Jehovah's Witness=Unbiblical Religion!

[metis]

Has an unbroken line of successors been traced from Peter to modern-day popes?

There have been and still are questions about the precise line of succession dealing with who was pope, but what not is in question is the assembly of bishops in the known world at that time that came from appointments made continuously along the line of the early Church to the present day.

 

[metis]

“Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament . . .

Of course not, as that was and is a "theological construct" to try and explain what they thought the relationship was and is. Whether it is correct or not I do not know.

 

[cataway]

I was talking about the poor man and Lazarus and the rich man in hades. It was a parable. But if the dead didn't live on or suffer in hades, why would Christ give that parable?

The rest of what I shared with you is in Scripture. Plenty verses confirm the dead go on living after death.

Which part of what I said was incoherent? You just don't like and can't handle the truth?

likely he was tailoring the story to someone's understanding

 

[Spiderman]

This triangle?

The triangle was just supposed to be an arrow pointing up at the quoted post.

 

[Spiderman]

The triangle was just supposed to be an arrow pointing up at the quoted post.

A triangle can symbolize the Trinity too, think about it ∆. Three equal lines in one symbol!
a polygon with three edges and three vertices. It is one of the basic shapes in geometry. A triangle with vertices A, B, and C is denoted . In Euclidean geometry, any three points, when non-collinear, determine a unique triangle and simultaneously, a unique plane

Just like the Holy Trinity!

 

[metis]

A triangle can symbolize the Trinity too, think about it ∆. Three equal lines in one symbol!
a polygon with three edges and three vertices. It is one of the basic shapes in geometry. A triangle with vertices A, B, and C is denoted . In Euclidean geometry, any three points, when non-collinear, determine a unique triangle and simultaneously, a unique plane

Just like the Holy Trinity! View attachment 60902

Also, the spruce tree was and is used as a symbol of the Trinity based on its triangle shape.

 

[cataway]

It's possible it was just a parable.

But why would Jesus talk of some one burning in hades if that never happens? He had a tongue and felt flames from heat too.

But he wouldn't die

And he wanted to warn family about that place of torment.

Why would Jesus lead people to believe in a place of torment, that doesn't exist? That is deceptive!

JESUS is relating an illustration about a rich man and a poor beggar named Lazarus. The rich man represents the religious leaders who are favored with spiritual privileges and opportunities, and Lazarus pictures the common people who hunger for spiritual nourishment. Jesus continues his story, describing a dramatic change in the men’s circumstances.
“Now in course of time,” Jesus says, “the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom position of Abraham. Also, the rich man died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in the bosom position with him.”
Since the rich man and Lazarus are not literal persons but symbolize classes of people, logically their deaths are also symbolic. What do their deaths symbolize, or represent?
Jesus has just finished pointing to a change in circumstances by saying that ‘the Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptizer, but from then on the kingdom of God is being declared.’ Hence, it is with the preaching of John and Jesus Christ that both the rich man and Lazarus die to their former circumstances, or condition.
Those of the humble, repentant Lazarus class die to their former spiritually deprived condition and come into a position of divine favor. Whereas they had earlier looked to the religious leaders for what little dropped from the spiritual table, now the Scriptural truths imparted by Jesus are filling their needs. They are thus brought into the bosom, or favored position, of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God.
On the other hand, those who make up the rich-man class come under divine disfavor because of persistently refusing to accept the Kingdom message taught by Jesus. They thereby die to their former position of seeming favor. In fact, they are spoken of as being in figurative torment. Listen as the rich man speaks:
“Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.” God’s fiery judgment messages proclaimed by Jesus’ disciples are what torment individuals of the rich-man class. They want the disciples to let up on declaring these messages, thus providing them some measure of relief from their torments.
“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received in full your good things in your lifetime, but Lazarus correspondingly the injurious things. Now, however, he is having comfort here but you are in anguish. And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you people, so that those wanting to go over from here to you people cannot, neither may people cross over from there to us.’”
How just and appropriate that such a dramatic reversal take place between the Lazarus class and the rich man class! The change in conditions is accomplished a few months later at Pentecost 33 C.E., when the old Law covenant is replaced by the new covenant. It then becomes unmistakably clear that the disciples are favored by God, not the Pharisees and other religious leaders. The “great chasm” that separates the symbolic rich man from Jesus’ disciples therefore represents God’s unchangeable, righteous judgment.
The rich man next requests “father Abraham” to send Lazarus “to the house of my father, for I have five brothers.” The rich man thus confesses he has a closer relationship to another father, who is actually Satan the Devil. The rich man requests that Lazarus water down God’s judgment messages so as not to put his “five brothers,” his religious allies, in “this place of torment.”
“But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.’” Yes, if the “five brothers” would escape torment, all they have to do is heed the writings of Moses and the Prophets that identify Jesus as the Messiah and then become his disciples. But the rich man objects: “‘No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’” God will not provide special signs or miracles to convince such. People must read and apply the Scriptures if they would obtain his favor. Luke 16:16, 22-31; John 8:44.

 

[Spiderman]

JESUS is relating an illustration about a rich man and a poor beggar named Lazarus. The rich man represents the religious leaders who are favored with spiritual privileges and opportunities, and Lazarus pictures the common people who hunger for spiritual nourishment. Jesus continues his story, describing a dramatic change in the men’s circumstances.
“Now in course of time,” Jesus says, “the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom position of Abraham. Also, the rich man died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in the bosom position with him.”
Since the rich man and Lazarus are not literal persons but symbolize classes of people, logically their deaths are also symbolic. What do their deaths symbolize, or represent?
Jesus has just finished pointing to a change in circumstances by saying that ‘the Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptizer, but from then on the kingdom of God is being declared.’ Hence, it is with the preaching of John and Jesus Christ that both the rich man and Lazarus die to their former circumstances, or condition.
Those of the humble, repentant Lazarus class die to their former spiritually deprived condition and come into a position of divine favor. Whereas they had earlier looked to the religious leaders for what little dropped from the spiritual table, now the Scriptural truths imparted by Jesus are filling their needs. They are thus brought into the bosom, or favored position, of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God.
On the other hand, those who make up the rich-man class come under divine disfavor because of persistently refusing to accept the Kingdom message taught by Jesus. They thereby die to their former position of seeming favor. In fact, they are spoken of as being in figurative torment. Listen as the rich man speaks:
“Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.” God’s fiery judgment messages proclaimed by Jesus’ disciples are what torment individuals of the rich-man class. They want the disciples to let up on declaring these messages, thus providing them some measure of relief from their torments.
“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received in full your good things in your lifetime, but Lazarus correspondingly the injurious things. Now, however, he is having comfort here but you are in anguish. And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you people, so that those wanting to go over from here to you people cannot, neither may people cross over from there to us.’”
How just and appropriate that such a dramatic reversal take place between the Lazarus class and the rich man class! The change in conditions is accomplished a few months later at Pentecost 33 C.E., when the old Law covenant is replaced by the new covenant. It then becomes unmistakably clear that the disciples are favored by God, not the Pharisees and other religious leaders. The “great chasm” that separates the symbolic rich man from Jesus’ disciples therefore represents God’s unchangeable, righteous judgment.
The rich man next requests “father Abraham” to send Lazarus “to the house of my father, for I have five brothers.” The rich man thus confesses he has a closer relationship to another father, who is actually Satan the Devil. The rich man requests that Lazarus water down God’s judgment messages so as not to put his “five brothers,” his religious allies, in “this place of torment.”
“But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.’” Yes, if the “five brothers” would escape torment, all they have to do is heed the writings of Moses and the Prophets that identify Jesus as the Messiah and then become his disciples. But the rich man objects: “‘No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’” God will not provide special signs or miracles to convince such. People must read and apply the Scriptures if they would obtain his favor. Luke 16:16, 22-31; John 8:44.

You took this parable and you added a whole bunch of stuff that is not found in scripture. I see you were either making yourself your own God or making yourself a pope, or an authority to interpret scripture, and add a bunch of stuff to it that isn't there.

How do I know that what you're saying is true? It's not in the Bible?

 

[cataway]

You took this parable and you added a whole bunch of stuff that is not found in scripture. I see you were either making yourself your own God or making yourself a pope, or an authority to interpret scripture, and add a bunch of stuff to it that isn't there.

How do I know that what you're saying is true? It's not in the Bible?

but you like lies .if it was lies you would be fine with it. there for it must be truth

 

[Spiderman]

but you like lies .if it was lies you would be fine with it. there for it must be truth

What lies do I like?

If I thought Jehovah's witnesses had truth, I would embrace it.

It is obvious falsehoods they sometimes promote, like Jesus letting his Church become Satanic, after he promised not to let that happen.

Or Jesus being Michael the Archangel!

 

[YoursTrue]

likely he was tailoring the story to someone's understanding

I would say.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's possible it was just a parable.

But why would Jesus talk of some one burning in hades if that never happens? He had a tongue and felt flames from heat too.

But he wouldn't die

And he wanted to warn family about that place of torment.

Why would Jesus lead people to believe in a place of torment, that doesn't exist? That is deceptive!

Apparently that was a concept at that time, and so he used it as an illustration of a particular condition. The rich man represented something. So did the poor man Contrary to popular doctrine, the dead are not alive. Anything beyond that must be examined very carefully and with prayer for understanding.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is false. The Catholic Church was and is an extension of the Church going back to the Apostles and Jesus, but along the way it went through a couple of name changes, from what is believed to be "the Way", to "Christian" [2nd century] to "Catholic" [3rd century]. In the 2nd century, both "catholic" [meaning universal] and "orthodox" [meaning truth], were used as descriptors. When the Great Schism occurred many centuries later, the breakoff church called itself the "Orthodox Church", as it remains today.

I find it fascinating. I was raised in a secularly religious family if you understand what that means. We had a religion (family was not Jehovah's witnesses, I became one later...) so I really was not taught much about religious history. But I remember one fascinating teaching my history teacher taught us. It was called the "Great Schism," as you mentioned. I never forgot the impact it made on my mind, although I didn't understand it much. She said it changed the course of Europe and history when the church divided, the king of England I believe took his little stand. Fascinating, just fascinating. But I learned more about it much later.

 

[YoursTrue]

What lies do I like?

If I thought Jehovah's witnesses had truth, I would embrace it.

It is obvious falsehoods they sometimes promote, like Jesus letting his Church become Satanic, after he promised not to let that happen.

Or Jesus being Michael the Archangel!

All your points can be gone over sometime. Similarly if I thought Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the true religion, I would not be one.

 

[YoursTrue]

A triangle can symbolize the Trinity too, think about it ∆. Three equal lines in one symbol!
a polygon with three edges and three vertices. It is one of the basic shapes in geometry. A triangle with vertices A, B, and C is denoted . In Euclidean geometry, any three points, when non-collinear, determine a unique triangle and simultaneously, a unique plane

Just like the Holy Trinity! View attachment 60902

The problem is that Jesus said the Father is greater than he is. In any case, would that be a shorter line in the triangle?

 

[Spiderman]

The problem is that Jesus said the Father is greater than he is. In any case, would that be a shorter line in the triangle?

Potentially, but we never know what he meant when he said that. He also said ask anything of the Father in his name, and it will be done. He obviously didn't mean what he said, because I pray incessantly for grace to simply just do his will, in Jesus name!

He keeps telling me the Catholic Church is the Church he founded, and I should turn the the Church and Catechism for correct interpretation of Scripture.

Jesus didn't mean what he says in certain areas, because we all know not everything some one asks for in Jesus name gets granted, as Jesus said.

And you obviously don't believe him at the last supper when he said "this is my body, this is my blood".

Regarding "the Father is greater than I".
He may have simply been stating that the Father is temporarily greater than him before he ascends to Heaven, because temporarily he must suffer human weaknesses, while in the flesh, on earth, before the Resurrection! The Father never shared those weaknesses!

 

[muhammad_isa]

Regarding "the Father is greater than I".
He may have simply been stating that the Father is temporarily greater than him before he ascends to Heaven, because temporarily he must suffer human weaknesses, while in the flesh, on earth, before the Resurrection! The Father never shared those weaknesses!

Jesus never taught anything about a trinity. That is without question, man-made dogma that was established politically by vote in the Roman Empire.

The problem with mankind, is that they find it very hard to "unlearn" something.
It is totally irrelevant what "substance" Jesus is made from.
Jesus never discussed it .. why would he?

 

[Spiderman]

Jesus never taught anything about a trinity. That is without question, man-made dogma that was established politically by vote in the Roman Empire.

The problem with mankind, is that they find it very hard to "unlearn" something.
It is totally irrelevant what "substance" Jesus is made from.
Jesus never discussed it .. why would he?

Jesus said he and the Father are one, those who see him have seen the Father, and the Scriptures make it clear our bodies are Temples of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is Divine, and can be assisting many people at once, and all things were created through Jesus!

But I wouldn't have a problem with people rejecting the trinity, but because they are so judgemental, bigoted, condemn everyone who doesn't agree with them as Idolators, it is only because of that , and that alone is why I point out they are unbiblical!

Muslims oppress and kill more people in the name of God, in my life time, than all religions combined! If they didn't act so violently, with so much hate, bigotry, and cruelty, I wouldn't say anything bad about their Religion!

I read the Quran! Over and over again it condemns Christians (those who join associates with God), polytheists, Jews, and non Muslims, and has much hatred and graphic tortures, mutilations, and amputation of limbs!

If it wasn't so hateful, and Muslims didn't rob hundreds of millions of people of freedom (oppression) in my lifetime, I would love Islam and their prophet!

 

[muhammad_isa]

Muslims oppress and kill more people in the name of God, in my life time, than all religions combined!

That has nothing to do with what I was saying about the "substance" that Jesus is made of.

I suppose you will throw accusations against the so-called Arians in the same fashion.
Muhammad, peace be with him, was not even born yet, when they were outlawed and persecuted.

 

[Brian2]

The triangle was just supposed to be an arrow pointing up at the quoted post.

I don't even know how to type a triangle like that.