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Italy 50% mortality rate with COVID-19

Cooky

Veteran Member
What I'm seeing a lot of in this thread is religious mathematics.

Start with the answer.
Carefully select data and functions that support the answer. Ignore all the rest.

Voila!

@Landon Caeli
Tom

"We need to be careful in interpreting the case fatality rate of an ongoing outbreak

Once an epidemic or outbreak is over, we can rely on aggregate statistics of cases and deaths to calculate the case fatality rate.

But we need to be careful with how to interpret the CFR during an outbreak because the outcome (recovery or death) of a large number of cases is still unknown.

If today we calculate the CFR of the coronavirus disease based on the number of people who have died from it, and the number of people diagnosed with having the virus, we will be aggregating people at different stages in the development of the disease. Some people may be in the early stages of the illness; others towards the end.

As explained above, in the case of COVID-19 the time from symptom onset to death ranged from 2 to 8 weeks.35 This means that there are many who are sick and will die, but have not died yet.

Though they may be now be counted as confirmed cases, those that will go on to die will not yet be included in the current count of the number deaths. This means we would underestimate the eventual case fatality rate of the infected population.

Or in other words, the case fatality rate during an outbreak would be just as high as the eventualcase fatality rate of this population if none of the current cases die. This would be wrong to assume.

This is what happened during the SARS-CoV outbreak in 2003: the CFR was initially reported to be 3-5% during the early stages of the outbreak, but had risen to around 10% by the end.36,37


Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) – Statistics and Research
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
@Landon Caeli

I was just talking on-line with my wife's cousin in Trapani, and she says it's like a ghost town there, and she posted some pictures to prove it. So far at least, our extended family there is doing OK, and hopefully it'll stay that way.

You take care too.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
This is sensational news.

Coronavirus Explodes in Italy, Threatening Europe. Can It Be Contained?

Likewise, this article has sensational language ("explodes" "threatening") but gives actual figures within the subtitle. It also gives a realistic report of over 50000 people quarantined within their homes.

Italian authorities have locked down several towns and villages after more than 150 cases of the deadly coronavirus were confirmed and three people have died.

Population of Italy: 60,461,826

(150/60,461,826) * 100 would be our percent.

Leaving out only three people have died (I dunno how recent this is, but again let's stop the hysteria and I'll tell you why below), and just focusing on afflicted, that number is 2.480904232035599e-4 %. That is 2.480904232035599 x 10^-4 or 0.00002480904232035599% of people even get it. I may have goofed on the decimal place, but it's still absurd. And of that 150, only 2% of that percent have died. Not 50%.

Update: Adjusting for the new numbers, the 50% (even if it is 50% of those contracted, it is not REALLY 50%). What did they say 17,000? 20,000 now? Let's say 20k. 0.033078723093808% has been afflicted. Since despite the earlier quarantine, the number has jumped from 150 to 17,000+ I would say quarantining has backfired, wouldn't you? Better that people flee to the beaches or wilderness or something.

But if we aren't fearful, aren't we putting lives at risk?

Why shouldn't we be fearful? Isn't dangerous to not take this seriously? Well, let's imagine I light a cigarette in a crowded theatre. Now suppose some goofball yells FIRE, and people panic? What happens? People get stomped.

What happens during a panic is far worse than any disease.
1. People stockpile food. This creates mass starvation.
2. Supposing they are allowed to seek medical treatment, people flood hospitals. Not only does the increase the odds of hypochondriacs actually contracting the disease since those sick are in the same space as those who think they are sick, but those who aren't really sick create issues when someone for instance falls down the stairs or is dehydrated or half-starved. Shorthanded medical treatment is a public danger. If we had dedicated treatment centers just for that, sure go ahead, but instead they affect other medicine.
3. When people get into a state of panic, they literally hurt each other. The scapegoat mindset is in full effect, and people fight over anything from supposedly having more food to supposedly being healthy from receiving secret treatment.
4. The risk of people hurting each other rises the closer proximity they get, and the more frantic the become about not being able to go outside. They also are more likely to spread disease. Every year, we do like we've been doing and a percent of us die. Why does China have such a huge number? I'll give you a hint:
travelers-queue-up-to-board-multiple-trains-for-destinations-china-picture-id465621103

Still think having people packed indoors unable to get away is a good idea?

For the record, during the Black Plague closely-knit communities where people never traveled was a thing too. During the Spanish Flu of 1918, many people were close together in trenches and had compromised immune systems by the time the war ended.

50,000 people die of the flu each year, just in America. 650,000 die worldwide. No quarantine, no closed facilities. Maybe they should be, but this is not my call. My call is to call out on scare news.

Could this become a pandemic? I suppose if people were really unsafe, but that wouldn't happen normally. Not unless people were all locked indoors together or something... In countries where towns have spaced apart houses disease is slowed down from moving from person to person and people gradually recover.

If people panic on the other hand, those that live get caught up in violence or other issues.
 
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Cooky

Veteran Member
Update for today... Again, completed cases are STILL roughly 50 / 50 - death to recovery... I was hoping that the numbers of all completed cases would have lead to more "recoveries" by now, in relation to deaths... But it's holding fairly steady.

20200316_202619.jpg
 
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Cooky

Veteran Member
50,000 people die of the flu each year, just in America. 650,000 die worldwide. No quarantine, no closed facilities. Maybe they should be, but this is not my call. My call is to call out on scare news.

At 1% :
"Between 750,000 and 1.1 million Americans may die of this disease before it runs its course. The latter figure is equal to all the U.S. dead in World War II and on both sides in the Civil War."

"if Fauci’s 1% mortality rate and Lipsitch’s estimate prove on target, between 3 billion and 5 billion people on earth will be infected, and 30 million to 50 million will die, a death toll greater than that of the Spanish Flu of 1918."

Will the Coronavirus Kill the New World Order?
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
According to the above chart, of you get coronavirus, you have a 50% chance of survival. And a 50% chance of dying.

This is unprecedented.
We can't look at one country and ignore everything else. Globally it's 3% death rate with a 43% recovery rate.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 182,695 Cases and 7,173 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer
Lower death rate estimates for coronavirus provide glimmer of hope - STAT
The chance of someone with symptomatic Covid-19 dying varied by age, confirming other studies. For those aged 15 to 44, the fatality rate was 0.5%, though it might have been as low as 0.1% or as high as 1.3%. For people 45 to 64, the fatality rate was also 0.5%, with a possible low of 0.2% and a possible high of 1.1%. For those over 64, it was 2.7%, with a low and high estimate of 1.5% and 4.7%.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
At 1% :
"Between 750,000 and 1.1 million Americans may die of this disease before it runs its course. The latter figure is equal to all the U.S. dead in World War II and on both sides in the Civil War."

"if Fauci’s 1% mortality rate and Lipsitch’s estimate prove on target, between 3 billion and 5 billion people on earth will be infected, and 30 million to 50 million will die, a death toll greater than that of the Spanish Flu of 1918."

Will the Coronavirus Kill the New World Order?
That assumes everyone gets it, which is unlikely.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I'm terribly skeptic and doubtful of any source that asks if this will kill the new world order.

Landon is determined to yell fire in a crowded theater. There is no use in arguing with him. He is determined to ignore the "23,980" part of the equation.

Italy Coronavirus: 27,980 Cases and 2,158 Deaths - Worldometer

I have a question on your signature quote. Doesn't the devil love everyone, or, who doesn't the devil love? And doesn't human nature kind of show we do not have to be taught?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I have a question on your signature quote. Doesn't the devil love everyone, or, who doesn't the devil love? And doesn't human nature kind of show we do not have to be taught?
It's from a silly tongue in cheek song.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Update for today... Again, completed cases are STILL roughly 50 / 50 - death to recovery... I was hoping that the numbers of all completed cases would have lead to more "recoveries" by now, in relation to deaths... But it's holding fairly steady.

View attachment 37954
You focused so much on the increase in numbers last time. How's that holding up?
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
There was an Italian health official on the TV news last night, he said mortality was about 13% among ICU patients (ie the seriously ill ones).
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Indeed. Total deaths divided by total cases yields about 7.2% death rate.

I will take your figure as most likely to be accurate, but 7.2% is quite shocking enough.

I reckon that London is going to spiral in the next few weeks.

I wonder if there will be a connection between higher mortality within areas of higher (initial) denialism ?
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
I wonder if there will be a connection between higher mortality within areas of higher (initial) denialism ?

Possibly. What is predictable is that a long delay between first infections and implementation of social distancing and enhanced hygiene affects how quickly infection levels peak.

If infection peaks early it overwhelms the medical system.
If the spread can be slowed, there is a chance that there will be adequate medical services.
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
I will take your figure as most likely to be accurate, but 7.2% is quite shocking enough.

I reckon that London is going to spiral in the next few weeks.

I wonder if there will be a connection between higher mortality within areas of higher (initial) denialism ?

They reckon that London is ahead of the curve, but judging by news reports, people in London appear to be followed the government advice.
My sympathies are with people facing imminent unemployment, eg those working in the hospitality trade.

As for the numbers debate, its been estimated that the actual number infected is around 10 times the confirmed/reported number, which puts the actual UK mortality rate at about 1%. Though of course that's of little comfort to the people who have lost loved ones so far.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Possibly. What is predictable is that a long delay between first infections and implementation of social distancing and enhanced hygiene affects how quickly infection levels peak.

If infection peaks early it overwhelms the medical system.
If the spread can be slowed, there is a chance that there will be adequate medical services.
That all figures, I guess.

Let's hope we all sail through this, cos I reckon we will get it, most of us.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
They reckon that London is ahead of the curve, but judging by news reports, people in London appear to be followed the government advice.
My sympathies are with people facing imminent unemployment, eg those working in the hospitality trade.

As for the numbers debate, its been estimated that the actual number infected is around 10 times the confirmed/reported number, which puts the actual UK mortality rate at about 1%. Though of course that's of little comfort to the people who have lost loved ones so far.
Yes. Absolutely!
So many people are terrified about their rents, mortgages, loans, credit cards etc and how on earth they will ever manage to get back on top when this illness passes.

It's just dreadful.
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Yes. Absolutely!
So many people are terrified about their rents, mortgages, loans, credit cards etc and how on earth they will ever manage to get back on top when this illness passes.

It's just dreadful.

And to think we were just worried about BREXIT a few months back! This pandemic has certainly put things into perspective.
 
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