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JD Vance - A Gift To Biden

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Because he changed his mind? You can believe what you want but I disagree that you can know this.
No, because he went from being vehemently against Trump, calling him things like "America's Hitler", to fully support Trump and sucking up to him, all because he wanted to get into politics.

If you can't see this, then you're just refusing to acknowledge obvious facts.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Again, according to you there cannot be any good reasons to vote for Trump...
Actually, I never made such a claim.
It all depends upon what an individual considers "good".
There are many "good" reasons someone might vote for Trump,
eg, ending abortion rights, allowing Russia to take Ukraine.
...we are either all idiots or low information people.
I used "low information" to describe people I personally
know IRL. Their values differ from Trump's agendas, but
they're largely unaware of his acts.
And there are (as I said) many who really like what Trump
has done (eg, packing SCOTUS with anti-abortion justices),
& will do (persecute foes in the liberal media).
They're not idiots. They just have values different from mine.
Very different.

You're trying too hard to feel insulted.
Which is odd for one who's been so insulting.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Vance has already explained his change of mind.
Yes, he wanted to gain power in politics. That's the cause of his "change of mind".
People do that, Harris ran against Biden in 2020 primaries and called him out for opposing busing and siding with segregationists, which is true. She changed her mind too and according to you it would be because she wanted power.
You're talking about a completely different situation. Vance wasn't in politics. He wasn't trying to beat Trump in a race. He was just giving his opinion as a regular citizen. Harris was trying to beat Biden to become the nominee. Obviously she's going to disagree with him and set herself as different/better than him.

She didn't change her mind. She lost the race and so supported the nominee, like almost all losers of primaries do. She didn't go from "Biden is Hitler" to "Biden is the best, and all of his lies are actually true".
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
No, because he went from being vehemently against Trump, calling him things like "America's Hitler", to fully support Trump and sucking up to him, all because he wanted to get into politics.

If you can't see this, then you're just refusing to acknowledge obvious facts.
Then show me how you know this? You are just claiming things you cannot know unless he said them to someone or you can read his mind.
 

Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Possibly.
But attacking Vance is inevitable,
& will be more accepted than
attacking Trump.
Kamala Harris said some pretty nasty things about Biden when she was competing against him for the nomination last election.....Biden still won and Biden still had Kamala as his VP pick
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Actually, I never made such a claim.
It all depends upon what an individual considers "good".
There are many "good" reasons someone might vote for Trump,
eg, ending abortion rights, allowing Russia to take Ukraine.

I used "low information" to describe people I personally
know IRL. Their values differ from Trump's agendas, but
they're largely unaware of his acts.
And there are (as I said) many who really like what Trump
has done (eg, packing SCOTUS with anti-abortion justices),
& will do (persecute foes in the liberal media).
They're not idiots. They just have values different from mine.
Very different.

You're trying too hard to feel insulted.
Which is odd for one who's been so insulting.
Ok, I realized it is not worth the time to debate someone that won't vote for trump anyway. I have not been insulting, I have just analyzed your motives like you are analyzing Vance's. You routinely insult people here.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Yes, he wanted to gain power in politics. That's the cause of his "change of mind".
Where did he say this?
You're talking about a completely different situation. Vance wasn't in politics. He wasn't trying to beat Trump in a race. He was just giving his opinion as a regular citizen. Harris was trying to beat Biden to become the nominee. Obviously she's going to disagree with him and set herself as different/better than him.

She didn't change her mind. She lost the race and so supported the nominee, like almost all losers of primaries do. She didn't go from "Biden is Hitler" to "Biden is the best, and all of his lies are actually true".
No she went from saying Biden agrees with segregationists to his vice president.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Then show me how you know this? You are just claiming things you cannot know unless he said them to someone or you can read his mind.
This has already been gone over multiple times. Here are some of his comments before going into politics:

"I'm a Never Trump guy. I never liked him."
"My God, what an idiot."
"Trump is a cynical ******* like Nixon...or that he's America's Hitler."
"Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation's highest office."
"I can't stomach Trump. I think that he's noxious and is leading the white working class to a very dark place."

Then within a few years, he's downplaying January 6th, supporting Trump's lies about the election and generally sucking up to Trump in any way he can.

That's not simply changing your mind. Nothing actually changed during that span, other than Vance wanting more power.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Where did he say this?
Just to be clear, your argument is that if he didn't admit to it, it's not true? That we can't look at his actions and make obvious determinations? Trump claims he didn't have sex with a porn star too. I guess that didn't happen, huh?
No she went from saying Biden agrees with segregationists to his vice president.
Correct. She fought him in the primary, as all politicians of the same party do. And then, once she lost, like all politicians in a primary, she supported his bid. She didn't give her honest opinion of him and call him Hitler just because it's what she thought of him, and then start praising him and repeating his lies in order to gain political power.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Kamala Harris said some pretty nasty things about Biden when she was competing against him for the nomination last election.....Biden still won and Biden still had Kamala as his VP pick
Did she call him "America's Hitler"?
No.
Different levels of criticism.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Vance seemed to change his mind in 2021. He did not change his mind to be vice president, that would have been really unlikely. The majority of Trump voters have changed their minds about him. I don't think this will be an issue. He may come across as more genuine and thoughtful. We will see.
I know. It is rather amazing. The party is not just a party of Kool Aid drinkers, they seem to be gargling with it too.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Vance has already explained his change of mind. People do that, Harris ran against Biden in 2020 primaries and called him out for opposing busing and siding with segregationists, which is true. She changed her mind too and according to you it would be because she wanted power.
That happens in politics. And Biden was able to refute all of those attacks by Harris. I have never seen Trump come close to refuting those sorts of claims about him.
 
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