Israel Fires on Humanitarian Aid Flotilla

[Tanuki]

Did I say that?


Terrorism is terrorism. I really do not give two hoots what the motivation may be.
Did you support the IRA when they were setting off bombs in England? After all, they were fighting for a 'just cause'. Or did you support the inhumane tactics used by the British government on Irish citizens?
Or perhaps you looked at both sides and thought that they were both wrong.

I like most Brits was and am against the IRA, unlike you Americans who bankrolled them and continue to do so. You spout off about the 'War on Terror' yet you support the biggest terrorist organisation in the UK. So much for our best ally.

The Palestinians are fighting for their freedom to get rid of the usurpers who have taken their land, unlike the IRA who only represent a small minority in Ulster - the majority of whose populace wishes to remain British.

Ps what irish citizens? The people in Ulster are British subjects, Ireland is a completely different country regardless of what Sinn Fein/IRA spouts!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Stupidity?

Brazen and willful stupidity.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I like most Brits was and am against the IRA, unlike you Americans who bankrolled them and continue to do so. You spout off about the 'War on Terror' yet you support the biggest terrorist organisation in the UK. So much for our best ally.

The Palestinians are fighting for their freedom to get rid of the usurpers who have taken their land, unlike the IRA who only represent a small minority in Ulster - the majority of whose populace wishes to remain British.

The hypocrisy is amazing.
The British (usurpers) takeover of Ireland sparked unrest for 800 years.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The hypocrisy is amazing.
The British (usurpers) takeover of Ireland sparked unrest for 800 years.

It's little more than a pathetic and predictable propaganda spigot. Give it a twist and out comes the virulent drivel.

 

[Tanuki]

The hypocrisy is amazing.
The British (usurpers) takeover of Ireland sparked unrest for 800 years.

Gotta love the Irish propaganda you spout!

 

[tumbleweed41]

The Palestinians are fighting for their freedom to get rid of the usurpers who have taken their land,

Study a little history.
No other peoples have ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before. The last government to control the region before the British was the Ottoman Empire (from 1517-1917). There was never a "Palestinian Nation". There were only Jewish Palistinians and Arab Palestinians living in an area once controlled by the Ottomans, and then controlled by the British. In the 1880's, Jewish immigrants began moving to Palestine and began working to convert swamps in an effort to make workable farmland and rid the area of malaria. Arab immigrants also moved to the area to do the same.

The British gave over 75% of that Mandate over to a non-Palestinian Arab by the name of Emir Abdullah, a Saudi. This later became Jordan.
(That's right. The British gave 75% of Palestine over to be the home of Arab Palestinians.)
The remaining 25% was given over to Palestinian Jews.

On May 14, 1948, the Palestinian Jews declared their sliver of Palestine to be their own State of Israel. On May 15, 1948, seven Arab countries invaded the new State. Egypt, Jordan (The Arab Palestinians), Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen.
Arab Palestinians living within the borders of Israel were encouraged to leave by the invaders, with promises of being given the conquered land.
These "Arab Palestinian Refugees" became the so called displaced Palestinians of today. Unfortunately, this invasion by Arab nations was the primary cause of the suffering of Arab Palestinians that we see today. And the victory of Israel over these invading armies, along with border tensions and wars with Jordan (Arab Palestine) and Egypt, have created the distrustful and oppressive attitude that Israel has for the so called "Palestinians". So there would be no Gaza Strip, or occupying refugees, if Israel had been given the same right to exist as Jordan.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Gotta love the Irish propaganda you spout!

Irish history is long and complex and unlike the dark ages in England most of it is known from Roman times onward.

People from England and other countries did indeed take parts of Ireland for them selves from time to time.

However England never understood the Irish Royaly. they could not understand how they could wipe out whole families, but still there were Kings. They never could understand that Irish kings were elected.

The mix or religion and soverign power is always disasterous, and so it was in Ireland.

This is no place for a debate on English and Irish relationships over the ages.
It just remains to say that it make the Jewish/ Arab one, look like a childs game.

 

[Tanuki]

if Israel had been given the same right to exist as Jordan.

Sorry but why should it have been given the right to exist at all? The only claim that the Jews have is contained in the Bible, and as a Muslim I believe it to have been altered anyway, so there is no foundation for a Jewish state, in my eyes.

Jordan was created as a way of thanking Abdullah for his support during WWI. His brother was also made King of Syria and later Iraq.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Sorry but why should it have been given the right to exist at all? The only claim that the Jews have is contained in the Bible, and as a Muslim I believe it to have been altered anyway, so there is no foundation for a Jewish state, in my eyes.

Jordan was created as a way of thanking Abdullah for his support during WWI. His brother was also made King of Syria and later Iraq.

Again, the hypocrisy is incredible.
75% of the British Mandate was given over to the Arab Palestinians, and 25% was given over to Jewish Palestinians.
Abdullah was given Trans-Jordan as a reward for his refraining from attacking the French when they overthrew his brother in Damascus, at the request of Churchill (The Infamous "Tea Party").
The remaining sliver of Palestine was given over to the Jewish Palestinians, partly as a reward for the help the Jewish Legion gave to the British is taking Palestine from the Ottomans.
Both Jordan and Israel have equal rights to exist.

 

[Tanuki]

Both Jordan and Israel have equal rights to exist.

Do they? Why does Israel have a right to exist?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Do they? Why does Israel have a right to exist?

Why does Jordan?

 

[Tanuki]

Jordan exists because of the loyalty shown by Abdullah Hashim. Israel however doesn't have such a right - it was a terrorist entity nothing more.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Jordan exists because of the loyalty shown by Abdullah Hashim. Israel however doesn't have such a right - it was a terrorist entity nothing more.

Abdullah's loyally was simple restraint. (Read here, Al Jazeera)
The Jewish Legion helped the British take Palestinian from the Ottomans.

Just Because you deny history does not make your rantings any less ignorant.

 

[sandandfoam]

Ps what irish citizens? The people in Ulster are British subjects, Ireland is a completely different country regardless of what Sinn Fein/IRA spouts!

Just FYI anyone born on this island is entitled to hold an Irish passport, those born anywhere on the island before 1949 are also entitled to a British passport

 

[tumbleweed41]

Note, while I defend Israel having the same right to exist as Jordan. And I believe the current Palestinian crisis is a direct result of the invasions perpetrated on Israel since it's inception. I do not at all defend the actions of the Israeli government concerning the treatment of Arab Palestinians, or it's unwarranted attack on a humanitarian mission in international waters.
In fact, this whole affair brings to mind an incident in 1967.
On June 8, 1967, while sailing in international waters, the US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was attacked by air and naval forces of the state of Israel. Of the Liberty's crew of 294, more than half were killed or wounded. More than 40 years later, survivors are still seeking justice.
The DoD has forbidden survivors from discussing anything about the attack.

 

[Tanuki]

Just FYI anyone born on this island is entitled to hold an Irish passport, those born anywhere on the island before 1949 are also entitled to a British passport

That still doesn't change the fact they are British subjects if from Ulster.

 

[sandandfoam]

Note, while I defend Israel having the same right to exist as Jordan. And I believe the current Palestinian crisis is a direct result of the invasions perpetrated on Israel since it's inception. I do not at all defend the actions of the Israeli government concerning the treatment of Arab Palestinians, or it's unwarranted attack on a humanitarian mission in international waters.
In fact, this whole affair brings to mind an incident in 1967.
On June 8, 1967, while sailing in international waters, the US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was attacked by air and naval forces of the state of Israel. Of the Liberty's crew of 294, more than half were killed or wounded. More than 40 years later, survivors are still seeking justice.
The DoD has forbidden survivors from discussing anything about the attack.

I think one of these survivors was on the Turkish ferry

 

[sandandfoam]

That still doesn't change the fact they are British subjects if from Ulster.

This is what I was responding to

Ireland is a completely different country regardless of what Sinn Fein/IRA spouts

 

[Smoke]

Yawn! That's all the Israelis ever say. It's a state founded through terrorism, yet condemns the Palestinians for supporting groups such as Hamas. What double standards!

If you condemn Israel but not the Palestinians, you've got a pretty obvious double standard yourself.

 

[Levite]

The Jews weren't displaced and made homeless like the Palestinians - Their gripe in my view is justified! Yes the holocaust was a tragedy but it was nothing in comparison to the nikba - the effects of which are still being felt.

What a bunch of anti-Jewish, bigoted claptrap. First of all, playing the "my suffering is bigger than your suffering" game is never productive.

Second of all, by your own previously stated logic, this "displacement" of Palestinians happend over 60 years ago! Why don't they just "get over it and move on?!"

Jews have a State. Get over it. Move on. It should be pretty easy for you, considering that Jews have one tiny, resource-poor state, and Arabs and Muslims have dozens of large, resource-rich states. Arabs and Muslims control the entirety of the Middle East, the Arabian peninsula, North Africa, and Ionian Asia. Israel is a snip of land barely as large as the US State of Delaware. Cry me a river, buddy.

This whole notion that somehow the Jewish people don't deserve their own country, but Muslim States and Arab countries (not to mention that most of the countries in Europe are technically Christian nations) are okay is just anti-Jewish bigotry. There has always been a Jewish presence in Israel. Granted, we were a minority for most of the last fifteen hundred years. But things change.

Israel is here, and not going anywhere. Best get used to it and start thinking about what to do now.