Jesus did not die on the Cross

[katiemygirl]

No, not in the least bit. God is the Greatest, so that is not a good comparison. However, saying God died due to humans for a moment is absurd.

Jesus, the man died for humans. God did not die. Jesus chose to leave His home in heaven to become a man so that He could die on the cross in order to forgive the sins of mankind. Only a perfect, sinless being could accomplish such a thing.

Please take the time to read the following passage. Maybe it will help you to understand.

Philippians 2
5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. 7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, 8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Jabar]

From my vantage point, I do not see any substantial difference. It is just a competion between who makes the most absurd claims.

Question: is there gravity and an athmosphere in heaven? I ask because if there is not any of them, I do not see the need to equip camels with wings.

Ciao

- viole

Firstly, that was in the Hadith. Secondly,

Jesus died in the physical sense, just as He was raised in the physical sense, with a human body that could be seen and touched. However, Jesus never ceased to exist. He remained alive in the spiritual sense.

Jesus claimed He was God. You don't want to acknowledge the verses which say so. You seem to pick and choose only the verses that suit your own purpose but ignore the ones you don't like.

Jesus shouted to the crowds, "If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark."

Jesus told the people that if they saw Him, they saw God. He said that He and the Father were one.

"No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"

The people knew back then that Jesus claimed to be God.

Once again the people picked up stones to kill him. Jesus said, "At my Father's direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?"
They replied, "We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God."

Are you answering what i am telling you? If this is the case, then they are clear contradictions. The Bible is tampered with. And tell me the verses that say this. Jesus never claimed he is God, and even if he did it is filled with contradictions meaning the Bible has been tampered with.

 

[Jabar]

Jesus, the man died for humans. God did not die. Jesus chose to leave His home in heaven to become a man so that He could die on the cross in order to forgive the sins of mankind. Only a perfect, sinless being could accomplish such a thing.

Please take the time to read the following passage. Maybe it will help you to understand.

Philippians 2
5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. 7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, 8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So, basically God killed a human? And he himself was alive? This does not reflect on a God's actions. He did not forgive all the sins of mankind. If he did then does that justify murder, rape, and other evil acts? All this makes no sense. It is all fabricated. Why does Jesus not just say he was God but in human form?

 

[paarsurrey]

According to Quran, Jesus was a holy man. From my understanding, one of the meanings of holy is PURE. In other words, Jesus was faultless, without sin.
The same cannot be said about Muhammed or any other prophet in the Quran.
I'd say that makes Jesus very special.
I'm wondering if you have ever read the Bible, or possibly even just the gospel of John from beginning to end. Please be honest.

Not any which is not shared by other prophets.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

According to Quran, Jesus was a holy man. From my understanding, one of the meanings of holy is PURE. In other words, Jesus was faultless, without sin.
The same cannot be said about Muhammed or any other prophet in the Quran.
I'd say that makes Jesus very special.
I'm wondering if you have ever read the Bible, or possibly even just the gospel of John from beginning to end. Please be honest.

I have read OT and NT Bibles, for the former the Catholic version and for the later both Catholic and Protestant versions from cover to cover.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

According to Quran, Jesus was a holy man. From my understanding, one of the meanings of holy is PURE. In other words, Jesus was faultless, without sin.
The same cannot be said about Muhammed or any other prophet in the Quran.
I'd say that makes Jesus very special.
I'm wondering if you have ever read the Bible, or possibly even just the gospel of John from beginning to end. Please be honest.

There is no valid and special characteristic in Jesus which has not been shared by some other prophets.
Regards

 

[firedragon]

You and I can only speculate, but here's what I think.

John's gospel is unique. It was written at a much later time than Matthew, Mark and Luke, probably after the destruction of Jerusalem. John's gospel has a different purpose and theme than the other gospel writers have.

Matthew, Mark and Luke were concerned with showing that Jesus the Messiah was connected with Jews, Gentiles, outcasts, and other groups of people. In other words, they were concerned with demographics.

John wrote in a time (much later than the other gospel writers) where heresies were becoming rampant, including Gnosticism and other ideologies that denied either Jesus' divine nature or human standing. Many people of John's day were asking themselves who exactly was Jesus? What was He like? John's gospel answers these questions. The Book of John is all about Jesus explaining His own nature and purpose in the world.

One of John's major purposes and themes was to portray Jesus as the divine Word, the pre-existent Son who is One with God (John 10:30). John says Jesus became flesh in order to live amonst us (1:14).

In other words, John took a lot of pains to make it crystal clear that Jesus was indeed God in human form.

• Jesus being the pre-existent son, who is one with God, is important to John but not important to Matthew, Mark and Luke. 3 of the Gospel writers found it more important to write about demographics etc but they found the divinity of the Christ not so important. Thats one fantastic story. Thus Mark was writing the first Gospel knowing that another man called John will emerge 40 years later (At least) and write about Jesus being one with God? Everlasting, pre-existing Jesus. God. In that case he would have said it in his book.
  
• With a lot of conviction you said that the questions people had changed over time. How do you know that? Thats an assumption do you agree? The theology of all four gospels evolved over time. Thus, which one is correct? All four? In that case, why do you need the synoptic gospels? All you need is the gospel of John. Having the synoptic gospels is a hindrance.
  
• Painstakingly Matthew and Luke give us two significantly different genealogies. The writers got the two grand dads wrong. Jacob or Heli. It says father of Joseph, not Mary. They could not have used the same source, neither did they know each-other. Were both of them waiting for John to come one day and reveal the real truth?
  
• You say that John is all about Jesus explaining his position. Well you quoted John 10:30, I and my father are one. In that case later when Jesus says him and his disciples are one, does that make them also God or one with God. They are all one? Same hen.
  
• Luke says that he inherited the knowledge and he also decided to write an account. Thus, he was never an eye witness. Right?
  
• The first man to write a Gospel, Mark was an outsider who never knew Jesus. In bible studies it is elementary for anyone to learn that Mark was a primary source for the other two synoptic gospels. So Matthew and Luke copied from Mark. Thus Matthew, the tax collector, copies from Mark who never knew Jesus. What is that all about?
• John, the disciple whom Jesus loved (according himself), was at least 90 years old, if he wrote it. If he was 17 when Jesus was crucified. At least. He must have waited 70 years for all four Gospel writers to write their Gospels, and then come in and give the true character of Jesus. Two of them he never knew to have known Jesus.
• John took a lot of pain to reveal the true nature of Jesus, the others didnt bother.

Christians believe Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gospels.

Everyone knows what Christians believe. But there is no basis for it. None. I have not met a single scholar of the New Testament who with conviction has a theory. All of them agree that the books are anonymous.

Some say apostle Paul. Others say the author is unknown, but Christians believe Hebrews to be the Word of God, regardless of who wrote it.

Some say apostle Paul. Others say the author is unknown, but Christians believe Hebrews to be the Word of God, regardless of who wrote it.

Some say Paul, others say author is unknown, but Christian believe it to be the word of God. What? How could just believe some book to be the word of God if you dont even have a clue who wrote it?

The Jews and the Romans used different standards for time. A new day for the Romans began at midnight, whereas a new day for the Jews began in the evening at what we would call 6 p.m.

John was using the Roman system. He was writing outside of Palestine to a Hellenistic audience. Mark used a Jewish system. His gospel follows sermons delivered by the apostle Peter.

We also have to take into account the context, as well as cultural differences between the Jewish and Gentile worlds.

John has Pilate handing Jesus over for crucifixion at 6 a.m., and Mark has Jesus on the cross three hours later at 9 a.m. (the third hour).

There is no inconsistency in the gospel accounts.

Why would a Jew count the hours according to the Roman breakdown of the day? If you say he was roman, then I would agree. You said Pilate handed Jesus over for crucifixion at 6 AM. But the bible says it was around noon (John 19). Either the bible is lying or you are. Even if its 6 AM as you say, its still different from Marks account. Besides, was it Passover or the day of preparation? There is no way to reconcile this.

How could you trust any of this?

 

[firedragon]

Jesus, the man died for humans. God did not die. Jesus chose to leave His home in heaven to become a man so that He could die on the cross in order to forgive the sins of mankind. Only a perfect, sinless being could accomplish such a thing.

Please take the time to read the following passage. Maybe it will help you to understand.

Philippians 2
5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. 7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, 8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If you believe in a book written by a man who never met Jesus, but claims to have divine revelation, why dont you believe in Muhammed. He also claimed divine revelation, never met Jesus.

 

[katiemygirl]

I have read OT and NT Bibles, for the former the Catholic version and for the later both Catholic and Protestant versions from cover to cover.
Regards

Good.
Please tell me then. What does gospel mean, and what was the gospel of the kingdom?

 

[katiemygirl]

There is no valid and special characteristic in Jesus which has not been shared by some other prophets.
Regards

Jesus was holy, which means He was sinless, pure and faultless. The Quran says this about no other prophet, other than Jesus.

No prophet in the Bible was sinless, except Jesus.

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus was holy, which means He was sinless, pure and faultless. The Quran says this about no other prophet, other than Jesus.
No prophet in the Bible was sinless, except Jesus.

There is no such word as holy in Arabic, please.
I gave you the translation as "righteous". And all prophets are righteous.
As per NT Gospel, Jesus denied that he was a good person even, this he said in so many word.


Regards
Mark 10:18

 

[paarsurrey]

Good.
Please tell me then. What does gospel mean, and what was the gospel of the kingdom?

Please tell me. What is adulterous in your own understanding not from a dictionary?
Regards

 

[katiemygirl]

If you believe in a book written by a man who never met Jesus, but claims to have divine revelation, why dont you believe in Muhammed. He also claimed divine revelation, never met Jesus.

Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Read Acts 9.

We do not accept that Muhammed had a divine revelation because Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote the the Scriptures were all a man needed to be complete.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Bible is all that is needed.

 

[katiemygirl]

Please tell me. What is adulterous in your own understanding not from a dictionary?
Regards

I will answer after you answer my questions. What does gospel mean, and what is the gospel of the kingdom. If you have read the Bible, as you claim, then these are easy questions.

 

[katiemygirl]

There is no such word as holy in Arabic, please.
I gave you the translation as "righteous". And all prophets are righteous.
As per NT Gospel, Jesus denied that he was a good person even, this he said in so many word.


Regards
Mark 10:18

Does the Quran lie?

When the angel appeared to Mary to announce the birth of Jesus, he said in Sura 19:19 (Mariam) - "'I am the messenger of your Lord,' he replied, 'and have come to give you a holy son.'"

If the word "holy" is not found in the Quran, then does this mean Allah is not holy?

The God of Christians is holy.

Leviticus 19:2 says the Lord God is holy.

“Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them, You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.

 

[katiemygirl]

There is no valid and special characteristic in Jesus which has not been shared by some other prophets.
Regards

Yes Jesus has a special characteristic. Jesus was holy according to Quran and the Bible, which means He was SINLESS, PURE, FAULTLESS, AND YES RIGHTEOUS.

One who is righteous has NO sin.

What other prophet can you say this about from either the Quran or Bible?

 

[katiemygirl]

I have noticed that the Muslims on this thread will not or cannot answer simple questions.

 

[firedragon]

I have noticed that the Muslims on this thread will not or cannot answer simple questions.

Hmm. Why do you look at the thimble in my eye while there is a plank in yours.

 

[firedragon]

Yes Jesus has a special characteristic. Jesus was holy according to Quran and the Bible, which means He was SINLESS, PURE, FAULTLESS, AND YES RIGHTEOUS.

One who is righteous has NO sin.

What other prophet can you say this about from either the Quran or Bible?

Does the Quran say Jesus is Holy? And only Jesus is Holy?

 

[firedragon]

Does the Quran lie?

When the angel appeared to Mary to announce the birth of Jesus, he said in Sura 19:19 (Mariam) - "'I am the messenger of your Lord,' he replied, 'and have come to give you a holy son.'"

If the word "holy" is not found in the Quran, then does this mean Allah is not holy?

The God of Christians is holy.

Leviticus 19:2 says the Lord God is holy.

“Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them, You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.

This is Zakaa. Not holy, its pure/virtuous. There are many references to pure soul, and pure you will be when God purifies you. Dont misread and make a mountain out of a mole.

Of course Jesus was virtuous. Of course he was pure. He is afterall, the messiah. Masih. Christ. The prophet of God.