Italian writer against women choosing the bear: hating men has become fashionable

[SkepticThinker]

What I mean is that murders have a motive.
Murderers don't kill random people.
Whether they are men or women.

Sexualizing murders is what feminism does.

Um, what?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Post #106 is another pair of true statements,
albeit suggestive, that convey no real information.

I'm getting the impression that you believe some
women have good reason to fear all men. And
perhaps this is justified? This differs from what
I infer from the OP, which is that it's not a real
phobia....just feminist histrionics.
This thread is hard to get a handle on.

I was sitting around one day last week wondering what all this bear hype is all about, and then I came across this on a friend's Facebook page, and it became a little clearer to me what this thought experiment is really about (sorry in advance, she didn't provide her source) ....



"There is a question going around the internet, the original question is would you rather have your daughter in the woods with a random unknown man or a random bear. It's been morphed a bit now that it's been shared to would you as a woman rather be in the woods with a random unknown man OR a bear.

Almost without fail, posed this question the answer of the women/mothers have been a bear and it has men feeling some type of way that women almost universally trust a bear more than a strange man. But here are the top 10 reasons women have given for choosing the bear over the man:

10. No one would question me about what I was wearing when the bear attacked me.
9. No one would accuse me of liking the bear attack
8. A bear's motives are easier to understand.
7. A bear won't accuse me of leading them on by being nice to them.
6. I would not be forced to carry the bear's babies to term in 27 states.
5. The bear will either kill me or leave me alone; there are not 400 other horrible ways a bear can hurt me.
4. Bears do not traffic women.
3. A bear's friends won't come out to say how nice the bear is and how attacking me is ruining is life.
2. No one will question if the bear attack really happened.
1. The bear sees me as a human being.

Here are a few others that are sad but true:

-If I survive the bear attack I will not have to see the bear at family reunions
-A bear would not film it and send it to his friends

Now let's talk. Soooo many males are mad about this. I have seen some comments replying to a woman choosing the bear that make my skin crawl. Most of them give off vibes that tell me they are the reason we choose the bear. When this question was posed to women, 9 out of every 10 chose the bear. We cannot agree about hair colour, makeup or Taylor Swift, but we almost entirely as a gender agree about this.

We understand that the bear may kill us. We understand that there are fates worse than dying. A bear will simply kill or ignore us.

Statistically, women are safer with bears than men. In the last 4 years, seven women were killed by bears and 15 were attacked and survived. Do you want to know the rape/murder statistics for the same time range of men killing/raping women?

We are safer with a bear.

Sorry, not sorry."

 

[Estro Felino]

It's not a trend.

It's just a thought experiment. And a very revealing one, at that.

Exactly.
It's an experiment that uses misandry.
It has nothing to do with reality.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Exactly.
It's an experiment that uses misandry.
It has nothing to do with reality.

It does though.
See the post directly above yours.

 

[crossfire]

"Hold some validity" could mean it happens
often or seldom. It's really making no claim at
all....except perhaps to suggest women normally
aren't, but without actually claiming it.
What fraction of the time are women not
believed when a man attacked them?

When I get home in the morning I will post a link to a local news story from a few years ago about a young rape victim that was not only disbelieved by several layers of law enforcement, but gaslighted and ordered by the court to undergo psychological brainwashing that it never happened, and was hit with a fine for filing a false report. Trouble is, the Denver Police caught the rapist in their area and he had a picture of her tied up with her ID in the picture. Oops. How many other similar stories are there like this that get buried in this manner?

The story is an eye-opener. What is it in our culture that makes us disbelieve and even gaslight young women who are victims of sexual assault? Why is everyone so quick to abandon their regular investigative procedures and blame the young woman as a liar and seek to punish them for reporting the crime at the merest suggestion they might be lying? What is it that makes trained investigators ignore hard evidence right there in front of them and cling to speculation she is lying?

Stevicus posted an in-depth article about the case here:

Is this the case you're referring to? An Unbelievable Story of Rape

I read the article a few years ago, and I found the police's conduct to be outrageous (which is no great surprise). She should have gotten more than just a $150,000 settlement. They should have paid more, and the officers involved should have been fired. Apparently, they were not.

Here's the promised link to one of the local newspaper articles:

Rape victim suing Lynnwood police | HeraldNet.com

LYNNWOOD — The victim of a serial rapist is now suing the Lynnwood police detectives who once accused her of lying about being sexually assaulted.

www.heraldnet.com

 

[Estro Felino]

It does though.
See the post directly above yours.

Reality is that random men in the wood are not dangerous.
They can be, statistically, dangerous.
Five percent.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Reality is that random men in the wood are not dangerous.

Did you read the post I referenced?

They can be, statistically, dangerous.

They are statistically dangerous.

Five percent.

Sorry, what?
I don't think you read the post I just referenced.

 

[Stevicus]

10. No one would question me about what I was wearing when the bear attacked me.
9. No one would accuse me of liking the bear attack
8. A bear's motives are easier to understand.
7. A bear won't accuse me of leading them on by being nice to them.
6. I would not be forced to carry the bear's babies to term in 27 states.
5. The bear will either kill me or leave me alone; there are not 400 other horrible ways a bear can hurt me.
4. Bears do not traffic women.
3. A bear's friends won't come out to say how nice the bear is and how attacking me is ruining is life.
2. No one will question if the bear attack really happened.
1. The bear sees me as a human being.

Well, there might be some things to question about a human attacked by a bear. Someone might ask if the bear had cubs and the human was getting too close. Some might ask if the attack victim had food on them or tried to feed the bear. Feeding bears is a big no-no, so if someone does that and gets attacked, then there may not be much public sympathy. There was also a recent incident where a couple of tourists tried to take selfies with a bear and were seriously injured in an attack.

So, there are instances where a human might be attacked by a bear but still be questioned and perhaps even partly blamed for doing dumb things or not taking proper precautions.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well, there might be some things to question about a human attacked by a bear. Someone might ask if the bear had cubs and the human was getting too close. Some might ask if the attack victim had food on them or tried to feed the bear. Feeding bears is a big no-no, so if someone does that and gets attacked, then there may not be much public sympathy. There was also a recent incident where a couple of tourists tried to take selfies with a bear and were seriously injured in an attack.

So, there are instances where a human might be attacked by a bear but still be questioned and perhaps even partly blamed for doing dumb things or not taking proper precautions.

I think that's covered by #3: 8. A bear's motives are easier to understand.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Considering that you are from a country where women often file false rape allegations, I consider any data coming from your country absolutely not reliable about rape.

No, I'm not. This is not a common problem anywhere that I'm aware of.

As far as I can tell, it's just an assertion you keep making, for some reason.

What country do you think I'm from? In which countries do you think that women "often file false rape allegations?"
In my experience and research, rapes are drastically under-reported I didn't report mine, unfortunately, because I was shy, ashamed and afraid I wouldn't be believed and was afraid to have to see my accuser in person again.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, I'm not. This is not a common problem anywhere that I'm aware of.

As far as I can tell, it's just an assertion you keep making, for some reason.

What country do you think I'm from? In which countries do you think that women "often file false rape allegations?"
In my experience and research, rapes are drastically under-reported I didn't report mine, unfortunately, because I was shy, ashamed and afraid I wouldn't be believed and was afraid to have to see my accuser in person again.

United States.
Okay...you're from Canada. But I wager you didn't read the article, which explains it all.
I expect people to discuss about the article.

 

[SkepticThinker]

United States.

Why do you think false rape allegations are a common problem in the United States?

Okay...you're from Canada. But I wager you didn't read the article, which explains it all.
I expect people to discuss about the article.

I wager you didn't even read my response just now, given that you totally ignored what I just said. You brought up false rape allegations. And now you seem to want to run away from your assertions.


I think the article's author completely missed the point, as another poster already noted. As did I, in a more roundabout way.

 

[Magic Man]

What do you mean by attacked?
Raped? Beaten up?

Random women in the wood can be as violent as men.

A random woman technically CAN be as violent as a man, but statistically, that's extremely unlikely. That's the whole point of this.

Yes. It is a matter of hating men.
Since nobody says that a random woman can be as dangerous and as unpredictable.

No, it is not a matter of hating men, and a random woman is not as dangerous or as unpredictable as a man. There's a reason so many women carry mace, try to not walk to their cars alone at night, carry a key between their fingers, and are generally anxious when alone with men they don't know. They don't hate men; they've just had enough bad experiences with them to be very wary of them.

The whole point of this exercise is to show how prevalent those bad experiences are. Arguing about the specific details and probabilities is besides the point. What you should take from the response of women is that there are a lot of instances of men behaving badly (to put it mildly) toward women. What you shouldn't take from it is that women hate men, and the response shouldn't be to explain to women why they're wrong.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, it is not a matter of hating men, and a random woman is not as dangerous or as unpredictable as a man. There's a reason so many women carry mace, try to not walk to their cars alone at night, carry a key between their fingers, and are generally anxious when alone with men they don't know. They don't hate men; they've just had enough bad experiences with them to be very wary of them.

The whole point of this exercise is to show how prevalent those bad experiences are. Arguing about the specific details and probabilities is besides the point. What you should take from the response of women is that there are a lot of instances of men behaving badly (to put it mildly) toward women. What you shouldn't take from it is that women hate men, and the response shouldn't be to explain to women why they're wrong.

^^^^ Winner, winner, chicken dinner ! ^^^^^^


Very well stated.

 

[Estro Felino]

A random woman technically CAN be as violent as a man, but statistically, that's extremely unlikely. That's the whole point of this.

I asked a question.
What do you mean by "a man can attack you"?
Beat up? Rape?

No, it is not a matter of hating men, and a random woman is not as dangerous or as unpredictable as a man. There's a reason so many women carry mace, try to not walk to their cars alone at night, carry a key between their fingers, and are generally anxious when alone with men they don't know. They don't hate men; they've just had enough bad experiences with them to be very wary of them.

Dangerous men can be violent to both women and men, equally.
So why should women feel privileged in this victimization?

The whole point of this exercise is to show how prevalent those bad experiences are. Arguing about the specific details and probabilities is besides the point. What you should take from the response of women is that there are a lot of instances of men behaving badly (to put it mildly) toward women. What you shouldn't take from it is that women hate men, and the response shouldn't be to explain to women why they're wrong.

My thread is being hijacked, I guess.

I posted an article about a writer, an intelligent person stating that many women chose bear because misandry has taken over feminism.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I asked a question.
What do you mean by "a man can attack you"?
Beat up? Rape?

Dangerous men can be violent to both women and men, equally.
So why should women feel privileged in this victimization?

Because they are most often the victim!!

My thread is being hijacked, I guess.


I posted an article about a writer, an intelligent person stating that many women chose bear because misandry has taken over feminism.

Obviously this poster, myself and others disagree with that writer's sentiments, and have corrected them toward what we think is the actual problem being pointed out with the bear-in-the-woods example.

I find it strange that you have nothing to say about that.

 

[Magic Man]

I asked a question.
What do you mean by "a man can attack you"?
Beat up? Rape?

That wasn't me.

Dangerous men can be violent to both women and men, equally.
So why should women feel privileged in this victimization?

They don't feel privileged. Men aren't attacked by other men in this same way. Male on male violence is a very different thing.

My thread is being hijacked, I guess.

I posted an article about a writer, an intelligent person stating that many women chose bear because misandry has taken over feminism.

Yes, and she is wrong. Some of us are pointing out why and the problem with your assertions too. Misandry has not taken over feminism. Women saying they'd choose the bear is not misandry. Responding to those women by telling them they're wrong and that they just hate men is the wrong response. The right response is to listen to them and realize what their reactions tell us about the world - that a whole lot of women have a whole lot of bad experiences with men.

 

[crossfire]

A random woman technically CAN be as violent as a man, but statistically, that's extremely unlikely. That's the whole point of this.

No, it is not a matter of hating men, and a random woman is not as dangerous or as unpredictable as a man. There's a reason so many women carry mace, try to not walk to their cars alone at night, carry a key between their fingers, and are generally anxious when alone with men they don't know. They don't hate men; they've just had enough bad experiences with them to be very wary of them.

The whole point of this exercise is to show how prevalent those bad experiences are. Arguing about the specific details and probabilities is besides the point. What you should take from the response of women is that there are a lot of instances of men behaving badly (to put it mildly) toward women. What you shouldn't take from it is that women hate men, and the response shouldn't be to explain to women why they're wrong.

Thank you for stating this succinctly.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, and she is wrong. Some of us are pointing out why and the problem with your assertions too. Misandry has not taken over feminism. Women saying they'd choose the bear is not misandry. Responding to those women by telling them they're wrong and that they just hate men is the wrong response. The right response is to listen to them and realize what their reactions tell us about the world - that a whole lot of women have a whole lot of bad experiences with men.

This is based upon perceptions.

I have personal perceptions too.
For example...watching this video, I realize than women in America tend to be much more "masculine" and "fierce" than men.
I see American men are very sweet...

 

[crossfire]

I asked a question.
What do you mean by "a man can attack you"?
Beat up? Rape?

Dangerous men can be violent to both women and men, equally.
So why should women feel privileged in this victimization?

Privileged in this victimization? Men are more likely to be believed than women. That is the whole point of the bear vs men scenario. It is not about misandry.

My thread is being hijacked, I guess.

I posted an article about a writer, an intelligent person stating that many women chose bear because misandry has taken over feminism.

The writer is wrong.