Italian writer against women choosing the bear: hating men has become fashionable

[Revoltingest]

See post #106. You have the courts (and all the stress that comes with it) to deal with when you are attacked by a man. You don't have that when attacked by a bear.

Post #106 is another pair of true statements,
albeit suggestive, that convey no real information.

I'm getting the impression that you believe some
women have good reason to fear all men. And
perhaps this is justified? This differs from what
I infer from the OP, which is that it's not a real
phobia....just feminist histrionics.
This thread is hard to get a handle on.

 

[crossfire]

"Hold some validity" could mean it happens
often or seldom. It's really making no claim at
all....except perhaps to suggest women normally
aren't, but without actually claiming it.
What fraction of the time are women not
believed when a man attacked them?

When I get home in the morning I will post a link to a local news story from a few years ago about a young rape victim that was not only disbelieved by several layers of law enforcement, but gaslighted and ordered by the court to undergo psychological brainwashing that it never happened, and was hit with a fine for filing a false report. Trouble is, the Denver Police caught the rapist in their area and he had a picture of her tied up with her ID in the picture. Oops. How many other similar stories are there like this that get buried in this manner?

The story is an eye-opener. What is it in our culture that makes us disbelieve and even gaslight young women who are victims of sexual assault? Why is everyone so quick to abandon their regular investigative procedures and blame the young woman as a liar and seek to punish them for reporting the crime at the merest suggestion they might be lying? What is it that makes trained investigators ignore hard evidence right there in front of them and cling to speculation she is lying?

 

[crossfire]

Post #106 is another pair of true statements,
albeit suggestive, that convey no real information.

I'm getting the impression that you believe some
women have good reason to fear all men. And
perhaps this is justified? This differs from what
I infer from the OP, which is that it's not a real
phobia....just feminist histrionics.
This thread is hard to get a handle on.

No, it's more a matter of young women not being believed when they are sexually assaulted and being punished in one manner or another for speaking up about it.

 

[Revoltingest]

When I get home in the morning I will post a link to a local news story from a few years ago about a young rape victim that was not only disbelieved by several layers of law enforcement, but gaslighted and ordered by the court to undergo psychological brainwashing that it never happened, and was hit with a fine for filing a false report. Trouble is, the Denver Police caught the rapist in their area and he had a picture of her tied up with her ID in the picture. Oops. How many other similar stories are there like this that get buried in this manner?

You're making the claim, but asking
me about the quantity / frequency?

The story is an eye-opener. What is it in our culture that makes us disbelieve and even gaslight young women who are victims of sexual assault? Why is everyone so quick to abandon their regular investigative procedures and blame the young woman as a liar and seek to punish them for reporting the crime at the merest suggestion they might be lying?

"Everyone" blames them?
I find this utterly untrue.

What is it that makes trained investigators ignore hard evidence right there in front of them and cling to speculation she is lying?

This appears to be an argument that if it
happens to some, then it happens to all.
What next....if some men assault women
then all do, or at least might?

 

[Revoltingest]

No, it's more a matter of young women not being believed when they are sexually assaulted and being punished in one manner or another for speaking up about it.

You have no qualifiers....no room for exceptions.
Would you say that every cop, every investigator,
every judge, everyone disbelieves & punishes
the victim? This is the worst kind of prejudice.
(I'm avoiding the "b" word.)

 

[Estro Felino]

Is it? What about outside the woods? How many women are attacked in the woods and never report it or are unable to report it?

What do you mean by attacked?
Raped? Beaten up?

The question isn't just about being hit on and this where I think the article misses the point. A lot of females are traumatized by violent male behavior. Not as many are traumatized by violent bear behavior. Meeting a bear in the woods would be terrifying regardless, but the likelihood of being attacked by the bear is fairly low.

Random women in the wood can be as violent as men.

This isn't a matter of hating men, but a matter of male violence being a problem people seem very willing to ignore.

Yes. It is a matter of hating men.
Since nobody says that a random woman can be as dangerous and as unpredictable.

That said, harassment by males is also a problem. Some people may enjoy being catcalled or harrassed, but for those that don't enjoy it it is emotionally traumatizing, especially while alone in the woods where the possibility of being assaulted is higher than in public.

Being hit on a man is something insignificant.
Being wounded by a bear is traumatizing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sexualizing murders is what feminism does.

Yeah, no.
That's basically middle aged women with crushes on serial killers, but that's in a (mostly, I've heard of some women being inappropriate over it) innocent. It's also some very truly ****ed up people, and in a violent and dangerous way (like snuff films and serial killers like John Wayne Gacey).

 

[crossfire]

You have no qualifiers....no room for exceptions.
Would you say that every cop, every investigator,
every judge, everyone disbelieves & punishes
the victim? This is the worst kind of prejudice.
(I'm avoiding the "b" word.)

OK, it's not everyone. Not everyone is beguiled by this cultural nomos that lulls people away from rational thinking. However, it does seem to be rather pervasive if three or more levels of police and government dropped the ball and actively gaslit this young woman into saying it didn't happen. People can obviously pick up on it, at least unconsciously, in order for this gaslighting behavior to manifest, as well as for the wariness of the young women who are the target of it.

Studying the nomos can be difficult, as it can be rather hard to grasp as it resides just below the level of consciousness, in the area where it is most powerful.

One might make the claim that it does not exist, but then you would have a visible effect without a cause. Pick your poison. What is behind this behavior?

 

[Estro Felino]

That's not a new ideology. Certain philosophies of feminism were espousing this when I was at Uni (early to mid nineties)

That's very interesting. What I meant is that now it has gone mainstream.

 

[PureX]

Would you say that US black men are a danger to women?

Black men, white men, red men, yellow men, green men, whatever. Men tend to respond to their frustrations with other humans, with violence. And in the US, there is a cultural meme of excessive violence.

 

[Revoltingest]

One might make the claim that it does not exist, but then you would have a visible effect without a cause. Pick your poison. What is behind this behavior?

Prejudice & a knee jerk leap to belief are behind
such behavior.
Not only females are dis-believed. Males are often
presumed guilty when accused of sexual assault or
impropriety by females. (This is especially so in
universities.) Yet we see that when accusations are
false, & consequences for perjury are rare.

The legal system is a meat grinder, with presumption of
guilt being the standard regarding civil forfeiture, & the
IRS. All sexes / genders are royally ******.

Our job is to be kind, thoughtful, & to treat others fairly.

 

[Stevicus]

When I get home in the morning I will post a link to a local news story from a few years ago about a young rape victim that was not only disbelieved by several layers of law enforcement, but gaslighted and ordered by the court to undergo psychological brainwashing that it never happened, and was hit with a fine for filing a false report. Trouble is, the Denver Police caught the rapist in their area and he had a picture of her tied up with her ID in the picture. Oops. How many other similar stories are there like this that get buried in this manner?

The story is an eye-opener. What is it in our culture that makes us disbelieve and even gaslight young women who are victims of sexual assault? Why is everyone so quick to abandon their regular investigative procedures and blame the young woman as a liar and seek to punish them for reporting the crime at the merest suggestion they might be lying? What is it that makes trained investigators ignore hard evidence right there in front of them and cling to speculation she is lying?

Is this the case you're referring to? An Unbelievable Story of Rape

I read the article a few years ago, and I found the police's conduct to be outrageous (which is no great surprise). She should have gotten more than just a $150,000 settlement. They should have paid more, and the officers involved should have been fired. Apparently, they were not.

 

[Revoltingest]

Black men, white men, red men, yellow men, green men, whatever. Men tend to respond to their frustrations with other humans, with violence. And in the US, there is a cultural meme of excessive violence.

The issue is put in a different light when race is addressed.
People talk of men being dangerous based upon incidents.
Yet black men are statistically (in USA) more likely to be
violent. Yet the accusers of men won't apply their rationale
to this.
In short...
It's OK to be misandrist, but not racist.

 

[Estro Felino]

Prejudice & a knee jerk leap to belief are behind
such behavior.
Not only females are dis-believed. Males are often
presumed guilty when accused of sexual assault or
impropriety by females. (This is especially so in
universities.) Yet we see that when accusations are
false, & consequences for perjury are rare.

This is also due to the fact that in the USA people are allowed to lie in court and they are allowed to file false accusations.

Accusing a man of rape is a double-edged sword in Italy because any attorney can destroy the lying woman in court, by providing with the alibi and the scientific evidence (example: the surveillance camera that shows that on that day the defendant was in another city).

And in that case the woman will be sentenced to jail for defamation and forced to pay a big compensation.

The American law encourages so many liars to destroy a man's reputation...
in the era of "all men are rapists".

The legal system is a meat grinder, with presumption of
guilt being the standard regarding civil forfeiture, & the
IRS. All sexes / genders are royally ******.

Precisely. What I have just said.

Our job is to be kind, thoughtful, & to treat others fairly.

Ditto.

 

[Wu Wei]

This is also due to the fact that in the USA people are allowed to lie in court and they are allowed to file false accusations.

Accusing a man of rape is a double-edged sword in Italy because any attorney can destroy the lying woman in court, by providing with the alibi and the scientific evidence (example: the surveillance camera that shows that on that day the defendant was in another city).

And in that case the woman will be sentenced to jail for defamation and forced to pay a big compensation.

The American law encourages so many liars to destroy a man's reputation...
in the era of "all men are rapists".

Precisely. What I have just said.

Ditto.

Question.
USA the burden of proof is on the accused
Aka innocent until proven guilty.

Who is the burden of oroof on in Italy, the accuser or the accused?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This is Yasmina Pani, a very outspoken writer and teacher who writes about linguistics.

That cleavage is too distracting to try and follow the vid.

 

[PureX]

The issue is put in a different light when race is addressed.
People talk of men being dangerous based upon incidents.
Yet black men are statistically (in USA) more likely to be
violent. Yet the accusers of men won't apply their rationale
to this.
In short...
It's OK to be misandrist, but not racist.

For obvious reasons, black men are more likely to become frustrated with the course of life as they are experiencing it. And so would be more likely to respond violently in that frustration. It has nothing to do with skin color except that they are living in a culture that treats them badly because of their skin color. Causing the increased frustration and anger.

 

[Estro Felino]

Question.
USA the burden of proof is on the accused
Aka innocent until proven guilty.

Who is the burden of oroof on in Italy, the accuser or the accused?

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit.
The burden of proof is on the plaintiff.

 

[crossfire]

Is this the case you're referring to? An Unbelievable Story of Rape

I read the article a few years ago, and I found the police's conduct to be outrageous (which is no great surprise). She should have gotten more than just a $150,000 settlement. They should have paid more, and the officers involved should have been fired. Apparently, they were not.

Yeah, that's the one. I'll give links to the local paper story that I have saved in my bookmarks when I get to my home computer.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The most disturbing und unsettling murder I can think of is the Scazzi case.
A 15 year old girl named Sarah went to visit her cousin .
Her cousin Sabrina strangled her to death in an act of rage due to jealousy.

So...all this trend that random men in the wood (who couldn't care less about you) are dangerous...well...

it's a trend.

It's not a trend.

It's just a thought experiment. And a very revealing one, at that.