Italy and Hungary oppose warfare supply to Ukraine

[TagliatelliMonster]

The topic here is Meloni's decision to side with Orban.
Not the Corte Costituzionale.

But you made claims about it and I responded to it.
But I get it, it is only okay to engage when we agree with you.

Do you ever read an opening post or you come here just to insult me?

I did read the opening post. I didn't watch the video.
You call it "insulting" you. I just call it "correcting" you.

 

[Estro Felino]

But you made claims about it and I responded to it.
But I get it, it is only okay to engage when we agree with you.

The others disagree with me, but at least answer my questions.
Without belittling me.

I did read the opening post. I didn't watch the video.
You call it "insulting" you. I just call it "correcting" you.

So this is a compliment? Thanks Lala land. Nice

So these aren't comparable in any way, shape or form. Except in @Estro Felino 's lala-land, off course.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The others disagree with me, but at least answer my questions.
Without belittling me.

As if you answer questions or address points being brought to you.................

So this is a compliment? Thanks Lala land. Nice

See? Like that.
Did you respond to the points in that post? Nope.
Did you ever respond to it (because it's the 14th time or so that I brought it to your attention when you made similar claims to the one I was responding to there concerning comparing Libya with Ukraine)? Nope.

Will you ever? Nope.

Instead, you'll just change the topic, deflect and then accuse others of doing exactly that of which you are guilty off.
You would fit right in in the Kremlin. They are masters of falsely accusing others of their own crimes.

 

[Estro Felino]

As if you answer questions or address points being brought to you.................



See? Like that.
Did you respond to the points in that post? Nope.
Did you ever respond to it (because it's the 14th time or so that I brought it to your attention when you made similar claims to the one I was responding to there concerning comparing Libya with Ukraine)? Nope.

Will you ever? Nope.

Instead, you'll just change the topic, deflect and then accuse others of doing exactly that of which you are guilty off.
You would fit right in in the Kremlin. They are masters of falsely accusing others of their own crimes.

Ok.
Let's give it a try.

My affirmation: Italy will stop giving weapons to Zelenskii, as Hungary did.
Do you agree with this affirmation?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Ok.
Let's give it a try.

My affirmation: Italy will stop giving weapons to Zelenskii, as Hungary did.
Do you agree with this affirmation?

There's no sign of such a decision in the future at all.

Au contraire

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_225250.htm

 

[Estro Felino]

There's no sign of such a decision in the future at all.

Au contraire

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_225250.htm

Today I am going to the church to thank the Madonna. You answered a question of mine.
It's a miracle.
Thank you.
I will read your article.

 

[Estro Felino]

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_225250.htm

As a NATO member, that is a commitment to help Ukraine.
No doubt about that.
But things have changed. Now Ukraine wants to attack Russia.
So the problem is: will Italy help Ukraine attack and besiege Russia? I doubt that.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

As a NATO member, that is a commitment to help Ukraine.
No doubt about that.
But things have changed. Now Ukraine wants to attack Russia.
So the problem is: will Italy help Ukraine attack and besiege Russia? I doubt that.

You just changed your question. Your original question was only about sending weapons to ukraine, period.

Many countries that are sending weapons to ukraine, do so with the explicit condition that they can only be used to defend ukraine on ukrainian territory. In fact, that was the case for pretty much all weapons from all countries, until quite recently.

I wouldn't know what Italy's stance is on that one without looking it up.
But as I said: there is nothing in the public record which suggests they will stop sending weapons / supporting Ukraine in their defense against an invading aggressor.

EDIT: so I looked it up and idd, Italy's stance on using its weapons to strike at Russia itself remains unchanged. This has been so since the beginning so it's not like this is a new development or a change in policy regarding Italy's help to Ukraine, like you seem to be insinuating. Things have not changed.
Additionally, Italy is sending another Samp-T battery. So it is in fact actively in the process of sending weapons.

EDIT2: officially, only 13 countries have given Ukraine permission to use weapons supplied by them inside Russia. These countries are France, UK, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Netherlands, Sweden, the Czech Republic, Finland, Denmark, Norway and Canada.

Note how the US isn't one of them. Restrictions by the US have been relaxed since may 31, but officially Ukraine can't use, for example, long range missiles to hit Russia.

So why you are making such a big deal concerning Italy's stance on Ukraine not using Italian weapons in Russia, is kind of a mystery.

 

[Estro Felino]

The truth is that Ukraine and Russia are neighboring countries which cannot be eternal enemies for ever
And actually peace is reachable.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The truth is that Ukraine and Russia are neighboring countries which cannot be eternal enemies for ever
And actually peace is reachable.

I'm not so optimistic.
After everything that happened, I don't see how there can truly be lasting "peace" while the current Kremlin regime stays in place.

Even if tomorrow Russia pulls out 100% out of Ukraine and declares hostilities over... relations are pretty much shattered.
Russia has burned a lot of proverbial bridges...

Peace, as in an end of military conflict, in that case would be there, sure.
But there would still be tension. There would not be a return to pre-war relations. There would still be much distrust.

And Russia has only itself to blame for that.

To be perfectly honest, I don't actually think there is coming back from this for Putin and his cohorts.
A return to pre-war relations is not going to happen without a rebuild of trust. And I don't think that's possible any more with Putin and his entourage. And their eventual replacements also will have quite a long road ahead of them to prove to the world that they have turned that page.

 

[Stevicus]

The truth is that Ukraine and Russia are neighboring countries which cannot be eternal enemies for ever
And actually peace is reachable.

I don't think it could last forever, but it could last for as long as North and South Korea have been enemies. Even if they eventually stop fighting, it will still be a hostile border. Such enmities existed for long periods of time. The US and Cuba are neighbors yet have been at odds with each other for more than half a century.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't think it could last forever, but it could last for as long as North and South Korea have been enemies. Even if they eventually stop fighting, it will still be a hostile border. Such enmities existed for long periods of time. The US and Cuba are neighbors yet have been at odds with each other for more than half a century.

Ukrainians forget that they cannot join the EU unless they exit the Middle Ages they are in.
And once they re-write their constitution, all warmongers coming from abroad will be expelled from Ukraine, so the risk of potential conflicts will be reduced to zero.

 

[Altfish]

Well...
Orbán kinda ostracized Soros...
Helping Soros' baby would have been hardly coherent

Post #5 in this thread before Soros gets a mention.

 

[Altfish]

I find By-line Timesand The Financial Times are the best sources of information.

From Russia With Lies

Russia is waging a war of disinformation, propaganda and conspiracy – with willing messengers in the Russian public and on the British far-right, Sian Norris reports

bylinetimes.com

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

on edit - Sorry it appear that the FT article is behind a paywall

 

[Estro Felino]

Post #5 in this thread before Soros gets a mention.

What I find astounding is that you are not reprimanding me for calling that man Soros' baby, but for bringing Soros up.

 

[Altfish]

What I find astounding is that you are not reprimanding me for calling that man Soros' baby, but for bringing Soros up.

I'm not reprimanding you at all, just pointing out your incessant obsession with this man.

 

[Stevicus]

Ukrainians forget that they cannot join the EU unless they exit the Middle Ages they are in.
And once they re-write their constitution, all warmongers coming from abroad will be expelled from Ukraine, so the risk of potential conflicts will be reduced to zero.

Possibly, although it will still be a long time before Russia and Ukraine could ever be buddy-buddy again.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm not reprimanding you at all, just pointing out your incessant obsession with this man.

If he stops setting foot in Europe, I will stop bringing him up. Promise.

 

[Estro Felino]

Possibly, although it will still be a long time before Russia and Ukraine could ever be buddy-buddy again.

They don't need to.
The Baltics hate Russia's guts, but there are no warmongers inciting for war in those countries.

 

[Altfish]

They don't need to.
The Baltics hate Russia's guts, but there are no warmongers inciting for war in those countries.

I must be looking the wrong way.
Would you like to talk to my Ukrainian refugee neighbours? They tell me different, they talk about bombs on their city and invasion from Putin's Russia.