Jesus and Money

[Me Myself]

I don't think he wants us to live in such extreme poverty that we have no food or medicine and therefore we die, or that he wants us not to work. Why would he say to give to the poor if he expected all of us all to live in such extreme poverty that we die? Wouldn't he then just say to destroy your possessions and money? To me it seems like it's all about working towards a general equality, and to me that's very logical.[/B]

This.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't think he wants us to live in such extreme poverty that we have no food or medicine and therefore we die, or that he wants us not to work. Why would he say to give to the poor if he expected all of us all to live in such extreme poverty that we die? Wouldn't he then just say to destroy your possessions and money? To me it seems like it's all about working towards a general equality, and to me that's very logical.

That's fine, nothing wrong with desiring equality. But how about bringing everyone up to your level instead of going down to theirs. Everyone should prosper, nothing wrong with it, as long as it is not at the expense of someone else.

I just think he had very different expectations for his disciples. Those that would take up, bear the cross of being a Prophet/Son of God however you choose to see it. He obviously wanted to help the sick and poor and needy. He didn't expect them all to take up the cross and follow in his path. At least not until they were ready for such a commitment.

I would love to be rich. While it's not necessary to be happy I think money is a tool that can be used to help others. I would probably look to support individual craftsmen. Not big companies. If I buy something beautiful and well designed, I'm helping to support that craftsman and his/her family not some over paid CEO. Artist, Singer, people who excel at their work deserved to be supported, I think. Everyone should be encourage to contribute the best they can. As long as it's their best then it's good enough.

Don't know that CEOs contribute much but a lot of BS. Sometimes though it seems BS makes the world go around so they get over valued.

 

[Hexavibrongal]

I would love to be rich.

Considering you live in California and use a computer, then it is unlikely that you are below the top 15% income-wise in the world. If you make $22k per year, then you're in the top 10%. If you make $60k per year, you're in the top 1%. How high does your worldwide income rank have to get before you're 'rich' and it's time to start helping others with your money?

 

[Nakosis]

Considering you live in California and use a computer, then it is unlikely that you are below the top 15% income-wise in the world. If you make $22k per year, then you're in the top 10%. If you make $60k per year, you're in the top 1%. How high does your worldwide income rank have to get before you're 'rich' and it's time to start helping others with your money?

One who is part of the economy is constantly helping others. Every time you buy something, earn money you are paying taxes. You employee someone you are helping them and their family. Under $250K about 1/3 of your income is taxed. Over it's 50%. It used to be 70%. Still a number of the rich in addition donate time, services and money to charity.

I don't think the rich are the problem, it's the government and financial institutions.

Imagine half your income gone to help others before you even see it. Whenever you buy things your helping someone. Putting lots of people to work. Helping to create jobs etc.

It's only when people start to horde the money things go south. Or when people don't contribute.

 

[idav]

One who is part of the economy is constantly helping others. Every time you buy something, earn money you are paying taxes. You employee someone you are helping them and their family. Under $250K about 1/3 of your income is taxed. Over it's 50%. It used to be 70%. Still a number of the rich in addition donate time, services and money to charity.

I don't think the rich are the problem, it's the government and financial institutions.

Imagine half your income gone to help others before you even see it. Whenever you buy things your helping someone. Putting lots of people to work. Helping to create jobs etc.

It's only when people start to horde the money things go south. Or when people don't contribute.

Unfortunately, in our economy, most of the time we buy we are helping the richest elite. You have to make conscious decisions to help local businesses rather than saving money at wal mart.

 

[Nakosis]

Unfortunately, in our economy, most of the time we buy we are helping the richest elite. You have to make conscious decisions to help local businesses rather than saving money at wal mart.

Of course. That decision is up to you the individual. Nothing wrong with being prosperous but one should support the prosperity of others as well.

In the Biblical stories of King Solomon everyone was prosperous because of his wisdom.

 

[waitasec]

I heard awhile back about the tent or gate story being "eye of the needle" definition given. I watched it on the History Channel, I watch all those shows- I find them interesting
All I was saying was that Jesus was speaking to the man alone. Nowadays, everyone reads the gospels, but back in those days people had to travel by camel, on foot, etc. to get to place to place. I don't wish to insult your intelligence, but this was 2,000 years ago. He was speaking to a small crowd at the most. He didn't repeat it over and over to each group He spoke to or if He did, how would we know?
And I did not say it only applied to rich men, that was an example. I would think that it can apply to anything that could be put ahead of God. Some people can be rich and never put their money ahead of God, while someone who isn't as rich may always put money ahead of God. Sometimes it can something else, like food, drugs, alcohol, shoes, etc. We are supposed to put God first in our lives. And our families also need to be taken care of.

so how does one figure out if jesus was speaking to a person and only that person and when he is speaking to you, today?

how does one know when to apply his teachings on a personal level...?
love your neighbor for instance, how do we know he meant love everyone and not just your fellow jewish neighbor, as a jew.
if you look in the context of leviticus, where jesus quoted from, god is speaking to the israelites.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

My question is: how do Christians manage to (apparently) ignore what Jesus said about money: "sell all your possessions and give your money to the poor", "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God", "Do not accumulate treasures on earth where moth and rust corrupt", "...you cannot serve God and money." I've heard that money was one of the things he mentioned most frequently.

I certainly understand that it's not so simple to just give away everything. But too many Christians I meet seem to have given up and are slowly accumulating more money and possessions thinking that it's okay as long as it's not "out of control". And consider that I live in America where even the very poor with adjustments for cost of living still have more money than 60%-70% of the rest of the world, and many people I've met in church must be in the top 1% of the world as far as income!

Personally, I've found that if you work on the money issue through prayer and meditation, you'll gradually be able to peel away your money and possessions without missing them. I'm a long way from being where I want to be with money, but I have cut my spending substantially by cooking simple healthy food at home, avoiding buying gadgets or things I don't need, selling quite a bit of my stuff that I don't need each time I move, buying clothes almost exclusively from thrift stores, learning to cut my own hair, etc. It took me a long time to be comfortable with this, but now I wouldn't have it any other way.

Last year I followed Jesus' advice on how to pay taxes. There was no gold in the fishes' mouth so I just sent in the fish. I was audited.

 

[Sleeppy]

Jesus was being quite literal. He knew it wouldn't be accepted by everyone.

The command is against greed. While there are people starving, eat to survive and give the rest. Clothe to be clothed and give the rest. Etc.

Very simple.

 

[Me Myself]

That's fine, nothing wrong with desiring equality. But how about bringing everyone up to your level instead of going down to theirs. Everyone should prosper, nothing wrong with it, as long as it is not at the expense of someone else.

What makes you think we can all live in big mansions driving different cars every day of the week? We can though, all live with enough to eat and good place to live, etc. But people with money have to actually give a ****

I would love to be rich. While it's not necessary to be happy I think money is a tool that can be used to help others. I would probably look to support individual craftsmen. Not big companies. If I buy something beautiful and well designed, I'm helping to support that craftsman and his/her family not some over paid CEO. Artist, Singer, people who excel at their work deserved to be supported, I think. Everyone should be encourage to contribute the best they can. As long as it's their best then it's good enough.

I would guess you would like a big mansion with lots of unnecesary very expensive stuff that ultimately do next to nothing to help starving kids in somalia?

Going by the way Jesus judged this things: How much % of your money would be used to help your brothers? 10%? 30%? 50%? 90%? I say this because it is not important how much you give in money quantity, but how much you give of what you truly need or don´t. You don´t really need a pool, you don´t need a house as big as a mansion. You don´t need the finest clothes. There is much you would not need and that you may want to have if you were rich.

I am not saying being rich is wrong. I know if I were rich I wouldn´t probably live in a big house, just an appropiate house. Pay good education for my children, have life ensurances and other ensurances, etc. Then it can go to making a bussiness of which my personal profit went only or mostly to charity (provided I got enough money to comfortably live with without it. And comfortably wouldn´t mean more luxury than what I have now)

It´s just an example. Most people with money just spend it in expensive *** that they don´t need

 

[Me Myself]

One who is part of the economy is constantly helping others. Every time you buy something, earn money you are paying taxes. You employee someone you are helping them and their family. Under $250K about 1/3 of your income is taxed. Over it's 50%. It used to be 70%. Still a number of the rich in addition donate time, services and money to charity.

I don't think the rich are the problem, it's the government and financial institutions.

Imagine half your income gone to help others before you even see it. Whenever you buy things your helping someone. Putting lots of people to work. Helping to create jobs etc.

It's only when people start to horde the money things go south. Or when people don't contribute.

Tell that to the children working in china that don´t even get paid the first month of work so they don´t leave the company (and yes, it actually helps them not leave the company )

Instead of buying the 8th car in a row for your collection and indirectly help people of middle to upper class in yours and other countries, what if you just give the money to grameen Foundation and ACTUALLY help with the full 100% of it a very poor family so they can start a business. Sensical?

 

[waitasec]

Jesus was being quite literal. He knew it wouldn't be accepted by everyone.

The command is against greed. While there are people starving, eat to survive and give the rest. Clothe to be clothed and give the rest. Etc.

Very simple.

consider the lilies of the field
and don't worry about tomorrow for it will take care of itself...

 

[waitasec]

matthew 6
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,[c] your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy,[d] your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Do Not Worry

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

sell all your worldly possessions believers.... jesus is coming soon...
therefore deposit your cash to my paypal account...i'm in need of some cash!! :shout

god will take care of you until he comes to take you home
:sarcastic

 

[Nakosis]

Tell that to the children working in china that don´t even get paid the first month of work so they don´t leave the company (and yes, it actually helps them not leave the company )

Instead of buying the 8th car in a row for your collection and indirectly help people of middle to upper class in yours and other countries, what if you just give the money to grameen Foundation and ACTUALLY help with the full 100% of it a very poor family so they can start a business. Sensical?

Grameen sounds like a good organization. They became prosperous helping others become more prosperous. Nothing wrong with that. I heard the guy who started it is going to use the money he received from the Nobel prize he won to start another business. Exactly the kind of rich person who should be supported.

By the way did the founder Muhammed Yunus ever get clear of improperly diverting 100 million or so dollars from being used to aid the poor? I'm sure it was just a clerical error. I hope so... He's suppose to be my poster boy of the ideal rich person.

 

[ChristineES]

matthew 6
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,[c] your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy,[d] your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Do Not Worry

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

sell all your worldly possessions believers.... jesus is coming soon...
therefore deposit your cash to my paypal account...i'm in need of some cash!! :shout

god will take care of you until he comes to take you home
:sarcastic

I don't think anyone would benefit from anything I have. I doubt if I sold everything that is mine in our mobile home, I would get $100 for it. Then I would have to live under a bridge with two special needs sons. Even we who read the Bible can tell what is relevant to us what is not. I usually only say this to fellow Christians but I will say it to you: Look at yourself and don't worry about what others are doing- what others do is not your business nor your concern. We all have our lives to live.

 

[waitasec]

I don't think anyone would benefit from anything I have. I doubt if I sold everything that is mine in our mobile home, I would get $100 for it. Then I would have to live under a bridge with two special needs sons. Even we who read the Bible can tell what is relevant to us what is not. I usually only say this to fellow Christians but I will say it to you: Look at yourself and don't worry about what others are doing- what others do is not your business nor your concern. We all have our lives to live.

according to what jesus said in the passage i quoted god will take care of you and your loved ones...

trust in god...


seriously though, i sincerely think that what jesus was expecting was that the kingdom of heaven was going to come within his life time as he was conspiring against the romans.

 

[Sleeppy]

according to what jesus said in the passage i quoted god will take care of you and your loved ones...

trust in god...


seriously though, i sincerely think that what jesus was expecting was that the kingdom of heaven was going to come within his life time as he was conspiring against the romans.

He is taking care of them. The command is against excess, not necessity.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't think anyone would benefit from anything I have. I doubt if I sold everything that is mine in our mobile home, I would get $100 for it. Then I would have to live under a bridge with two special needs sons. Even we who read the Bible can tell what is relevant to us what is not. I usually only say this to fellow Christians but I will say it to you: Look at yourself and don't worry about what others are doing- what others do is not your business nor your concern. We all have our lives to live.

You have more value as a human being then anybodies material possessions could possibly add up to. That is something I sincerely believe.

 

[waitasec]

He is taking care of them. The command is against excess, not necessity.

oh really...?
he's taking care of them? are you sure? think again.
:no:

 

[Thief]

according to what jesus said in the passage i quoted god will take care of you and your loved ones...

trust in god...


seriously though, i sincerely think that what jesus was expecting was that the kingdom of heaven was going to come within his life time as he was conspiring against the romans.

This is a gross misconception...

The kingdom of heaven is within you.
Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom.

Jesus did not conspire against the Romans.
He was framed and executed.

As for the money...give to Caesar what is Caesar's....
give to God what is God's'.