Jehovah's Witnesses continuing persecution in Russia....

[oldbadger]

Simpler than that.

Here let me take your money, I will give it to god
for you and he will take the bribe, let you into heaven!!

Oh yeah?
Do you know the one about the cynic that turned friendly jokes into nasty comments?

 

[oldbadger]

I just checked it out on the Australian tax site and it's beyond my comprehension. There seems to be a difference how churches and their various charities are registered, The church itself appears to be a not for profit organisation and their registered charities are separate. But that's only my layman take on legal mumbo jumbo...



No it's more like...

Religious Saviour:- Knock Knock........
Maltese Terrier - YAP YAP YAP (x50)
Me - STOP YAPPING!!! (And pick up the dog)
Religious Saviour:- Good Morning Sir, my name is Michael and I'm from the 'Church of the Holy Saviour who saves sinners' and you Sir are a sinner who I've come to save for Heaven........... Now if you'll just look at this book on this page here, it shows how you.................
Me - I'm not interested, thank you.
Religious Saviour - I would like to show you this one verse which shows the end of the world is imminent.
Me - Still not interested.
Religious Saviour - But the [insert recent natural disaster] is a sign the end is close.
Me - (Put down the dog and return to my previous activity)
Maltese Terrier - YAP YAP YAP (x150)

Wot!! ??
Maltese Terrier? ! No!
I thought that you cobbers had bloody deadly kangaroo hunting hounds or something. Maltese....... oh no......

Now our little daxies are deadly.......... one desperate plea for help from me and they'd clear off down the garden and hide with the ducks!

 

[John53]

It's in Revelation....and it's all taking place.

Such as?

 

[John53]

Wot!! ??
Maltese Terrier? ! No!
I thought that you cobbers had bloody deadly kangaroo hunting hounds or something. Maltese....... oh no......

Now our little daxies are deadly.......... one desperate plea for help from me and they'd clear off down the garden and hide with the ducks!

View attachment 22730

It's even worse than you can imagine, her name is Cuddles but that's not my fault or even the fault of my wife, she was a rescue dog, we didn't name her. If you ever want a daily humbling experience try walking a white fluffy dog named Cuddles -.-

ETA... hmmm the pic works in preview but not in the post

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It's even worse than you can imagine, her name is Cuddles but that's not my fault or even the fault of my wife, she was a rescue dog, we didn't name her. If you ever want a daily humbling experience try walking a white fluffy dog named Cuddles -.-

I have a small fluffy white rescue dog. He's named Ferox and weighs 40kg.

 

[oldbadger]

It's even worse than you can imagine, her name is Cuddles but that's not my fault or even the fault of my wife, she was a rescue dog, we didn't name her. If you ever want a daily humbling experience try walking a white fluffy dog named Cuddles -.-

Ha ha! Yeah...... alright!
But I'll bet that all the ladies come right up to you to stroke and pet her. Sneaky......... I'll need to warn your Missus.

I know this 'cos they all come up to me when out with the hounds. But when out alone the World ignores me.

Have you ever thought of door-knocking for atheism, or double-glazing? Hold that! You're in Oz........... you could door-knock for home air-conditioning systems. I can tell you that you would experience some nasty receptions, but you'd experience some of the finest interactions you ever experienced, meeting some wonderful people, regardless of their beliefs or air-con requirements.

I hope that the UK will never outlaw door-knockers, just because some folks who door-knock are bad. That would be like banning doctors because some mis-diagnose, or solicitors because many are corrupt. In fact many of our professions are riddled with corruption.......... I know 'cos I was a commercial detective, and (dammit) there were a lot of those who were wicked as well.

 

[oldbadger]

I have a small fluffy white rescue dog. He's named Ferox and weighs 40kg.


View attachment 22731

Your dog looks like (what we call) a Samoid. Samoyd?
Lovely dogs.......

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Your dog looks like (what we call) a Samoid. Samoyd?
Lovely dogs.......

He's an Alaskan Malamute with unusually pale markins. He has a couple of little cinamon areas, but he has been mistaken for a samoyed (sp?) before. Both arctic working dogs. Both genetically closer to wolf stock than most domestic breeds.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I would eliminate most or all of their tax exempt status,
for many it is a racket. Why should I subsidize their rec center?

Well, that's why I would be for limiting it to the ones that provide actual charities. Not nonsense like the Salvation Army who only help the people that they agree with. I would still expect pastors and officials to pay their taxes, but so far as taxing the organization itself... A rec center doesn't need subsidized. But if an organization does provide a social service, don't you think they should be allowed to maintain a building and perhaps publication unmolested by the IRS?

 

[John53]

Ha ha! Yeah...... alright!
But I'll bet that all the ladies come right up to you to stroke and pet her. Sneaky......... I'll need to warn your Missus.

I didn't say it was all bad but there are times like sitting in the vet with about 10 other people then the big burly vet comes out, yells CUDDLES and I stand up.

I know this 'cos they all come up to me when out with the hounds. But when out alone the World ignores me.

I was hidden in plain sight but I'm now known around town as the old fat bloke with the fluffy white dog or the weirdo who sits by the river all day with the big camera or the bloke married to the American woman.

Have you ever thought of door-knocking for atheism, or double-glazing? Hold that! You're in Oz........... you could door-knock for home air-conditioning systems. I can tell you that you would experience some nasty receptions, but you'd experience some of the finest interactions you ever experienced, meeting some wonderful people, regardless of their beliefs or air-con requirements.

I wouldn't mind visiting a few JW or LDS churches and discuss important stuff like line dancing or duel carburettors or something else I don't understand but that would just be for my own sense of payback, I wouldn't want to annoy average people enjoying their weekend.

I hope that the UK will never outlaw door-knockers, just because some folks who door-knock are bad. That would be like banning doctors because some mis-diagnose, or solicitors because many are corrupt. In fact many of our professions are riddled with corruption.......... I know 'cos I was a commercial detective, and (dammit) there were a lot of those who were wicked as well.

Which is why I joined this thread in the first place, there is good and evil in all groups of people.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A government can make its own laws and we don't have to like them. Some of them are extremely unjust.
Russia's treatment of LGBT people is no different to many other nations, particularly in Muslim countries, some of which still execute gays. I heard on the news this morning that in Indonesia 1 in 4 gays is HIV positive....mostly because of hiding away from education about its transmission, fearing arrest and humiliation from the authorities.

We arrive at our rules for living by adhering to the Bible's standards of morality. One of the things condemned in God's moral laws is the practice of homosexuality. Yet we have gay people in our ranks. Being gay is not against God's law because this is the way people are born usually. A person can no more help being gay than they can being born with any other genetic abnormality. (And since sex is designed for procreation, gays can't have children without third party intervention) What can be controlled however, is one's behavior. The Bible speaks of people who "make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom"...or in other words, they refrain from sexual activity for which God does not give them permission.

For us, (and please understand that we have no say over what others choose to do) marriage is the only state where two people of the opposite sex can come together in sexual union....with all that it entails. (Becoming parents and role models for their children in a family unit) That applies to heterosexual couples as well. Sex outside of marriage is a breach of God's laws....regardless of gender.

There is no room in God's definition of "marriage" for males to marry males, or females to marry females, so gay people cannot marry in our brotherhood. If they choose celibacy in order to become and to remain Christians, then that is a sacrifice that God recognizes, appreciates and rewards. Celibacy is not life threatening. It just requires that a person love God more than they love their own flesh.

So our treatment of "gay" people is not to ostracize or condemn them, but to encourage and commend them for their sacrifice if they choose to serve God as "eunuchs". It is a choice. We believe that in the world to come, all physical and mental aberrations will be eliminated and people will no longer desire to engage in behavior that God condemns.

I asked you that question to see how much compassion you would show for another group going through something similar to the Russian treatment of JWs you described. I didn't see any.

Should we just shrug off JW mistreatment the way you shrug off LGBT mistreatment? "A government can make its own laws and we don't have to like them. Some of them are extremely unjust."

 

[Audie]

I wonder if that would be a good thing if all communication services went down in your city and Emergency Services Personnel wanted to knock on your door to tell you that a massive earthquake had occurred and the resulting tsunami was bearing down on NYC and expected to wipe out a good portion of the city....and your building was directly in its path? There was a 6 hour window to get to safety, but it took them 5 and a half hours to reach your door. They had a helicopter waiting but you had to rely on your own power to get you out of there because there was no room in the helicopter for anyone but the ESP.

We have a message with the same dire warning about what is coming upon this earth in the not too distant future. If people don't want to hear it, we can't make them...nor do we want to.

This is a scenario of such extreme improbability!
(both of them)

You wont want to hear it, but if you read a bit on
the psychology of groups esp re their ability to
get members to believe the unbelievable*, you might
get some insights. Esp if you separated yourself
from the group long enough for your own mind to
emerge.

Mom encouraged me in the practice of stopping
sometimes, to stand back and examine my life
and beliefs, with a lot of "what if I am wrong?"
Existential questions about the most fundamental
things.

Maybe you dont do that. I kinda think you avoid it?


*kool aid and the spaceship / comet come to mind.
The phenomenon is real, and all to often demonstrated.
All the alr right that were so sure (had talked eachother
believing) that the invasion of Iraq would be terrif.

Smart people seemingly in control of their faculties,
lots of good info available. But they sure got it as
wrong as one could possibly get.

 

[Audie]

I asked you that question to see how much compassion you would show for another group going through something similar to the Russian treatment of JWs you described. I didn't see any.

Should we just shrug off JW mistreatment the way you shrug off LGBT mistreatment? "A government can make its own laws and we don't have to like them. Some of them are extremely unjust."

So much of JW ideology is based on facts that
are not facts, denial of simple realities.

Note the use of quotation marks-"gay". The statement
that it is a choice. Black and white,

I know the nicest lady, who was so brutalized
that she is simply cannot let a man touch her.
She did not choose that. She lives with another
woman who survived similar treatment by a man.

So, they should both be condemned to a life, sterile of love?
Yeah, I saw the thing about "loving god".

I've a notion that the talibans and the jws would turn
out to not be so different, when they describe the
paradise they think they are helping god to establish.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I wonder if that would be a good thing if all communication services went down in your city and Emergency Services Personnel wanted to knock on your door to tell you that a massive earthquake had occurred and the resulting tsunami was bearing down on NYC and expected to wipe out a good portion of the city....and your building was directly in its path? There was a 6 hour window to get to safety, but it took them 5 and a half hours to reach your door. They had a helicopter waiting but you had to rely on your own power to get you out of there because there was no room in the helicopter for anyone but the ESP.

We have a message with the same dire warning about what is coming upon this earth in the not too distant future. If people don't want to hear it, we can't make them...nor do we want to.

The difference is that the emergency services have a level of credibility the JWs don't. If a police officer showed up at my door in the scenario you describe, sure, I'd listen. If some random person I didn't know? I'd ask for at least a little supporting evidence first.

 

[Deeje]

I asked you that question to see how much compassion you would show for another group going through something similar to the Russian treatment of JWs you described. I didn't see any.

Sorry, I didn't know the answer had to be laced with emotion. I answered the question with the facts. If I lived my life feeling overwhelmed about all the injustices in the world, I think I might have topped myself way before now.....and that is just the human suffering....don't get me started on what humans are doing to animals, which are also God's creation. My compassion is tempered with hope for a better future.....promised by the Creator of it all....what hope is your compassion tempered with? Can you count on man to fix this mess...? You better not hold your breath.

Should we just shrug off JW mistreatment the way you shrug off LGBT mistreatment? "A government can make its own laws and we don't have to like them. Some of them are extremely unjust."

Did I shrug it off? No injustice sits well with any fair minded person. I expect that compassion will come with people who are without unfounded prejudices. There will always be people who look at injustice and see justice. It all depends on our perspective and how we view the rights of others.

JW's take their queues from God's word....and we leave the judgment up to him. He makes the rules for us and he tells us that injustice can be expected in a world where his rules don't mean much.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry, I didn't know the answer had to be laced with emotion. I answered the question with the facts. If I lived my life feeling overwhelmed about all the injustices in the world, I think I might have topped myself way before now.....and that is just the human suffering....don't get me started on what humans are doing to animals, which are also God's creation. My compassion is tempered with hope for a better future.....promised by the Creator of it all....what hope is your compassion tempered with? Can you count on man to fix this mess...? You better not hold your breath.



Did I shrug it off? No injustice sits well with any fair minded person. I expect that compassion will come with people who are without unfounded prejudices. There will always be people who look at injustice and see justice. It all depends on our perspective and how we view the rights of others.

JW's take their queues from God's word....and we leave the judgment up to him. He makes the rules for us and he tells us that injustice can be expected in a world where his rules don't mean much.

If that's your attitude toward injustice, why the OP?

 

[Audie]

Oh yeah?
Do you know the one about the cynic that turned friendly jokes into nasty comments?

Cynic?

It is nasty, for sure, what churches do. True, the RCs dont
sell indulgences any more, at least not directly. They still
pass them out, and you still have to pay. (Bribe)

You goddies continue to support such nastiness, with churches
preying esp on elderly widows.

Well pardonez - moi for being so insensitive as to mention it.

 

[Deeje]

The difference is that the emergency services have a level of credibility the JWs don't. If a police officer showed up at my door in the scenario you describe, sure, I'd listen. If some random person I didn't know? I'd ask for at least a little supporting evidence first.

Fair enough, but the things is.....people will always be stumbled by the appearance of the messenger. What if the person at the door was a disheveled homeless man who was one of many who had volunteered to help the ESP to warn people of an approaching disaster because they needed more helping hands? Who would take him seriously? But, does his appearance change the urgency of the message?
Even if he had a hastily hand-written authorization card around his neck stating that he was part of a ES volunteer program, would you then trust his message? Aren't appearances how we judge people?

I saw an experiment once where a man was dressed as a homeless person and pretended to collapse in the street, just to see how many people would stop to help him. Almost every person walked by without paying much attention. Then they dressed the same man in a suit and tie and when he collapsed in the street, lots of people came running to help him. Whether we like it or not, we all judge by appearances....or by what we have been told about certain people.

The Bible uses the example of Noah. He had a life saving message for the people of his day and it was met with ridicule and derision.....all they saw was a religious "nutter" building an enormous structure in a huge section of cleared land, nowhere near water, predicting that a global flood would wipe out all life outside of that structure. How likely would it be that people would believe him? His lifestyle was completely the opposite of the one they were living, and he informed them that the violence and wickedness of that world was about to come to an end. They carried on regardless.

It took Noah and his family decades to build that "ark" and to stock it ready for the survival of all on board.....and the more time went on with no flood happening, the more ridicule he received. But once the rain started to fall, and kept falling in torrents to the point where there was inundation to the highest points in their land, what do you imagine might have been going through their minds as they were swept away, trying to keep their heads above water?......have you seen the power of a flash flood?

Whether seen as literal or not, what is the lesson? Do people have to be in water over their heads before they believe someone who tried to warn them about a flood?

If that's your attitude toward injustice, why the OP?

It was just to see how people reacted. It is interesting how a subject like that divides people on the subject of injustice. Its also interesting to see how prejudice alters perceptions of how fair an action is.

Sometimes in matters of political injustice, public opinion can sway governments to ease up a bit if they want to win the next election. All we ask is for the freedom to practice our faith as peaceful, law-abiding people. How are we a threat to any government as politically neutral, unarmed non-violent citizens, who pay their taxes and who are now being punished for it at the behest of a corrupt religious body manipulating their government? Isn't that exactly what the Jews did with Jesus?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How are we a threat to any government as politically neutral, unarmed non-violent citizens, who pay their taxes and who are now being punished for it at the behest of a corrupt religious body manipulating their government? Isn't that exactly what the Jews did with Jesus?

You aren’t a threat to any government.

You are a threat to children who need blood transfusions, kids who are sexually assaulted by members of your flock, and families who are torn apart by shunning, but you aren’t a threat to governments.

 

[Deeje]

You aren’t a threat to any government.

You are a threat to children who need blood transfusions, kids who are sexually assaulted by members of your flock, and families who are torn apart by shunning, but you aren’t a threat to governments.

What an incredibly ignorant statement.