It seems to me that many of the atheists on here are just here because they hate Christianity.

[james bond]

Until his death Jesus was under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law.
True, Jesus did Not mention abortion in his Sermon on the Mount, but he also did Not mention being for it.
The " fruitage of the womb " is considered as a blessing from God at Psalms 127:3
Didn't Jesus refer to the Psalms at his Sermon on the Mount - Psalms 37:11; Psalms 24:3-4; Psalms 73:1
So, within God's Law an abortion for selfish reasons is a High Crime such as to have an abortion just to get rid of an unwanted child. In such a selfish case both mother and doctor play judge and jury as to whether the unborn should be executed or not.

Psalms 24:3-4 is one of my favorites.

I made up my mind on abortion when I was in college many moons ago. Despite Psalm 127:3, the argument you present is why I did not vote for pro-life. There are many reasons why people seek abortions, and to lump them all as murderers in the first degree is the most unfair thing I ever heard. Instead I am for sexual education and counseling and this should include the morality of abortion.

During Jesus' time, the Romans did horrible things to their infants such as letting them die from exposure or the same with their young children. I draw the line at the first trimester with abortions. After that, then it should be outlawed. That includes infantcide. All of these ethicists coming out today are wrong to allow sick children or children who are disabled not to be able to live out their lives. I do not want parents to judge whether their child can live or die. The child has rights. Of course, it also gets into when someone should be allowed to die by euthanasia. There are no easy answers. All of these things should and will be addressed.

I think that Jesus left these issues up to people to decide. He didn't make the law for them. He let the lawmakers make the law. Of course, he didn't think they were all fair and good laws so he did what he could.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

This strikes me as brilliant psychology.
On the one hand, if she was lying and cheating the cup would be terrifying. Probably enough to get a determination before anybody drank anything. On the other hand, if she weren't, yelling "Let's go to the priest and I'll show you! Scumbag!" might serve a similar purpose.
And if the priest thought she was, he could put poison in it. If he had reason to believe differently he could put in herbal tea.
Frankly, I think it very sophisticated.
Tom

Yeah, plus there's the bonus round, where an adulteress gets to be stoned to death per the Law, so ... hey, the delusional husband gets to kill two birds with one stone!

 

[Tumah]

It can't be that many atheists are on here just to hate on Christianity. Because if you ask the Muslims, most people hate on Islam.

So really everyone hates all the religions with persecution complexes.

 

[Altfish]

Yes Christianity provides commandments and moral guidelines for those people who can't tell the difference between right and wrong.

Have you read the 10 Commandments? 4 of them are about a jealous god

 

[ArtieE]

Have you read the 10 Commandments? 4 of them are about a jealous god

Of course. You have to get people to believe in your god first and establish your god as the ultimate authority to get people to do what he says.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Hippocratic Oath required the physician not to carry out abortions and Aristotle declared them immoral after quickening.

The original Hippocratic Oath only prohibited abortion by "pessary" (a device inserted into the vagina to deliver medication), and it prohibited doctors from doing any sort of surgery.

 

[Altfish]

Of course. You have to get people to believe in your god first and establish your god as the ultimate authority to get people to do what he says.

But what have they to do with morals?

 

[ArtieE]

But what have they to do with morals?

Never said they did.

 

[Altfish]

Never said they did.

Correct, and I never pointed out that you didn't

 

[ArtieE]

Correct, and I never pointed out that you didn't

Whatever.

 

[Altfish]

Whatever.

Grief I did 'like' your post, it wasn't an insult

 

[RedDragon94]

Am I wrong? Can any of you atheists say anything good about Christianity at all?

It's only cause Christianity is the major religion on our side of the world. If Islam takes precedence I'm sure they'll start talking about that.

 

[JustWondering]

you present the exception as the rule.
Not buying it.
Why?
Because there are far more successful theists than your above accusation can account for.

Yes, when some religious lunatic eventually gets their hands on weapons of mass destruction so they can usher in the apocalypse for their invisible and equally insane god/ideology I'm sure that'll be great for everybody.

You do realize Pakistan has a substantial nuclear arsenal and is full of religious zealots right?

How about the religious right science deniers in America who deny climate change and want no regulations on polluting our environment?

How about religions that deny modern medicine to it's followers?

How many religions gods demand people have as many kids as possible when it's obvious the world is already overpopulated and resources are limited?

There are a lot of religions that screw with peoples sense of reality and interfere with their ability to make rational decisions. That's not an opinion, its a fact.

 

[McBell]

That's not an opinion, its a fact.

your claim that theists are unable to make rational decisions is not a fact.
It is wishful thinking.

 

[JustWondering]

your claim that theists are unable to make rational decisions is not a fact.
It is wishful thinking.

Would you consider handling poisonous snakes a rational thing to do?

 

[JustWondering]

 

[McBell]

Would you consider handling poisonous snakes a rational thing to do?

I did not state that there is no irrationality in religion.
I stated that your claim of no rationality of theists to be a big steaming pile of bull ****.

 

[JustWondering]

I did not state that there is no irrationality in religion.
I stated that your claim of no rationality of theists to be a big steaming pile of bull ****.

Of course theists are capable of making rational decisions, my argument is that religion can make otherwise rational people do irrational if not completely bat s**t crazy things. I guess I should have worded my original argument better to avoid this confusion. The most rational decision I made when I was a theist for example was to become an atheist. So yes, theists are capable of making rational decisions, but that wasn't my intended argument.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Actually, at no point in the Bible is abortion mentioned at all. Neither the New nor the Original Testament. The closest thing is more like a property crime against the father. This is likely because babies weren't really considered alive until they drew breath. They had some primitive understandings back then.
I am fine with people opposing elective fetuside. I don't care why, I am more results based than ideological. Retrofitting anti-abortion ethics into Scripture though, isn't terribly honest. Recognition that your ethics have improved in the last few millenia.
Tom

Even if the word abortion is Not used, the Hebrew word ' yohtse'th' in Psalms 144:14 is from a root meaning to come out. Sure there can be unavoidable abortion (coming out), but Exodus 21:22-25 shows harm to the unborn carries with it ' life for life ' showing the unborn is a life. A life not yet born if deliberately harmed carried with it capital punishment for the one harming the unborn.- Exodus 23:26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Psalms 24:3-4 is one of my favorites.
I made up my mind on abortion when I was in college many moons ago. Despite Psalm 127:3, the argument you present is why I did not vote for pro-life. There are many reasons why people seek abortions, and to lump them all as murderers in the first degree is the most unfair thing I ever heard. Instead I am for sexual education and counseling and this should include the morality of abortion.
During Jesus' time, the Romans did horrible things to their infants such as letting them die from exposure or the same with their young children. I draw the line at the first trimester with abortions. After that, then it should be outlawed. That includes infantcide. All of these ethicists coming out today are wrong to allow sick children or children who are disabled not to be able to live out their lives. I do not want parents to judge whether their child can live or die. The child has rights. Of course, it also gets into when someone should be allowed to die by euthanasia. There are no easy answers. All of these things should and will be addressed.
I think that Jesus left these issues up to people to decide. He didn't make the law for them. He let the lawmakers make the law. Of course, he didn't think they were all fair and good laws so he did what he could.

Yes, the secular law makers do make the law - Romans 13, but when a secular law is out of harmony with Scripture - Exodus 21:22-25 - then Christians are to obey God rather then men - Acts of the Apostles 5:29
In other words, the secular authority stands in a relative position to God's absolute position.
When there is conflict between the two, then the Christian chooses God's authority as the final say.
Abortion for selfish reasons will always be wrong in God's eyes.