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Jehovah's Witnesses continuing persecution in Russia....

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
We all need protection from that............ being bullied by the Mrs.... :D

I like it, no protection needed.

See? If your Mrs thinks you've watched too much speedway, or IT perusal, she can send you down the shops, or into the garden.......... and you're worried about some student calling who wants you to sign a Direct Debit for $3 a month to save donkeys in Africa. I like getting asked to sign bank orders for lost ponies, water bore holes which lower the water table thus needing more bore holes, food shipments to ports held by terrorists etc because I get my dose of weekly mirth out of of it. The last student who wanted a monthly gift off me for saving dangerous dogs (whatever) discovered that her charity's CEO earns £150,000 pa because I googled it all on the doorstep in about 45 seconds.

Without these callers my world might be a much more staid and glum place to live in.

Please please don't get 'em banned. :p


They'll never make it law here, I reckon, 'cos all the political parties leaflet drop before elections. You see? It'll always be perfectly legal to knock at your door to ask, 'please may I give you this?'
If nicked for it, all the defendant has to tell the judge is,' Yer 'onner, I just wanned ter give this 'ouse'older a nice brochure on our scrap metal collection service, is all....'

etc etc...... :p

You're not giving the Government enough credit, there are 2 exceptions to the do not call list, registered charities and political parties. They could do the same for the do not knock list.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Have you become this thread's sniper John 53?
fighting0035.gif


We have peace and love because we do not tolerate those who want to use their religion as an excuse to practice what God condemns. I don't see anyone with a big stick forcing anyone to break God's law...do you? Those people who want to do that are not welcome in our brotherhood and we make no apology for that. The ones who are welcome can come from any of those descriptors as long as it is in their past and they have no desire to repeat their error. God is forgiving as long as we don't use his forgiveness to keep doing what we know is wrong.

Barring them from your church & religious services is fair enough but ostracising people to the point where you deliberately cut them off from friends & family who are quite possibly the only real or reliable social network they have - simply because because they've done something that goes against your sect's teachings is cruel to the point of being malicious. People are born human before they're [insert religious label here].

Imagine if society started cutting faithful Jehovah's Witnesses congregations & members off from vital services such as food, water, healthcare, public amenities etc because of what they believe - but only until they renounced their faith in the Watchtower Society's orthodoxy. You might view that as a sign that you're in the right but it would undoubtedly cause harm to those affected; at least at first. Such harm would be cruel & tragic, would it not?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Have you become this thread's sniper John 53?
fighting0035.gif


We have peace and love because we do not tolerate those who want to use their religion as an excuse to practice what God condemns. I don't see anyone with a big stick forcing anyone to break God's law...do you? Those people who want to do that are not welcome in our brotherhood and we make no apology for that. The ones who are welcome can come from any of those descriptors as long as it is in their past and they have no desire to repeat their error. God is forgiving as long as we don't use his forgiveness to keep doing what we know is wrong.
Out of curiosity: how do you feel about Russian treament of LGBT people?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Barring them from your church & religious services is fair enough but ostracising people to the point where you deliberately cut them off from friends & family who are quite possibly the only real or reliable social network they have - simply because because they've done something that goes against your sect's teachings is cruel to the point of being malicious. People are born human before they're [insert religious label here].

Imagine if society started cutting faithful Jehovah's Witnesses congregations & members off from vital services such as food, water, healthcare, public amenities etc because of what they believe - but only until they renounced their faith in the Watchtower Society's orthodoxy. You might view that as a sign that you're in the right but it would undoubtedly cause harm to those affected; at least at first. Such harm would be cruel & tragic, would it not?


Hey, fair is fair but not if it goes not to one's advantage
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Well it's an improvement. I still disagree with you. I don't believe that Christians (or even JWs) are real threat to the Chinese government. They have the largest population in the world so there is no chance of ever converting everyone.

The Chinese government also persecutes the Falun Gong. The Falun Gong believe they must tell 100% truth all the time. So why does the Chinese government persecute them? Clearly they consider the truth to be a threat! Governments around the world (including the US government) now believe their strength is in deception. They do not believe that honesty is a good policy. I believe they're making a big mistake.


Dont do topic drift. I did not say "threat" nor is this
about the righteousness of govt deception.

JW are an anti-social force, as is the similarly
ill-advised falun gong cult.

An ant in the kitchen is not a "threat" either.

But do you ignore, or encourage it?

No good comes from anti intellectual, anti social
cults. They are the less desirable for being western
cultural imperialism. You guys did enough with your
opium.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Have you become this thread's sniper John 53?
fighting0035.gif


We have peace and love because we do not tolerate those who want to use their religion as an excuse to practice what God condemns. I don't see anyone with a big stick forcing anyone to break God's law...do you? Those people who want to do that are not welcome in our brotherhood and we make no apology for that. The ones who are welcome can come from any of those descriptors as long as it is in their past and they have no desire to repeat their error. God is forgiving as long as we don't use his forgiveness to keep doing what we know is wrong.

Out of curiosity: how do you feel about Russian treament of LGBT people?

More specifically, how do you feel about Chechen treatment of LGBT people?
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I like it, no protection needed.

You're not giving the Government enough credit, there are 2 exceptions to the do not call list, registered charities and political parties. They could do the same for the do not knock list.

I just thought.......... many religions are registered as charities.

Religious Saviour:- Knock Knock........
John53:- What!
Religious Saviour:- Good Morning Sir, my name is Michael and I'm from the 'Church of the Holy Saviour who saves sinners' and you Sir are a sinner who I've come to save for Heaven........... Now if you'll just look at this book on this page here, it shows how you.................

:p
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I just thought.......... many religions are registered as charities.

Religious Saviour:- Knock Knock........
John53:- What!
Religious Saviour:- Good Morning Sir, my name is Michael and I'm from the 'Church of the Holy Saviour who saves sinners' and you Sir are a sinner who I've come to save for Heaven........... Now if you'll just look at this book on this page here, it shows how you.................

:p

Simpler than that.

Here let me take your money, I will give it to god
for you and he will take the bribe, let you into heaven!!
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I just thought.......... many religions are registered as charities.

I just checked it out on the Australian tax site and it's beyond my comprehension. There seems to be a difference how churches and their various charities are registered, The church itself appears to be a not for profit organisation and their registered charities are separate. But that's only my layman take on legal mumbo jumbo...

Religious Saviour:- Knock Knock........
John53:- What!
Religious Saviour:- Good Morning Sir, my name is Michael and I'm from the 'Church of the Holy Saviour who saves sinners' and you Sir are a sinner who I've come to save for Heaven........... Now if you'll just look at this book on this page here, it shows how you.................

:p

No it's more like...

Religious Saviour:- Knock Knock........
Maltese Terrier - YAP YAP YAP (x50)
Me - STOP YAPPING!!! (And pick up the dog)
Religious Saviour:- Good Morning Sir, my name is Michael and I'm from the 'Church of the Holy Saviour who saves sinners' and you Sir are a sinner who I've come to save for Heaven........... Now if you'll just look at this book on this page here, it shows how you.................
Me - I'm not interested, thank you.
Religious Saviour - I would like to show you this one verse which shows the end of the world is imminent.
Me - Still not interested.
Religious Saviour - But the [insert recent natural disaster] is a sign the end is close.
Me - (Put down the dog and return to my previous activity)
Maltese Terrier - YAP YAP YAP (x150)
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I just checked it out on the Australian tax site and it's beyond my comprehension. There seems to be a difference how churches and their various charities are registered, The church itself appears to be a not for profit organisation and their registered charities are separate. But that's only my layman take on legal mumbo jumbo...



No it's more like...

Religious Saviour:- Knock Knock........
Maltese Terrier - YAP YAP YAP (x50)
Me - STOP YAPPING!!! (And pick up the dog)
Religious Saviour:- Good Morning Sir, my name is Michael and I'm from the 'Church of the Holy Saviour who saves sinners' and you Sir are a sinner who I've come to save for Heaven........... Now if you'll just look at this book on this page here, it shows how you.................
Me - I'm not interested, thank you.
Religious Saviour - I would like to show you this one verse which shows the end of the world is imminent.
Me - Still not interested.
Religious Saviour - But the [insert recent natural disaster] is a sign the end is close.
Me - (Put down the dog and return to my previous activity)
Maltese Terrier - YAP YAP YAP (x150)


NYC flat they cannot get anywhere near my door.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Barring them from your church & religious services is fair enough but ostracising people to the point where you deliberately cut them off from friends & family who are quite possibly the only real or reliable social network they have - simply because because they've done something that goes against your sect's teachings is cruel to the point of being malicious.

Let me first address this statement. What do most people (on the outside looking in) understand about our policy of zero tolerance of deliberate wrongdoing and subsequent disfellowshipping?

Do you understand that no one can "join" Jehovah's Witnesses like some sort of club? We are bound by an oath to God at our baptism to uphold the laws of God as taught by his son. We also understand that it allows no willful or deliberate act of breaching God's laws without penalty. Does that mean that we don't make mistakes or have lapses in judgment for which we can seek forgiveness? NO!

We have elders in our congregations who have heavy responsibilities to make sure that no bad influences remain to corrupt others. These elders (usually a body of three) hear accusations and claims of wrongdoing and make careful examination of the evidence brought before them. In congregations where people from many nationalities and backgrounds mix as equals, problems will inevitably arise. No one is disfellowshipped from our ranks without incontrovertible evidence that they have unrepentantly broken God's law.

I emphasise the word "unrepentantly" because, if someone is genuinely sorry and humbly seeks God's forgiveness, there may be some disciplinary measures taken, (depending on the severity of the breach) but no disfellowshipping will take place. There will only be loving encouragement to keep improving.

Those who refuse to accept responsibility for their proven actions OTOH, either in denying them, or trying to shift the blame on others, will receive counsel and encouragement to reconsider their stance. If they still refuse these efforts to help them, then they leave the elders no choice. Disfellowshipping will take place but only after many attempts to help the person see why they are making a big mistake. Disfellowshipping has one of two potential outcomes.....it either leads to a humble confession and realisation of their actions, or it invokes pride and anger resulting in a vengeful spirit. Those are the ones who post their sob stories online.

The example of the prodigal son is a powerful lesson in tough love. (Luke 15:11-32)

The errant son, squandered his whole inheritance on a debauched life, but when his money ran out, so did his "friends". Alone and destitute, he realized how good his life had been in his father's household, despite the rules he imposed. Humbled by his current state, he decided to return to his Father, not as an entitled son, but as merely one of his hired workers.

His father had made no effort to contact his son or to offer incentives for him to return home....it had to be his decision, based on his own reasons and feelings. When the father saw his son in the distance returning home, he did not wait for him to walk in the door and grovel....but ran to meet him, aware of his contrite state and knowing his feelings of humiliation.

We have so many 'prodigals' who return to us, lessons learned and discipline appreciated. (Hebrews 12:5-6) We are saddened by the ones who only want revenge......

Imagine if society started cutting faithful Jehovah's Witnesses congregations & members off from vital services such as food, water, healthcare, public amenities etc because of what they believe - but only until they renounced their faith in the Watchtower Society's orthodoxy. You might view that as a sign that you're in the right but it would undoubtedly cause harm to those affected; at least at first. Such harm would be cruel & tragic, would it not?

Would it surprise you to learn that we are preparing to deal with that very situation? According to Bible prophesy, this world will soon be ruled by one world government. (It has been mooted in the UN for decades now) They will rule by the will of the nations, believing that true peace and security can only be achieved under the rule of one global government, with one set of laws for all. The first and most divisive element to be removed will be religion. It will sound like a good solution to the current state of affairs.....but there will be a sting in the tail. Totalitarian rule comes with enormous power, which we all know corrupts humans horribly.
There will be no activity that will not be controlled by them and enforced by a global military police force in combat gear, already trained for the job. Have you seen them?

People will walk into this situation with blinded eyes, believing the propaganda.....and they will rue the day they gave up their hard earned freedoms to achieve a pipe dream.....world peace under human control.....but it is a recipe for world chaos. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it, and this prophesy was written almost 2,000 years ago. We see it coming.....do you? Only God has the solution.
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Out of curiosity: how do you feel about Russian treament of LGBT people?

A government can make its own laws and we don't have to like them. Some of them are extremely unjust.
Russia's treatment of LGBT people is no different to many other nations, particularly in Muslim countries, some of which still execute gays. I heard on the news this morning that in Indonesia 1 in 4 gays is HIV positive....mostly because of hiding away from education about its transmission, fearing arrest and humiliation from the authorities.

We arrive at our rules for living by adhering to the Bible's standards of morality. One of the things condemned in God's moral laws is the practice of homosexuality. Yet we have gay people in our ranks. Being gay is not against God's law because this is the way people are born usually. A person can no more help being gay than they can being born with any other genetic abnormality. (And since sex is designed for procreation, gays can't have children without third party intervention) What can be controlled however, is one's behavior. The Bible speaks of people who "make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom"...or in other words, they refrain from sexual activity for which God does not give them permission.

For us, (and please understand that we have no say over what others choose to do) marriage is the only state where two people of the opposite sex can come together in sexual union....with all that it entails. (Becoming parents and role models for their children in a family unit) That applies to heterosexual couples as well. Sex outside of marriage is a breach of God's laws....regardless of gender.

There is no room in God's definition of "marriage" for males to marry males, or females to marry females, so gay people cannot marry in our brotherhood. If they choose celibacy in order to become and to remain Christians, then that is a sacrifice that God recognizes, appreciates and rewards. Celibacy is not life threatening. It just requires that a person love God more than they love their own flesh.

So our treatment of "gay" people is not to ostracize or condemn them, but to encourage and commend them for their sacrifice if they choose to serve God as "eunuchs". It is a choice. We believe that in the world to come, all physical and mental aberrations will be eliminated and people will no longer desire to engage in behavior that God condemns.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
NYC flat they cannot get anywhere near my door.

I wonder if that would be a good thing if all communication services went down in your city and Emergency Services Personnel wanted to knock on your door to tell you that a massive earthquake had occurred and the resulting tsunami was bearing down on NYC and expected to wipe out a good portion of the city....and your building was directly in its path? :shrug: There was a 6 hour window to get to safety, but it took them 5 and a half hours to reach your door. They had a helicopter waiting but you had to rely on your own power to get you out of there because there was no room in the helicopter for anyone but the ESP.

We have a message with the same dire warning about what is coming upon this earth in the not too distant future. If people don't want to hear it, we can't make them...nor do we want to.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I wonder if that would be a good thing if all communication services went down in your city and Emergency Services Personnel wanted to knock on your door to tell you that a massive earthquake had occurred and the resulting tsunami was bearing down on NYC and expected to wipe out a good portion of the city....and your building was directly in its path? :shrug: There was a 6 hour window to get to safety, but it took them 5 and a half hours to reach your door. They had a helicopter waiting but you had to rely on your own power to get you out of there because there was no room in the helicopter for anyone but the ESP.

We have a message with the same dire warning about what is coming upon this earth in the not too distant future. If people don't want to hear it, we can't make them...nor do we want to.

If you are allowed to lidten to music, Emmylou Harris' song "Satan's Jewel Crown"
seems apt. https://www.google.com/search?sourc...i10j0i22i10i30j33i22i29i30j33i21.ymLs9L4E+WI=

One of the lines is about

"On the 31st floor
A gold plated door
Wont keep out the Lord's
Burning rain."
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Would it surprise you to learn that we are preparing to deal with that very situation? According to Bible prophesy, this world will soon be ruled by one world government. (It has been mooted in the UN for decades now) They will rule by the will of the nations, believing that true peace and security can only be achieved under the rule of one global government, with one set of laws for all. The first and most divisive element to be removed will be religion. It will sound like a good solution to the current state of affairs.....but there will be a sting in the tail. Totalitarian rule comes with enormous power, which we all know corrupts humans horribly.
There will be no activity that will not be controlled by them and enforced by a global military police force in combat gear, already trained for the job. Have you seen them?

People will walk into this situation with blinded eyes, believing the propaganda.....and they will rue the day they gave up their hard earned freedoms to achieve a pipe dream.....world peace under human control.....but it is a recipe for world chaos. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it, and this prophesy was written almost 2,000 years ago. We see it coming.....do you? Only God has the solution.

What evidence do you have for any of this nonsense?
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I wonder if that would be a good thing if all communication services went down in your city and Emergency Services Personnel wanted to knock on your door to tell you that a massive earthquake had occurred and the resulting tsunami was bearing down on NYC and expected to wipe out a good portion of the city....and your building was directly in its path? :shrug: There was a 6 hour window to get to safety, but it took them 5 and a half hours to reach your door. They had a helicopter waiting but you had to rely on your own power to get you out of there because there was no room in the helicopter for anyone but the ESP.

We have a message with the same dire warning about what is coming upon this earth in the not too distant future. If people don't want to hear it, we can't make them...nor do we want to.

Which message is that? 1914? 1925? 1975? The generation of 1914 or perhaps the overlapping generation? Or another I haven't heard about yet?
 
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