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It seems to me that many of the atheists on here are just here because they hate Christianity.
- Thread starter Reggie Miller
- Start date
I had to read that a few times before I got it, and I laughed for real.It's all true...*nods solemnly*
Just not all the time, or for all people.
I had to read that a few times before I got it, and I laughed for real.
Then my work here is done!!
In seriousness, I can speak only from what I've seen and experienced. I'm old enough (sadly!!) and well travelled enough for that to be a fair bit, but it's horribly limited when compared to the breadth of human experience. So I tend not to assume too much about groups of people. Or at least, to be honest enough with myself to split what is real and what is assumed.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Yes, God commanded us that. He also gave us the Ten Commandments. He also commanded Adam and Eve to not eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Now, are you going to ask why we do not obey? Oy vey.
So, are you against abortion and infantcide? Let's talk about today and the link I posted instead. This is more interesting to me that discussing the OT which I have addressed already and add to below. I am okay with abortion within limits and against almost all infantcide.
Much of what people are claiming against God is opinion. From the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus did not say anything against abortion or infantcide. Now, there may be other passages that I am not aware of but abortion is a difficult subject within the Christian church itself. There isn't a right or wrong answer. As for infantcide, it is against the law now.
From a conservative Christian view on abortion, the answer is here:
https://gotquestions.org/why-should-I-not-have-an-abortion.html
Yes, agree, Not all people treat their faith beliefs as a ' religion ' because of values being up for grabs.
The religious landscape has changed and shifted as the free religious market place now offers.
Some are just ' cafeteria christians ' ( pick and choose what they like discard what is disliked )
Many youths have disengaged being both distrustful of both the political and the religious, thus considering themselves as Not affiliated, but considering themselves as being a spiritual person ( new person inside )
Many pick up a broader transformation by choosing a broader spectrum cause in which to choose, having a list of issues to engage in, but issues too BIG to solve such as health or environmental Earth-Day issues.
Interesting that you say ' abortion within limits '.
What is a High Crime in God's eyes is abortion for selfish reasons such as: having an abortion just to get rid of an unwanted child. Such selfishness would include live birth abortions.
Where at Exodus 22:29-30 does it say ' sacrifice ' ?
They were to ' offer '. An offering does Not have to mean a burnt sacrifice.
At Exodus 13:2 the firstborn was to be 'sanctified' Not sacrificed.
As far as Judges 11:39 goes, the daughters of Israel went annually to visit with Jephthah's daughter.
She remained unmarried Not dead.
The Hebrew word Tanah means to 'praise' and Not lament as is used in the KJV Bibles.
Did Abraham sacrifice Isaac ? - Genesis 22:12
The fact that Abraham was willing to sacrifice Isaac was because Abraham was confident in the promised physical resurrection. In order for the promised ' seed ' ( Messiah ) to come through Isaac, then Isaac would have to be alive. All that was necessary was that Abraham was showing his full confidence in the resurrection.
- Hebrews 11:17-19
james bond
Well-Known Member
Jesus didn't discuss abortions on His Sermon on the Mount. No where is it stated that it is murder in God's eyes unless it is against the law. Thus, it isn't murder to have an abortion within the law. The reason behind it isn't considered. Live birth abortion would be considered murder.
Again, the conservative Christian view on abortion:
https://gotquestions.org/why-should-I-not-have-an-abortion.html
JustWondering
Jerk
It seems to me that many of the Christians on here are just here because they hate Athiesm. Am I wrong? Can any of you Christians say anything good about Atheism?
Kinda unfair. I can't say much good about atheism, and I'm an atheist. Course, I can't say much negative about it either, so perhaps that's the key positive??
JustWondering
Jerk
I disagree. I think Christianity and any other religion/belief system that holds invisible mythological/magical beings and forces as real are detrimental to our species future. How can people who think that an invisible man in the sky controls everything make rational decisions? Yea, I know, I'm the bad guy for bluntly stating my views like this but my point still stands. I view Christianity the same as I view Scientology, a bunch of BS made up to control and manipulate the masses, plain and simple.
Reggie Miller
Well-Known Member
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I think Christianity is wonderful. It would be even better if I ever encountered a Christian who actually practiced it.
McBell
Unbound
you present the exception as the rule.
Not buying it.
Why?
Because there are far more successful theists than your above accusation can account for.
Until his death Jesus was under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law.
True, Jesus did Not mention abortion in his Sermon on the Mount, but he also did Not mention being for it.
The " fruitage of the womb " is considered as a blessing from God at Psalms 127:3
Didn't Jesus refer to the Psalms at his Sermon on the Mount - Psalms 37:11; Psalms 24:3-4; Psalms 73:1
So, within God's Law an abortion for selfish reasons is a High Crime such as to have an abortion just to get rid of an unwanted child. In such a selfish case both mother and doctor play judge and jury as to whether the unborn should be executed or not.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Let me just say that both traditional Judaism, along with Christianity itself up until about two centuries ago, there wasn't the believe that early abortion was killing a person or was murder. In the Torah, if a person caused a woman to abort, the penalty was a heavy fine, not the death penalty. In Christianity, there was the concept of "quickening", namely that it was not a child per se until there was movement inside the womb.
Also, if it were to be classified as "murder", and if a woman voluntarily has a abortion, should she be put on trial for 1st degree murder, and then if convicted given the death penalty or life in prison?
As for me, I'm personally opposed to abortion but I am unwilling to tell a women with what she supposedly must do with that which is inside her.
Also, if it were to be classified as "murder", and if a woman voluntarily has a abortion, should she be put on trial for 1st degree murder, and then if convicted given the death penalty or life in prison?
As for me, I'm personally opposed to abortion but I am unwilling to tell a women with what she supposedly must do with that which is inside her.
Actually, at no point in the Bible is abortion mentioned at all. Neither the New nor the Original Testament. The closest thing is more like a property crime against the father. This is likely because babies weren't really considered alive until they drew breath. They had some primitive understandings back then.
I am fine with people opposing elective fetuside. I don't care why, I am more results based than ideological. Retrofitting anti-abortion ethics into Scripture though, isn't terribly honest. Recognition that your ethics have improved in the last few millenia.
Tom
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
In the bible, you only need to be a paranoid delusional husband accusing your wife of infidelity to get priests to force some fetus-killing potion down her throat.
This strikes me as brilliant psychology.
On the one hand, if she was lying and cheating the cup would be terrifying. Probably enough to get a determination before anybody drank anything. On the other hand, if she weren't, yelling "Let's go to the priest and I'll show you! Scumbag!" might serve a similar purpose.
And if the priest thought she was, he could put poison in it. If he had reason to believe differently he could put in herbal tea.
Frankly, I think it very sophisticated.
Tom
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
Since I am obviously agnostic, you may or may not care about my response. However, since almost everyone who calls himself/herself an "atheist" is actually agnostic, I think my response is valid. I enjoy studying the teachings of Jesus and think that he was a great man. I also believe that the teachings of Christianity: "loving your neighbor as yourself" and doing "unto others as you would have them do unto you" are good teachings of morality.