Its not euthanasia, its suicide.

[Saint Frankenstein]

You're the one who's throwing the tantrum...... I'm the one who's pointing it out.

No, you are the one throwing a tantrum at me, accusing me of not caring. How dare you say that when I'm hoping her life will be saved and that she will have a good, healthy life with her loved ones, and you're cool with her killing herself! Must be nice in bizarro world! Plus, you have admitted that you don't know anything about this case so you basically lied about knowing more details (you presented it that way). No wonder you didn't present any links and instead decided to try to distract me with inane ranting and raving. So it's a waste of time talking about it with you. Now I remember why I had you on ignore for years (I recently wiped out my ignore list).

 

[McBell]

What's bizarre is you think this isn't a failure.

what is bizarre:

1. you have not even talked to her, let alone met her.
2. You have no idea how many, if any, suicide attempts she has had
3. You have not seen a singe line of her medical records.
4. You are not a doctor
5. You do not know anything about The Dutch Termination of Life on Request and Assisted Suicide Act

Yet you think you know better than all the people who actually know her, have access to her medical records, and know and understand The Dutch Termination of Life on Request and Assisted Suicide Act...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are not looking for mental clarity but mental confusion.

That makes no sense at all either in light of my posts in this thread, which have exclusively been only about pointing out how people here are making all kinds of accusations at the address of the doctors involved, the patient, her family, etc .... with literally NO INFORMATION AT ALL.



Instead of all this pretending, why don't you just be honest and say that you think euthanasia, NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, is bad and be done with it?
For you, it's not about this particular case at all. It's about ANY case, no matter the circumstances, no matter the specifics.

You think euthanasia shouldn't be legal, period.
You think it's bad always, in any circumstance, period.

I would disagree with you off course, but at least then we can have a proper discussion about the actual topic instead of tap dancing all around it by pretending it is about this particular case of which you actually know nothing about.

 

[Rival]

'Dr, I'm really depressed and nothing has helped.'

'Have you tried killing yourself?'

 

[Link]

That makes no sense at all either in light of my posts in this thread, which have exclusively been only about pointing out how people here are making all kinds of accusations at the address of the doctors involved, the patient, her family, etc .... with literally NO INFORMATION AT ALL.



Instead of all this pretending, why don't you just be honest and say that you think euthanasia, NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, is bad and be done with it?
For you, it's not about this particular case at all. It's about ANY case, no matter the circumstances, no matter the specifics.

You think euthanasia shouldn't be legal, period.
You think it's bad always, in any circumstance, period.

I would disagree with you off course, but at least then we can have a proper discussion about the actual topic instead of tap dancing all around it by pretending it is about this particular case of which you actually know nothing about.

You are trying to make it confusing when it's not. There are consequences, allow it for x situation and another situation might resemble x but not be it. Plus - you are ignorant because you don't want to think of it with mental clarity- I've discussed this issue with psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, as well professors.

Society should do their best to help people in such situations, not give them dim hope. I've been in despair depressive suicidal mode for a great portion of my life. I know how its like. If this option was open to me and my family would not be against it, i probably would've taken it.

The fact is the biggest factor is I realized the stigma attached to my family if I did it. Now I'm not depressed, quite the opposite, really happy.

And I've have had friends commit suicide. At the moment of despair, it's all you see. That's all you think will be the future. It's not the case.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

'Dr, I'm really depressed and nothing has helped.'

'Have you tried killing yourself?'

Ow great, another one.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, you are the one throwing a tantrum at me, accusing me of not caring.

I didn't say any such thing.
At best, I said you don't care about the specifics of this case. And that is a fact that you yourself have acknowledged by saying that you won't change your mind anyway.
Remember?

Plus, you have admitted that you don't know anything about this case so you basically lied about knowing more details (you presented it that way).

I said no such thing.

I however did google her name to see if it was covered in dutch press. I found an article which contained about as much medical information as the one posted here (as good as none). There were a few quotes from her mother, one of which I shared here.

I still don't know anything about the actual case (ie: medical information).
You can't exactly google medical records and track records of treatments etc you know....
Doctor / patient confidentiality and such.............

At this point though, I would just like to point out that next to accusing the doctors of malpractice and insulting both the patient and the mother, you now have also falsely accused me of lying. You are on roll.......... not a good rool though. But a roll nonetheless.

No wonder you didn't present any links

Nothing I found by google her name is secret information. If you are interested you can find it too by doing the same.
But as I mentioned before: if you were actually interested, you would have done that already.

The fact that you haven't says it all.

and instead decided to try to distract me with inane ranting and raving.

If that is what you wish to call pointing out that you are slandering people without any type of basis in evidence. Sure.

So it's a waste of time talking about it with you. Now I remember why I had you on ignore for years (I recently wiped out my ignore list).

Ow, I'm so scared. Threatening with putting me on ignore. How mature of your.

About as mature as slandering people with no basis in fact or evidence. Or any knowledge of the legal proceedings of euthanasia laws in the country in question, for that matter.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are trying to make it confusing when it's not.

What am I "making confusing"?

I'm just pointing out that we have people here who are accusing doctors of malpractice while knowing NOTHING about the case in question.

Accusing doctors of malpractice is quite a serious accusation. Don't you think this shouldn't be done so lightly?

Next to that, they are also insulting the patient and her mother and boyfriend. Again without knowing anything about this case.
They are speaking about this as if this woman decided to get euthanized with the same nonchalance as if she decided to eat a cheese sandwich.

And you wish to lecture me on what is morally repugnant? Really?

This thread makes me sick to my stomach.

There are consequences, allow it for x situation and another situation might resemble x but not be it. Plus - you are ignorant because you don't want to think of it with mental clarity- I've discussed this issue with psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, as well professors.

Society should do their best to help people in such situations, not give them dim hope. I've been in despair depressive suicidal mode for a great portion of my life. I know how its like. If this option was open to me and my family would not be against it, i probably would've taken it.

The fact is the biggest factor is I realized the stigma attached to my family if I did it. Now I'm not depressed, quite the opposite, really happy.

And I've have had friends commit suicide. At the moment of despair, it's all you see. That's all you think will be the future. It's not the case.

Don't pretend as if you have knowledge of the case in the OP. You don't.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I didn't say any such thing.
At best, I said you don't care about the specifics of this case. And that is a fact that you yourself have acknowledged by saying that you won't change your mind anyway.
Remember?



I said no such thing.

I however did google her name to see if it was covered in dutch press. I found an article which contained about as much medical information as the one posted here (as good as none). There were a few quotes from her mother, one of which I shared here.

I still don't know anything about the actual case (ie: medical information).
You can't exactly google medical records and track records of treatments etc you know....
Doctor / patient confidentiality and such.............

At this point though, I would just like to point out that next to accusing the doctors of malpractice and insulting both the patient and the mother, you now have also falsely accused me of lying. You are on roll.......... not a good rool though. But a roll nonetheless.



Nothing I found by google her name is secret information. If you are interested you can find it too by doing the same.
But as I mentioned before: if you were actually interested, you would have done that already.

The fact that you haven't says it all.



If that is what you wish to call pointing out that you are slandering people without any type of basis in evidence. Sure.



Ow, I'm so scared. Threatening with putting me on ignore. How mature of your.

About as mature as slandering people with no basis in fact or evidence. Or any knowledge of the legal proceedings of euthanasia laws in the country in question, for that matter.

I didn't threaten to put you back on ignore. I said I remember why I had you on ignore for years. Now this discussion is over, not that it ever really began.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I didn't threaten to put you back on ignore. I said I remember why I had you on ignore for years

Your implication was clear.


Good job on ignoring the rest of the post.

Did you google her name yet?

Off course you didn't.

Bye then.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your implication was clear.


Good job on ignoring the rest of the post.

Did you google her name yet?

Off course you didn't.

Bye then.

Lol, you are so mad for some reason. You just said that the other articles about it don't mention anything more about her health history than the article in the OP, so why the hell would I bother at this point? I asked if you had more info and you just threw a fit at me, and then you finally say that you don't. What more to do you want from me?

 

[Rival]

Ow great, another one.

Yeah, because killing yourself is not medicine.

It's giving up.

I'm also another one who has been previously suicidal and has found the light.

Suicide is not the way, it hurts others, and installing it as an option is positively nihilistic. We're not trying to create a nihilistic society. We are trying to create a procreative society full of life, not death and loss.

It's very weird how some people seem to think death is an option.

Our birth rates are already low and we're allowing young people to kill themselves because of depression?

Sounds very unhealthy to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not really sure how

I'm not really sure how anyone could be astounded by this. We are saturated in a culture that doesn't respect life. We have decided that life is valuable only in specific situation. Life has been supplanted by "personhood".

To some of us, quality of life counts for something.
And dying with dignity on one's own terms.

 

[Rival]

And dying with dignity on one's own terms.

There is no way to die with dignity, death is always going to be disgraceful. Imo.

It's not like giving you a choice when to die stops it being death.

 

[SkepticThinker]

There is no way to die with dignity, death is always going to be disgraceful. Imo.

It's not like giving you a choice when to die stops it being death.

Sure there is and it's euthanasia.

For example, I'm quite certain my grandmother would have preferred to die this way (with some dignity) instead of all alone in a hospital hallway crying in agony.

 

[Rival]

Sure there is and it's euthanasia.

For example, I'm quite certain my grandmother would have preferred to die this way (with some dignity) instead of all alone in a hospital hallway crying in agony.

That sounds more like an acute failure of the hospital and medical care.

 

[Colt]

I can't find any major news reporting this, and I hope to god it isn't true, but several secondary media sources are running with this recent story involving a perfectly healthy woman who was told her depression is incurable and she will never ever get better, and will be voluntarily killing herself next month at the time this story is published.

MSN

I'm an advocate of euthanasia, but this doesn't sound right as I've never heard of any incurable mental illness aside from mental retardation or some other issue involving a person's brain where their behavior is severely compromised.

For me this is suicide and not euthanasia , but I also feel if a person wants to end their life, it's their business when all is said and done. Still , I feel this is a really bad decision and I hope , if true, this gets averted.

Cant help but to remember Gilda Radner as Roseanne Roseannadanna doing her SNL monologue on "youths in Asia"!

 

[Yerda]

Sadly, it's true and not new. The Dutch and Belgians have been allowing people to kill themselves for mental health reasons for at least a few decades. It's disgusting and a real failure of their duty to care for their people.

Perhaps they view their duty of care as involving the minimisation of suffering and also maybe respecting the wishes of people to make their own choices within law.

Would you prefer she does it with a rope or a bag of painkillers?

That story is really sad. She was horribly failed by her doctor's. There's no way they've tried every single remedy available.

How do you know this? The article doesn't detail her treatment history and the discussions she has had with doctors/counsellors etc.

The article implies her doctors have somehow coerced her into this but there's no quotation from the women saying anything like this.

And what about her boyfriend and cats? Someone has to stop this!

This is for her and her boyfriend to work out.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That sounds more like an acute failure of the hospital and medical care.

It was a failure of her health. She had a massive stroke. She just happened to be in the hallway awaiting treatment at the time it happened, rather than in her bed.
It would have been pretty awful for her to die in a such a way in her bed as well, and I'm sure she would have preferred something more peaceful. Wouldn't we all? There's more dignity in that, for some. That's basically my point.

 

[Rival]

It was a failure of her health. She had a massive stroke. She just happened to be in the hallway awaiting treatment at the time it happened, rather than in her bed.
It would have been pretty awful for her to die in a such a way in her bed as well, and I'm sure she would have preferred something more peaceful. Wouldn't we all? There's more dignity in that, for some. That's basically my point.

I think we are talking about two different issues here. This is clearly a case of end-of-life care and that is much different and I'm way more sympathetic to that.

The OP is not the same, though.