Jesus did not die on the Cross

[paarsurrey]

According to Quran, Jesus was a holy man. From my understanding, one of the meanings of holy is PURE. In other words, Jesus was faultless, without sin.
The same cannot be said about Muhammed or any other prophet in the Quran.
I'd say that makes Jesus very special.
I'm wondering if you have ever read the Bible, or possibly even just the gospel of John from beginning to end. Please be honest.

Please quote the specific verse of Quran in your mind for the word "holy"about Jesus.
Regards

 

[katiemygirl]

Please quote the specific verse of Quran in your mind for the word "holy"about Jesus.
Regards

Sura 19:19

Why did you not answer my question?

 

[katiemygirl]

Peace be on you.
After Jesus (on whom be peace), while James looked after the Jerusalem Church, Paul was preaching in the West, particularly to the gentiles. The Western Church evolved along Pauline doctrinal lines, whereas the Church in Jerusalem developed along monotheistic teachings.

One offshoot of of James' school were Ebionites (the poors), they followed Moses' law with great zeal. They honoured James the Righteous, and believed Jesus to be their mortal Messiah, while Paul had become an Apostate for the Law. They observed the Law and the Sabbath with great zeal.

They held James in the highest regard, while Paul was considered ‘The Enemy’,

[chapter 7, The Evolution of Christianity, @ https://alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_7.html#pgfId-1006203 ]

Jesus did not come to abolish the law of Prophets, but to fulfill them. [Mathew 5:17]

The first objective of laws of Prophets has been to be believe Oneness of God.
Second thing is human rights.

Jesus could not have broken both aspects.
Thus he was not God, nor did he disappeared without completing his work.

History is NOT the inspired Word of God. The Bible is.

Christians, including the apostles John and Paul believed and wrote that Jesus was God.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Jabar]

Have you read the Bible? Can you honestly answer yes to that question?

Or have you only read the websites of those who claim to be christians, such as Jehovah's Witnesses? Do you understand the the majority of Christians view this group, and others like it, as a CULT? They do not represent Christianity.

The writers of the New Testament considered Jesus to be God. The majority of Christians believe this. There are no contradictions.

• John 1:1, 14. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . 14, And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

• John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was 9calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

• John 20:28, “Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’"

• Col. 2:9, “For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form.”

• Phil. 2:5-8, “Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”

• Heb. 1:8, “But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.”

(i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]

"My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]

"…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

"…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]

… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
[The Bible, John 14:24]




"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
[The Bible, John 17:3]
"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]




The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
[The Bible, Acts 2:22]

http://www.islam101.com/religions/christianity/conceptGod.htm

 

[katiemygirl]

(i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]

"My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]

"…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

"…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]

… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
[The Bible, John 14:24]




"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
[The Bible, John 17:3]
"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]




The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
[The Bible, Acts 2:22]

http://www.islam101.com/religions/christianity/conceptGod.htm

I agree. Jesus was a prophet. He was also God in the flesh. Both apostles John and Paul believed and wrote it to be truth.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Will you please answer my questions?
Have you read the Bible? Can you honestly answer yes to that question?

 

[Jabar]

I agree. Jesus was a prophet. He was also God in the flesh. Both apostles John and Paul believed and wrote it to be truth.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Will you please answer my questions?
Have you read the Bible? Can you honestly answer yes to that question?

You are being ignorant, it says my father is greater than I, Jesus was approved by God. I am sorry but your knowledge in the Bible is very weak. If Jesus is God, then how could he die on the cross? If he is God, he would not of died. Come on. Even if the Bible which has been tampered with says this then there is a clear contradiction. Therefore, Bible has been changed by men and tampered with.

 

[paarsurrey]

Sura 19:19
Why did you not answer my question?

Did you mean the following:
قَالَ إِنَّمَا أَنَا رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لِأَهَبَ لَكِ غُلَامًا زَكِيًّا
[19:20] He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous* son.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=19&verse=11
*also translated as "pure".
Regards

 

[katiemygirl]

You are being ignorant, it says my father is greater than I, Jesus was approved by God. I am sorry but your knowledge in the Bible is very weak. If Jesus is God, then how could he die on the cross? If he is God, he would not of died. Come on.

Why are you avoiding my question? I have asked you 3 times.

I ask again.

Have you read the Bible? Can you honestly answer yes to that question?

When Jesus lived on earth, he was a man. He was in subjection to His Father. That was His role as Son. I know you cannot understand this concept. I will try in another post to help you see.

 

[katiemygirl]

Did you mean the following:
قَالَ إِنَّمَا أَنَا رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لِأَهَبَ لَكِ غُلَامًا زَكِيًّا
[19:20] He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous* son.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=19&verse=11
*also translated as "pure".
Regards

Yes. But another version says "holy son."

Do Muslims believe Jesus is pure, sinless, faultless? Thank you paarsurrey.

 

[Jabar]

Why are you avoiding my question? I have asked you 3 times.

I ask again.

Have you read the Bible? Can you honestly answer yes to that question?

When Jesus lived on earth, he was a man. He was in subjection to His Father. That was His role as Son. I know you cannot understand this concept. I will try in another post to help you see. Give me a few minutes.

Yes, i have read the Bible.
Jesus never claimed divinity. There is not a single unequivocal statement in the complete Bible where Jesus himself said that ''I am God'' or ''Worship me''. In fact if you read the Bible:
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]

Anyone who says i seek not my own will but the will of my father is a Muslim, Jesus peace be upon him was a Muslim. He never claimed divinity.

 

[viole]

You are being ignorant, it says my father is greater than I, Jesus was approved by God. I am sorry but your knowledge in the Bible is very weak. If Jesus is God, then how could he die on the cross? If he is God, he would not of died. Come on. Even if the Bible which has been tampered with says this then there is a clear contradiction. Therefore, Bible has been changed by men and tampered with.

Well, He did not really die. He was just momentarily absent for our sins.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jabar]

Well, He did not really die. He was just momentarily absent for our sins.

Ciao

- viole

Okay, either way. If he is God, How could that even happen? God is All-Mighty, he cannot die, not even a moment. You say for our sins? Then does that mean that i can do whatever i want and still go to heaven like murder and evil acts?

 

[viole]

Okay, either way. If he is God, How could that even happen? God is All-Mighty, he cannot die, not even a moment. You say for our sins? Then does that mean that i can do whatever i want and still go to heaven like murder and evil acts?

If He is Almighty, He can easily die if He wants. By definition. If He could not, He would not be Almighty, but only Somewhatmighty.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jabar]

If He is Almighty, He can easily die. By definition. If He could not, He would not be Almighty, but only Somewhatmighty.

Ciao

- viole

God cannot die, not even for a moment. Then, Jesus was not Almighty. How is he somewhatmighty? Jesus was a great prophet but to associate him with God is absurd. He never claimed divinity. The people who read the Bible are brainwashed. Even IF he did claim divinity, this would place contradictions in the Bible. So, if the Bible is the word of God, then that would not make the Bible divine and that the whole story was a lie.

 

[katiemygirl]

You are being ignorant, it says my father is greater than I, Jesus was approved by God. I am sorry but your knowledge in the Bible is very weak. If Jesus is God, then how could he die on the cross? If he is God, he would not of died. Come on. Even if the Bible which has been tampered with says this then there is a clear contradiction. Therefore, Bible has been changed by men and tampered with.

Please be respectful.

Jesus said that the Father was greater than He because He was a man. As a man, he was in a lower position than His Father, God.

Christians believe Jesus has two natures. He is divine and He is human.

Jesus did not deny being God by saying the Father was greater than He.. He was simply acknowleding that He was a man, and subject to God.

I know this is hard for you to understand, but Jesus was both God and man. As a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father.

It is the same in a marriage relationship. In the Bible, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. He is her head (Eph. 5:23), but, he is no different in nature, and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, both being human.

So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was a man, and subject to God.

Do you understand? I don't expect you to agree, but I'm trying to help you see how christians view this.

 

[viole]

God cannot die, not even for a moment. Then, Jesus was not Almighty. How is he somewhatmighty? Jesus was a great prophet but to associate him with God is absurd. He never claimed divinity. The people who read the Bible are brainwashed. Even IF he did claim divinity, this would place contradictions in the Bible. So, if the Bible is the word of God, then that would not make the Bible divine and that the whole story was a lie.

Well, i think a God that dies and comes back to life is as plausible as a prophet getting a hitchhike to heaven on a winged camel.

Don't you think so?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jabar]

Please be respectful.

Jesus said that the Father was greater than He because He was a man. As a man, he was in a lower position than His Father, God.

Christians believe Jesus has two natures. He is divine and He is human.

Jesus did not deny being God by saying the Father was greater than He.. He was simply acknowleding that He was a man, and subject to God.

I know this is hard for you to understand, but Jesus was both God and man. As a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father.

It is the same in a marriage relationship. In the Bible, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. He is her head (Eph. 5:23), but, he is no different in nature, and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, both being human.

So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was a man, and subject to God.

Do you understand? I don't expect you to agree, but I'm trying to help you see how christians view this.

This makes no sense, the Trinity is false. The verses clearly state he was not God. The Christians view it as if he is. Then if he was both God and man, then he is not God. Besides there is no unequivocal statement in the complete Bible where Jesus says he is God or says Worship me. Look the Bible says you cannot eat pork, do people follow and believe it? NO! The same way they deny that Jesus was not God.

 

[Jabar]

Well, i think a God that dies and comes back to life is as plausible as a prophet getting a hitchhike to heaven on a winged camel.

Don't you think so?

Ciao

- viole

No, not in the least bit. God is the Greatest, so that is not a good comparison. However, saying God died due to humans for a moment is absurd.

 

[viole]

No, not in the least bit. God is the Greatest, so that is not a good comparison. However, saying God died due to humans is absurd.

From my vantage point, I do not see any substantial difference. It is just a competion between who makes the most absurd claims.

Question: is there gravity and an athmosphere in heaven? I ask because if there is not any of them, I do not see the need to equip camels with wings.

Ciao

- viole

 

[katiemygirl]

God cannot die, not even for a moment. Then, Jesus was not Almighty. How is he somewhatmighty? Jesus was a great prophet but to associate him with God is absurd. He never claimed divinity. The people who read the Bible are brainwashed. Even IF he did claim divinity, this would place contradictions in the Bible. So, if the Bible is the word of God, then that would not make the Bible divine and that the whole story was a lie.

Jesus died in the physical sense, just as He was raised in the physical sense, with a human body that could be seen and touched. However, Jesus never ceased to exist. He remained alive in the spiritual sense.

Jesus claimed He was God. You don't want to acknowledge the verses which say so. You seem to pick and choose only the verses that suit your own purpose but ignore the ones you don't like.

Jesus shouted to the crowds, "If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark."

Jesus told the people that if they saw Him, they saw God. He said that He and the Father were one.

"No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"

The people knew back then that Jesus claimed to be God.

Once again the people picked up stones to kill him. Jesus said, "At my Father's direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?"
They replied, "We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God."