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Israel Fires on Humanitarian Aid Flotilla

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Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
angellous_evangellous said:
Well, survivors are victims.

My Grandfather fought in WWII, and he's still alive. He fought at Normandy on D-day and all over Europe to help liberate them from the Nazis. The US Army helped him get a job and he worked for the government for the rest of his life. If he had been a Holocaust survivor that would have dramatically impacted the identity of our family.
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I was a little too young to fight in WW2, my father was a ships surgeon and my grandfather was Chief Scientific officer to the Royal Navy.
However I was not too young to be on the gestapo death list, had their invasion come to fruition.

I would say that that has not changed my life or identity one iota.
 
tumbleweed41

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Tanuki said:
The Jews weren't displaced and made homeless like the Palestinians - Their gripe in my view is justified! Yes the holocaust was a tragedy but it was nothing in comparison to the nikba - the effects of which are still being felt. And the Zionist state is still perpetrating those crimes they accuse the Nazis of!
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Look, I am as incised by the treatment of Palestinians as I am by the massive displacement of Jews in the years preceding and immediately following the formation of Israel. And the reactions of both sides of the issue are inhumane and cowardly.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
dogsgod said:
You can't be serious. What countries have been invaded and occupied by Iran in the last 300 years? What countries have they colonized? They must be building some kind of invisible empire on another planet that you are aware of.
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Do you know what "wannabe" means?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Terrywoodenpic said:
I was a little too young to fight in WW2, my father was a ships surgeon and my grandfather was Chief Scientific officer to the Royal Navy.
However I was not too young to be on the gestapo death list, had their invasion come to fruition.

I would say that that has not changed my life or identity one iota.
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Of course not.

Had you and your father suffered in a concentration camp, I suspect you would be a different person than you are today.

Our experiences make us who we are.
 
Tanuki

Tanuki

Taking a hiatus
DeitySlayer said:
Nah of course not, they were just gassed in their millions and shot like rats.
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Be flippant all you want. However, the fact remains that you are neglecting the atrocious crimes perpetrated by Israel on a daily basis against the Palestinians, all because everyone is to scared to question their take on history for fear of being labelled 'anti-semitic'.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Tanuki said:
The Jews weren't displaced and made homeless like the Palestinians -
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The whole history of the Jews, for the past 2000 years is of being dispersed made homeless and being abused and being thought a sub-race.

They do have a chip on their shoulder because of it. Just as the Palestinians rightly have today.

What happens to nations is held in our memories long after the facts and details can be accurately remembered.

We carry forward "Hates" far more easily than "loves" or "forgivenesses"

Today, with few exceptions, the state of Israel is hated by far more countries than those that are friendly towards them. Most of Europe has a love hate relationship with them. the Love is fueled by what Israel can offer but it is more than offset by its politics and the way it treats its neighbors.
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Tanuki said:
Well it's hardly going to be unbiased is it?? It's an Israeli newspaper after all.
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An Israeli newspaper which has been cited repeatedly through out this thread for some of its critical pieces about the flotilla issue by the members who criticize Israel in this thread.
so what if its an Israeli newspaper? it is a reliable newspaper, which does not shy away from publishing critical pieces on Israeli policies.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Tanuki said:
Well it's hardly going to be unbiased is it?? It's an Israeli newspaper after all.
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Well how 'bout Al Jazeera - alJazeera Magazine - “Just like China, Iran is emerging as a super power”

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/imperium/2010/03/29/us-iran-cold-war-warming

And here is Ahmadinejad claiming that Iran is a superpower:

“I declare officially the Iranian nation to be a true and real superpower”
http://cuminet.blogs.ku.dk/2009/02/10/ahmadinejad-iran-is-a-superpower/

My statement that Iran is a wannabe superpower is informed and justified.
 
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Tanuki

Tanuki

Taking a hiatus
Terrywoodenpic said:
The whole history of the Jews, for the past 2000 years is of being dispersed made homeless and being abused and being thought a sub-race.

They do have a chip on their shoulder because of it. Just as the Palestinians rightly have today.

What happens to nations is held in our memories long after the facts and details can be accurately remembered.

We carry forward "Hates" far more easily than "loves" or "forgivenesses"

Today, with few exceptions, the state of Israel is hated by far more countries than those that are friendly towards them. Most of Europe has a love hate relationship with them. the Love is fueled by what Israel can offer but it is more than offset by its politics and the way it treats its neighbors.
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Sorry but your logic there is tosh. That is like saying we in Scotland still have a chip on our shoulder due to England's actions during the interregnum at the beginning of the 1300s!

Israel is hated by most European nations because we in Europe don't have a blinkered view of history and let Israel off with doing whatever it pleases unlike the US. The Balfour declaration was the worst mistake this country (UK) ever constructed - apart from dismantling our Empire that is. When ben Gurion attacked British personnel in Jerusalam we should have hunted him down instead of allowing him to declare independence for the Zionist state. If we had most of the unnecessary wars in the Middle East would have been avoided.
 
Tanuki

Tanuki

Taking a hiatus
angellous_evangellous said:
Well how 'bout Al Jazeera - alJazeera Magazine - “Just like China, Iran is emerging as a super power”

US-Iran 'cold war' warming up | Al Jazeera Blogs

And here is Ahmadinejad claiming that Iran is a superpower:

“I declare officially the Iranian nation to be a true and real superpower”
Ahmadinejad: Iran is a superpower | CUMINet

My statement that Iran is a wannabe superpower is informed and justified.
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Well if it is a superpower good! It'll keep the US at bay like the USSR used to.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Tanuki said:
Well if it is a superpower good! It'll keep the US at bay like the USSR used to.
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hahaha

"wannabe" is the key word. They want to be the dominant superpower in the Middle East, and Israel and the US won't let that happen.

All Iran can do is threaten to make weapons grade unranium to negotiate economic benefits rather than start an international cold war.
 
dogsgod

dogsgod

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Is Haaretz presenting USA propaganda?

Iran is regional superpower even without nukes - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
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That Iran is a wannabe superpower is a joke. Iran's hand is forced, it's not their doing to have US army bases in neighboring countries, Iraq on one side and Afghanistan on the other. They would be complete fools not to arm themselves, they can obviously see what happens to countries that can't defend themselves. The US and Israeli propaganda machine claims Iran is a threat to world security, as if it's Iran that is the aggressor here, and people like you are gullible enough to swallow it whole.
 
Tanuki

Tanuki

Taking a hiatus
Yeah, why is it the US doesn't speak out against Israel having nukes, but the fact that Iran may abhors it!? Double standards - the US all over.
 
tumbleweed41

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Tanuki said:
Yeah, why is it the US doesn't speak out against Israel having nukes, but the fact that Iran may abhors it!? Double standards - the US all over.
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No. World standards according to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty as proposed by Ireland and Finland in 1950. Iran is a signatory of the Treaty but has been found to be in non-compliance. Israel never signed the Treaty, but is under pressure to open it's facilities to inspectors and to participate in the Treaty.
 
dogsgod

dogsgod

Well-Known Member
tumbleweed41 said:
No. World standards according to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty as proposed by Ireland and Finland in 1950. Iran is a signatory of the Treaty but has been found to be in non-compliance. Israel never signed the Treaty, but is under pressure to open it's facilities to inspectors and to participate in the Treaty.
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No, Iran has not been found to be in non-compliance.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/sep/25/iran-secret-nuclear-plant-inspections
 
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