Jesus did not die on the Cross

[Pastek]

Cool! But wouldn't 11 stars be further from the truth? I would definitely say so.

The words in arabic may have different meanings, but here even if the word is tranlated by "planets" it doesn't change anything as the stars/planets only represent the brothers.
It's not a verse about the universe.

 

[katiemygirl]

There is no lie attributed to Jesus in the verse of Quran. Jesus did not die on the Cross, he died a natural death in Kashmir, and like ever virtuous person was raised to heaven, nothing special about Jesus.
Regards

According to Quran, Jesus was a holy man. From my understanding, one of the meanings of holy is PURE. In other words, Jesus was faultless, without sin.

The same cannot be said about Muhammed or any other prophet in the Quran.

I'd say that makes Jesus very special.

I'm wondering if you have ever read the Bible, or possibly even just the gospel of John from beginning to end. Please be honest.

 

[katiemygirl]

Yes, however the true belief is that Jesus is not God in human form. Their own teachings do not have that claim. Just Christians today do not know how to read the Bible correctly.

Jabar, with all due respect, you speak from ignorance. Christians, from the very beginning, have believed that Jesus is God. It is true that there have been splinter groups over the years who reject this, but they are in the minority.

To accuse Christians of not knowing HOW to read the Bible is very foolish. Of course they know how. There are translations of the Bible in every language, and if a person can read, he/she knows how to read the Bible. There is no secret in knowing HOW to read the Bible. Anyone who chooses to can read it.

 

[jeager106]

Not a cross but a stake.
That's HISTORY:
Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Greek word generally translated “cross” is stau·ros′. It basically means “an upright pale or stake.” The Companion Bible points out: “[Stau·ros′] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle . . . There is nothing in the Greek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber.”
In several texts, Bible writers use another word for the instrument of Jesus’ death. It is the Greek word xy′lon. (Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24) This word simply means “timber” or “a stick, club, or tree.”
Explaining why a simple stake was often used for executions, the book Das Kreuz und die Kreuzigung (The Cross and the Crucifixion), by Hermann Fulda, states: “Trees were not everywhere available at the places chosen for public execution. So a simple beam was sunk into the ground. On this the outlaws, with hands raised upward and often also with their feet, were bound or nailed.”

From:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100712100009AA2SklA

But please don't take my word for it. Do a bit of google research and find this truth
for yourself.

However, since the late 19th century, some scholars have maintained that it was in reality a simple stake without transom,
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_of_Jesus'_crucifixion

Sooooo, people that make the cross sign, or wear a religious cross, or kneel
before a cross are worshiping WRONG.
Tradition flies in the face of the TRUTH.

The cross is a PAGAN SYMBOL adopted by the early Church to assist PAGANS
into worshiping false christian dogma thus polluting the meaning and message
of God via Jesus.
I don't knell before a cross.
I attended a Catholic (read pagan) funeral and did not go to the cross and kneel
before a priest for prayer.
To me it's a PAGAN ceremony promulgated by the Catholic church to gain
converts from what they called "heathen pagans".
There are TONS of pagan rituals adopted the the Catholic church. Info is available
to anyone that seeks the TRUTH.

 

[Jabar]

Jabar, with all due respect, you speak from ignorance. Christians, from the very beginning, have believed that Jesus is God. It is true that there have been splinter groups over the years who reject this, but they are in the minority.

To accuse Christians of not knowing HOW to read the Bible is very foolish. Of course they know how. There are translations of the Bible in every language, and if a person can read, he/she knows how to read the Bible. There is no secret in knowing HOW to read the Bible. Anyone who chooses to can read it.

If they believed Jesus is God, why do their beliefs contradict the Bible?

 

[katiemygirl]

Not a cross but a stake.
That's HISTORY:
Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Greek word generally translated “cross” is stau·ros′. It basically means “an upright pale or stake.” The Companion Bible points out: “[Stau·ros′] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle . . . There is nothing in the Greek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber.”
In several texts, Bible writers use another word for the instrument of Jesus’ death. It is the Greek word xy′lon. (Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24) This word simply means “timber” or “a stick, club, or tree.”
Explaining why a simple stake was often used for executions, the book Das Kreuz und die Kreuzigung (The Cross and the Crucifixion), by Hermann Fulda, states: “Trees were not everywhere available at the places chosen for public execution. So a simple beam was sunk into the ground. On this the outlaws, with hands raised upward and often also with their feet, were bound or nailed.”

From:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100712100009AA2SklA

But please don't take my word for it. Do a bit of google research and find this truth
for yourself.

That is the opinion of Jehovah's Witnesses who have been sorely misled by a governing body who claim inspiration from God, who claim to be God's "exclusive" channel.

The important point to acknowledge here is that Jesus, indeed, was crucified and resurrected.

 

[firedragon]

That is the opinion of Jehovah's Witnesses who have been sorely misled by a governing body who claim inspiration from God, who claim to be God's "exclusive" channel.

The important point to acknowledge here is that Jesus, indeed, was crucified and resurrected.

• Why does John have more exalted claims for Jesus while Mark doesn't?
• Who wrote the Gospels, Mark, Ma?
• Who wrote Hebrews?
• Why does one Gospel say Jesus was crucified at 9AM while another says after noon?

 

[katiemygirl]

If they believed Jesus is God, why do their beliefs contradict the Bible?

Have you read the Bible? Can you honestly answer yes to that question?

Or have you only read the websites of those who claim to be christians, such as Jehovah's Witnesses? Do you understand the the majority of Christians view this group, and others like it, as a CULT? They do not represent Christianity.

The writers of the New Testament considered Jesus to be God. The majority of Christians believe this. There are no contradictions.

• John 1:1, 14. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . 14, And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

• John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was 9calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

• John 20:28, “Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’"

• Col. 2:9, “For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form.”

• Phil. 2:5-8, “Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”

• Heb. 1:8, “But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.”

 

[Pastek]

How is it possible to pass from this to this :

Do not be terrified by them, for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a great and awesome God.[[Deuteronomy]

Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him [Matthew)


I the Lord do not change. [Malachi]


Do really some people think it's possible to hit God ?

 

[DawudTalut]

....... Christians, from the very beginning, have believed that Jesus is God. It is true that there have been splinter groups over the years who reject this, but they are in the minority.......

Peace be on you.
After Jesus (on whom be peace), while James looked after the Jerusalem Church, Paul was preaching in the West, particularly to the gentiles. The Western Church evolved along Pauline doctrinal lines, whereas the Church in Jerusalem developed along monotheistic teachings.

One offshoot of of James' school were Ebionites (the poors), they followed Moses' law with great zeal. They honoured James the Righteous, and believed Jesus to be their mortal Messiah, while Paul had become an Apostate for the Law. They observed the Law and the Sabbath with great zeal.

They held James in the highest regard, while Paul was considered ‘The Enemy’,

[chapter 7, The Evolution of Christianity, @ https://alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_7.html#pgfId-1006203 ]

Jesus did not come to abolish the law of Prophets, but to fulfill them. [Mathew 5:17]

The first objective of laws of Prophets has been to be believe Oneness of God.
Second thing is human rights.

Jesus could not have broken both aspects.
Thus he was not God, nor did he disappeared without completing his work.

 

[jeager106]

Not just J.W.s but other Christian denominations as well.

"This Bible Study aid, Is God a Trinity? , goes into great detail explaining the non-biblical origins of the trinity and how this false gospel replaced the true teachings of Jesus Christ."
"If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark."


Research for yourself if you like.

 

[jeager106]

"If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark."
"No one can come to the Father except through me."
Quote from Jesus as found in the Christian Bible.

People will believe what they are familiar with even if it's wrong.
People tend to stubbornly hang onto beliefs in the face of facts.
So it is with the human condition.

There are many Biblical passage that show Jesus was NOT God in the flesh.

 

[katiemygirl]

="firedragon, post: 4735849, member: 45358"]

• Why does John have more exalted claims for Jesus while Mark doesn't?

You and I can only speculate, but here's what I think.

John's gospel is unique. It was written at a much later time than Matthew, Mark and Luke, probably after the destruction of Jerusalem. John's gospel has a different purpose and theme than the other gospel writers have.

Matthew, Mark and Luke were concerned with showing that Jesus the Messiah was connected with Jews, Gentiles, outcasts, and other groups of people. In other words, they were concerned with demographics.

John wrote in a time (much later than the other gospel writers) where heresies were becoming rampant, including Gnosticism and other ideologies that denied either Jesus' divine nature or human standing. Many people of John's day were asking themselves who exactly was Jesus? What was He like? John's gospel answers these questions. The Book of John is all about Jesus explaining His own nature and purpose in the world.

One of John's major purposes and themes was to portray Jesus as the divine Word, the pre-existent Son who is One with God (John 10:30). John says Jesus became flesh in order to live amonst us (1:14).

In other words, John took a lot of pains to make it crystal clear that Jesus was indeed God in human form.

• Who wrote the Gospels, Mark, Ma?

Christians believe Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gospels.

• Who wrote Hebrews?

Some say apostle Paul. Others say the author is unknown, but Christians believe Hebrews to be the Word of God, regardless of who wrote it.

• Why does one Gospel say Jesus was crucified at 9AM while another says after noon?

The Jews and the Romans used different standards for time. A new day for the Romans began at midnight, whereas a new day for the Jews began in the evening at what we would call 6 p.m.

John was using the Roman system. He was writing outside of Palestine to a Hellenistic audience. Mark used a Jewish system. His gospel follows sermons delivered by the apostle Peter.

We also have to take into account the context, as well as cultural differences between the Jewish and Gentile worlds.

John has Pilate handing Jesus over for crucifixion at 6 a.m., and Mark has Jesus on the cross three hours later at 9 a.m. (the third hour).

There is no inconsistency in the gospel accounts.

 

[jeager106]

Are J.W.s a cult?
A definition of a cult:

• : a small group of very devoted supporters or fans

With respect, that definition does fit J.W.'s
That said I find that using the term "cult" to describe J.W.'s a bit insulting.

Another definition of "cult".

• : a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

Some would say J.W.'s are extreme in the face of popular Christian dogma.
Note that "dangerous" does NOT FIT the J.W.'s.
If everyone were J.W.'s there would be peace and harmony in the world and
likely little or not crime.
Not saying J.W.'s don't have bad apples. They certainly DO!
However once a bad apple is uncovered that person is dealt with quickly.

I was "associated" with J.W.'s when I was a police officer and ARRESTED
a J.W. for having sex with his granddaughter, age TWELVE!
I was happy to do it and the Elders were happy to give him the boot!

Many decades ago a J.W. male had nasty interest in my 13 year old sister
who at age 10 developed breasts and at 13 was, ah, er, well blessed.
He got the boot after my father whipped his ***!!!!

Dad didn't believe in calling the cops as HIS JUSTICE was much, much, more, ah,
PROFOUND!

 

[katiemygirl]

Not just J.W.s but other Christian denominations as well.

"This Bible Study aid, Is God a Trinity? , goes into great detail explaining the non-biblical origins of the trinity and how this false gospel replaced the true teachings of Jesus Christ."
"If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark."


Research for yourself if you like.

Why do you need Bible study aids? Do you not trust that the Holy Spirit will teach and guide you to the truth? Try thinking for yourself.

And you are all, by far, in the minority, and considered to be cults. You are brainwashed by your governing body. You cannot think for yourself. If you disagree with you GB, you get disfellowshipped.

I'm not here to debate JW's. There are plenty of threads for that.

 

[katiemygirl]

Are J.W.s a cult?
A definition of a cult:

• : a small group of very devoted supporters or fans

With respect, that definition does fit J.W.'s
That said I find that using the term "cult" to describe J.W.'s a bit insulting.

Another definition of "cult".

• : a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

Some would say J.W.'s are extreme in the face of popular Christian dogma.
Note that "dangerous" does NOT FIT the J.W.'s.
If everyone were J.W.'s there would be peace and harmony in the world and
likely little or not crime.
Not saying J.W.'s don't have bad apples. They certainly DO!
However once a bad apple is uncovered that person is dealt with quickly.

I was "associated" with J.W.'s when I was a police officer and ARRESTED
a J.W. for having sex with his granddaughter, age TWELVE!
I was happy to do it and the Elders were happy to give him the boot!

Many decades ago a J.W. male had nasty interest in my 13 year old sister
who at age 10 developed breasts and at 13 was, ah, er, well blessed.
He got the boot after by father whipped his ***!!!!

I have no interest in debating your religion on this thread. I'm here to defend the gospel of Jesus Christ, that is, the death, burial and resurrection of my Savior.

Get back to the topic.

 

[jeager106]

I know of few Christian church organizations that DON'T have Bible
study aids.
A study Bible is an edition of the Bible prepared for use by a serious student of the Bible. It provides scholarly information designed to help the reader gain a better understanding of and context for the text.
From wiki^.
Look that up and see for yourself.
I'm not going to copy/paste all the links.

 

[jeager106]

I have no interest in debating your religion on this thread. I'm here to defend the gospel of Jesus Christ, that is, the death, burial and resurrection of my Savior.

Get back to the topic.

I'm not trying to debate J.W.s dogma my dear lady.

I'm not a baptized J.W. though interested in reading up on many Christian
denominations.

Did Jesus die on a cross? History shows that Romans used a cross and a torture
stake depending upon resources. ( I guess )
What he died upon is of little importance to me.
The cross symbol has profound meaning to Christendom.

 

[katiemygirl]

How is it possible to pass from this to this :

Do not be terrified by them, for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a great and awesome God.[[Deuteronomy]

Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him [Matthew)


I the Lord do not change. [Malachi]


Do really some people think it's possible to hit God ?

Simple. Jesus was the son of man. While living on earth, Jesus was a physical human being.

 

[katiemygirl]

I'm not trying to debate J.W.s dogma my dear lady.

I'm not a baptized J.W. though interested in reading up on many Christian
denominations.

Did Jesus die on a cross? History shows that Romans used a cross and a torture
stake depending upon resources. ( I guess )
What he died upon is of little importance to me.
The cross symbol has profound meaning to Christendom.

Does it really matter in the grand scheme? Think about it. The important point is that He was crucified. He suffered a horrible death so that the likes of you an I could be forgiven. He was raised in order that we, too, may be raised to live eternally.

I strongly suggest you not study other denominations. Instead, study the Bible, and the Bible alone. The Holy Spirit will lead you.

The mistake people make repeatedly is listening to other people's interpretations of Scriptures. Bible aids are nothing more than mens' opinions.

"Study to show thyself approved..."

Proverbs 3:5. Trust in the Lord...