It's not all bad.

[Popeyesays]

It is also arrogant to declare God loves us.

Actually, I don't have to declare it, the Messengers all declare it.

5. O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)


Love requires a certain amount of reciprocity.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Hope]

It is also arrogant to think Christians are the center of the universe, which to God, you are.

Where did I say that Christians are the center of the universe??

That is your own assumption, not mine.

 

[Hope]

It is also arrogant to declare God loves us.

How so?? Would you rather me say He hates us? Would that be less arrogant? Not quite following your logic here....

 

[logician]

And the worse the hardships, the more fundamentalist the religion. Check out the membership of any strongly fundamentalist church.

 

[Hope]

Sorry, justified, not overcome--though it's both.

Death is, whether one justifies it or not, one will die. That is the way of Creation--beginnings and endings.

The same applies to sickness, separation, etc.. it is a common condition. To say that some losses cannot be justified is an empty statement logically because someone can justify them, though not necessarily to another's satisfaction.

Regards,
Scott

Ok, gotcha.

I guess you've got a good point. I wasn't exactly thinking along those lines, but ok.

 

[LogDog]

No matter how you look at it, everything still goes back to God.

It does if you choose to buy into what your religion wants you to think.

It is sheer arrogance to assume we tiny humans are in complete control of our own lives.

So we don't have free will?

 

[Popeyesays]

It does if you choose to buy into what your religion wants you to think.



So we don't have free will?

Free Will does not put us in total control of our lives, Logdog. Nothing you can do or not do will keep you from walking under a falling safe if circumstances arise. You will die someday, and it is not in your control to live forever.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Jeremiah]

How so?? Would you rather me say He hates us? Would that be less arrogant? Not quite following your logic here....

It's logic based of the possibility that...

God has a different purpose for creation other than us.

What if we are just gears that make the clock hand turn?

 

[Willamena]

Self-delusion can be helpful for individuals whose lives are a “living hell”. That's why, like cockroaches, religion thrives in areas of poverty.

But what if they've only self-deluded themselves into believing that it's all self-delusion?

 

[rojse]

There is no correlation between religious belief and prosperity.

God is not interested in HOW prosperous any one person might be, just that the universe provide enough for all. If people desire to squabble over that which they will lose upon their death anyway, that's their business.

There is only God, God of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Zoroastrians, Animists, Sabaeans, Pagans, Daoists, Baha`i's Hindus, Shintoists, Buddhists, atheists and those who cannot make up their minds: One Creator, One God.

Regards,
Scott

The universe does not provide enough for all. There are people that live without housing, fresh water, or a constant supply of food. That's nothing to do with how prosperous a person is, but being able to get the basic necessities of life.

 

[Popeyesays]

The universe does not provide enough for all. There are people that live without housing, fresh water, or a constant supply of food. That's nothing to do with how prosperous a person is, but being able to get the basic necessities of life.

But it is possible to gain fresh clean water if other humans will put forth the effort. This planet is terrific for providing the necessities of life to all. Getting those necessities to where there mahy b e shortages is on man's shoulders, not God's.

Regards,
Scott

 

[LogDog]

Free Will does not put us in total control of our lives, Logdog.

Are you suggesting that your god is in control when you're not? Because usually, when people lose control of their lives, bad things happen.

You will die someday, and it is not in your control to live forever.

Oh, I'll die. And if one chooses to accept the word of Bronze Age goat herders, I'll also live forever. In hell. Which, from what I'm told, is not a very nice place. It seems that I'll be headed there because I won't accept as "truth" a story about a cosmic zombie character who was his own father who'll let me live forever in paradise if I symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him I accept him as my master so he can remove an evil force from my soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

If it is the case that hell exists and it is where I find myslef after death, I'll be content. If the alternative means an eternity in heaven, worshiping and singing praise to the monstrous character depicted in your "holy book", I'll take hell any day of the week.

 

[Popeyesays]

Are you suggesting that your god is in control when you're not? Because usually, when people lose control of their lives, bad things happen.



Oh, I'll die. And if one chooses to accept the word of Bronze Age goat herders, I'll also live forever. In hell. Which, from what I'm told, is not a very nice place. It seems that I'll be headed there because I won't accept as "truth" a story about a cosmic zombie character who was his own father who'll let me live forever in paradise if I symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him I accept him as my master so he can remove an evil force from my soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

If it is the case that hell exists and it is where I find myslef after death, I'll be content. If the alternative means an eternity in heaven, worshiping and singing praise to the monstrous character depicted in your "holy book", I'll take hell any day of the week.

I wouldn't worry, hell is a state of being you can live in while you're still alive--same for heaven. I don't believe in heaven and hell, or condemnation either.

As to control, you surrender various measures of control everytime you get sneezed on in public, climb on a bus or into a car or airplane, walk around after dark, or live where weather extremes can take control away you at a moment's notice. No has perfect control of anything.

Regards,
Scott

 

[yossarian22]

The universe does not provide enough for all.

Yes it does.
There is more then enough food for everybody on the planet.
There is more then enough water for everybody on the planet. We have a problem of logistics, not quantity.
And the universe has essentially infinite resources.

 

[UnTheist]

Where did I say that Christians are the center of the universe??

That is your own assumption, not mine.

I don't need your assumption. Just look in the Bible.

 

[Popeyesays]

Doesn't matter. Those Scientists could have done nothing to help Humanity, but they did anyway. God gets credit for creating us, nothing more. Nope. But they can reduce it, and they have a great track record of doing it. Without God. Yes. The good and the bad. Oh wait, God isn't responsible for the bad. It was"God's will"It is also arrogant to think Christians are the center of the universe, which to God, you are.

Perhaps it was God's intent to create us, provide enough for us and allow us to take responsibility for ourselves?

In my faith we say: The Kingdom has come on earth--some assembly required.

Regards,
Scott

 

[UnTheist]

Perhaps it was God's intent to create us, provide enough for us and allow us to take responsibility for ourselves?

In my faith we say: The Kingdom has come on earth--some assembly required.

Regards,
Scott

But God cannot get credit for Human achievements. It's like saying I get all the credit for my song being a rocket Scientist simply because I created him. (That's the best way I could say it lol)

 

[Popeyesays]

But God cannot get credit for Human achievements. It's like saying I get all the credit for my song being a rocket Scientist simply because I created him. (That's the best way I could say it lol)

What does God care about credit? This life is the chance to make your own credit on your own bat--go for it. But if you require resources to amass that credit, where di the resources come from?

What scientist has created a hydrogen atom from nothing?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Hope]

I don't need your assumption. Just look in the Bible.

I have. Please point out verses that back up your assumption, because I don't recall seeing any.

 

[UnTheist]

I have. Please point out verses that back up your assumption, because I don't recall seeing any.

The fact that Christians go to Heaven, and everyone else goes to Hell. God cares about nothing more than his children. I proved my point.