Jesus in Heaven is not God

[Colt]

Er, No…. The declaration about ‘son of man in Heaven’ actually goes to show that it is a crafted trinitarian verse.

Jesus was not ever in Heaven until he was raised up there by the Father after Jesus had acquired an immortal body (note that the spirit is always immortal - Meaning that it CANNOT DIE - BUT CAN BE DESTROYED)

Also, taken literally, the claim is that Jesus was a SON OF MAN who CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN…. Meaning he was already a Human Being BEFORE being born as a human Being through the woman, Mary (the virgin)!!!

And, of course, that is totally absurd - so much so that even the most hardened trinitarian would agree it is false!!

"Son of Man" in context is a preexistent celestial being or God in heaven who came down and became a human.

 

[Betho_br]

In the Trinitarian concept, it's the Logos, the essence of Jesus, that dwells within the Father and is shared between them; it is not the carnal aspect of Jesus or the Hypostasis of Jesus. I notice that non-Catholics may have some difficulty understanding this, perhaps because throughout history, they chose to distance themselves from the Apostolic Fathers, which is not happening at this moment, as many currents are getting closer to these writers.

 

[Betho_br]

Er, No…. The declaration about ‘son of man in Heaven’ actually goes to show that it is a crafted trinitarian verse.

Jesus was not ever in Heaven until he was raised up there by the Father after Jesus had acquired an immortal body (note that the spirit is always immortal - Meaning that it CANNOT DIE - BUT CAN BE DESTROYED)

Also, taken literally, the claim is that Jesus was a SON OF MAN who CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN…. Meaning he was already a Human Being BEFORE being born as a human Being through the woman, Mary (the virgin)!!!

And, of course, that is totally absurd - so much so that even the most hardened trinitarian would agree it is false!!

In any case, it's not worthwhile to create theology based on a variant, in this sense you are not wrong.

 

[Soapy]

"Son of Man" in context is a preexistent celestial being or God in heaven who came down and became a human.

Just as I said, that even the most hardened trinitarian would agree that it is an absurdity that Jesus was a man (human Being) in Heaven before becoming a Human Being born in body of the virgin, Mary.

Your comment underlines the disingenuousness of the claim of ‘The Man who came down from Heaven’…

Isn’t it so funny how the more your claims become, the even more weird your further cos I’ms become… which testifies to the fact you know absolutely that you are wrong….

Why do you continue? Is it so hard to just say, ‘Ok, Soapy… I was wrong!’

 

[Sargonski]

Jesus preexisted as a divine spiritual being with personality. The miracle of the personality of the Son of God becoming the personality of Jesus is known only on paradise. Divine means God. Jesus was both man AND God.

All people may not be loyal to God and even deny their Heavenly Father, but he made them.

There is more than one Son of God

Interesting ... and who are these other Son's of God .. and are these other Sons more or less powerful than Jesus .. or the same ..

 

[Soapy]

In the Trinitarian concept, it's the Logos, the essence of Jesus, that dwells within the Father and is shared between them; it is not the carnal aspect of Jesus or the Hypostasis of Jesus. I notice that non-Catholics may have some difficulty understanding this, perhaps because throughout history, they chose to distance themselves from the Apostolic Fathers, which is not happening at this moment, as many currents are getting closer to these writers.

Or perhaps because there is no such thing as a Hypostatus because it is simply an an invention of Trinitarians that ATTEMPTS to explain what is clearly an absurdity and an impossibility….

In fact, are not the almost last words of the trinity declaration on the matter that the concept is “INCOMPREHENSIBLE”!!!??? Impossible to understand…!!!???

Isn’t it funny that the greatest statement made by Trinitarians is that their ideology is impossible to understand??

 

[Colt]

Interesting ... and who are these other Son's of God .. and are these other Sons more or less powerful than Jesus .. or the same ..

Under Christs jurisdiction they would be less powerful yet responsible for their own powers and administrative authority.

 

[Soapy]

Interesting ... and who are these other Son's of God .. and are these other Sons more or less powerful than Jesus .. or the same …

Under Christs jurisdiction they would be less powerful yet responsible for their own powers and administrative authority.

Colt has put no timeline of his answer since he wants to say that jesus was always more powerful than the sins of God … but check the truth:

Jesus was made ‘a little lower than the angels’… as are all humankind / mankind.

So Jesus WAS less powerful than the HEAVENLY ANGELS (Heavenly SONS OF GOD) because he was FLESH. But when Jesus was RAISED FROM the DEAD, GOD RAISED HIM UP ABOVE HIS BRETHREN AND CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND SAT HIM AT HIS (God’s) RIGHT HAND,.. which made Jesus NOW GREATER THAN THE SONS OF GOD (Heavenly Angels) and consequently ALL MANKIND!!

 

[Colt]

Just as I said, that even the most hardened trinitarian would agree that it is an absurdity that Jesus was a man (human Being) in Heaven before becoming a Human Being born in body of the virgin, Mary.

Your comment underlines the disingenuousness of the claim of ‘The Man who came down from Heaven’…

Isn’t it so funny how the more your claims become, the even more weird your further cos I’ms become… which testifies to the fact you know absolutely that you are wrong….

Why do you continue? Is it so hard to just say, ‘Ok, Soapy… I was wrong!’

You aren’t an honest person IMOP.

I never said that Jesus was FIRST a human in heaven before coming to earth! He was a divine spiritual being who became human!

You deliberately misunderstand my posts!

Jesus laid down his mortal flesh on the cross!

Jesus returned in a different form that is not human. I told you this before but again, you are not honest!

You are too dishonest to acknowledge that you understand what I’m saying.

 

[Sargonski]

Under Christs jurisdiction they would be less powerful yet responsible for their own powers and administrative authority.

Assuming these other Gods are under Christs Jurisdiction they would be less powerfull - but that is quite the assumption .. and to think of it .. even though they are under Christs Juridication does not mean they are less powerful that Jesus .... just kept in line by the authority given to him by God. .. but these are assumptions backed up with assumptions.

Who are these other Gods and why would we assume they are less powerful than Jesus ? Jesus is the "Son of Man" - Adopted by Patron God at the age of 30 at his Baptism -- after which like Pharaohs in Egypt , had to undergo a ritual test, prior to being certified as half man/ half God.

In this test Jesus runs into another Son of God named Sataniel .. a God who seems to have more power than Jesus .. able to hurl lightning bolts from the Sky .. in charge of the whole earth one of the Supreme one's main go -to Gods for planet earth when God needs something done .. like the Testing of our friend Job .. and good friend Jesus.

What else do we know .. Sataniel is the offspring of God +God .. while Jesus .. like many of our other half man/half God heros .. some others which are mentioned in Genesis .. is the offspring of God and Human.

We know that Jesus is a Priest of the Order of Melchi-Zedek . .. hence the epiphet "Prince of Peace" .. depiction as arbiter of Truth and Justice.. Judging the right hand of the Supreme one.

I am not so sure that the other Sons of God are less powerful than the Logos ...

 

[Sargonski]

Colt has put no timeline of his answer since he wants to say that jesus was always more powerful than the sins of God … but check the truth:

Jesus was made ‘a little lower than the angels’… as are all humankind / mankind.

So Jesus WAS less powerful than the HEAVENLY ANGELS (Heavenly SONS OF GOD) because he was FLESH. But when Jesus was RAISED FROM the DEAD, GOD RAISED HIM UP ABOVE HIS BRETHREN AND CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND SAT HIM AT HIS (God’s) RIGHT HAND,.. which made Jesus NOW GREATER THAN THE SONS OF GOD (Heavenly Angels) and consequently ALL MANKIND!!

Interesting ..... see my response to Colt -- as I also alude to Hebrews .. but forgot about that passage .. which is about as anti Trinitarian as you can get .. sans hanging on the Cross calling out that his God has forsaken him.

 

[Soapy]

You aren’t an honest person IMOP.

I never said that Jesus was FIRST a human in heaven before coming to earth! He was a divine spiritual being who became human!

You deliberately misunderstand my posts!

Jesus laid down his mortal flesh on the cross!

Jesus returned in a different form that is not human. I told you this before but again, you are not honest!

You are too dishonest to acknowledge that you understand what I’m saying.

Nothing that you say is honest. You are just ‘taking the Micky’ (making a joke) with scriptural matters. The only benefit from your nonsense is that it provides spiritual resistance got true Christians to exercise against… like a weight that a athlete uses to built up his strength for the games.

 

[Colt]

Assuming these other Gods are under Christs Jurisdiction they would be less powerfull - but that is quite the assumption .. and to think of it .. even though they are under Christs Juridication does not mean they are less powerful that Jesus .... just kept in line by the authority given to him by God. .. but these are assumptions backed up with assumptions.

Who are these other Gods and why would we assume they are less powerful than Jesus ? Jesus is the "Son of Man" - Adopted by Patron God at the age of 30 at his Baptism -- after which like Pharaohs in Egypt , had to undergo a ritual test, prior to being certified as half man/ half God.

In this test Jesus runs into another Son of God named Sataniel .. a God who seems to have more power than Jesus .. able to hurl lightning bolts from the Sky .. in charge of the whole earth one of the Supreme one's main go -to Gods for planet earth when God needs something done .. like the Testing of our friend Job .. and good friend Jesus.

What else do we know .. Sataniel is the offspring of God +God .. while Jesus .. like many of our other half man/half God heros .. some others which are mentioned in Genesis .. is the offspring of God and Human.

We know that Jesus is a Priest of the Order of Melchi-Zedek . .. hence the epiphet "Prince of Peace" .. depiction as arbiter of Truth and Justice.. Judging the right hand of the Supreme one.

I am not so sure that the other Sons of God are less powerful than the Logos ...

“Get yea behind me Satan”. Satan was a fallen Son of God. Adam was a Son of God, he and Eve came to earth as full grown, educated adults. They spoke the same language as the “crafty beast”.

There are a number of sons of God mentioned in the Bible. When Jesus was transfigured into his glorious luminescent spiritual state he met with celestials.

Abraham met with celestials.

 

[Colt]

Nothing that you say is honest. You are just ‘taking the Micky’ (making a joke) with scriptural matters. The only benefit from your nonsense is that it provides spiritual resistance got true Christians to exercise against… like a weight that an athlete uses to built up his strength for the games.

I quote Jesus but you imply that he mislead people.

 

[Soapy]

Interesting ..... see my response to Colt -- as I also alude to Hebrews .. but forgot about that passage .. which is about as anti Trinitarian as you can get .. sans hanging on the Cross calling out that his God has forsaken him.

Yes, it’s interesting when you consider the truth and then compare it to what a disingenuous explanation derives (which is what Colt is making of the scriptures - he doesn’t believe, by the way. He’s just messing with Christian beliefs!!)

When you compile his answers over several posts and threads you will see him kneejerking and lurching from one wrongful concept to another with total incohesiveness.

 

[Soapy]

I quote Jesus but you imply that he mislead people.

I think you got that backwards:
‘Colt misleads people while I quote Jesus’

 

[Colt]

Yes, it’s interesting when you consider the truth and then compare it to what a disingenuous explanation derives (which is what Colt is making of the scriptures - he doesn’t believe, by the way. He’s just messing with Christian beliefs!!)

When you compile his answers over several posts and threads you will see him kneejerking and lurching from one wrongful concept to another with total incohesiveness.

It’s quite simple, our Creator Son Christ Michael, came to earth anonymously as Jesus of Nazareth. He lived in accordance with the will of God who is his Father. During the public faze of his preaching, Jesus “alluded” to his true identity. The religious authorities of his day resented his Liberal Gospel and claims of divinity. They had Jesus killed because of it.

Jesus took the opportunity of being killed to prove life after death to his followers. Jesus did NOT appear to his enemies.

Because the Son of God never died (only his mortal flesh died) he returned on his own volition as he said that he could and would.

God the Son returned to heaven where he rules his many worlds.

 

[Sargonski]

“Get yea behind me Satan”. Satan was a fallen Son of God. Adam was a Son of God, he and Eve came to earth as full grown, educated adults. They spoke the same language as the “crafty beast”.

There are a number of sons of God mentioned in the Bible. When Jesus was transfigured into his glorious luminescent spiritual state he met with celestials.

Abraham met with celestials.

That is a misunderstood passage .. As Jesus had passed his tester .. he was calling Peter his terster .. HeyZeus was basically saying --- Been there done that. .. unless .. Jesus is referring to a different "Son of God"

The Ha Satan -- the Advocate -- the Tester .. One of the numerous Sons of God - visiting the Supreme one up in the heavenly realm in the first Scene of Job -- This Son of God has not fallen ... nor is he ever depicted as fallen in the OT .. nor in the testing of Jesus in the first page of the first Gospel ..

Just as the tester is used by the Supreme one to test Job - this same entity is sent to test Jesus .. but while Sataniel chides is Father -- and they lay down the guantlet .. make a Father Son Bet .. our good friend Sataniel never acts outside the "Will of the Father" . (note to reader -- understand what this means .. as per Matt 7 - Summary of the Sermon on the mount -- teaching how one is put right with God .. winning the prize)

Abe - now this an interesting fellow .. from an interesting age .. declining the worship of the Sons of God .. or other high Gods .. only the "Most High" .. "Supreme One" El Elyon .. El Shaddai ... Chief God of the Canaanite Pantheon - Phonecian Pantheon - and Hebrew Pantheon at that time. El's Son YHWH ends up usurping El as Chief Dieity on Earth .. El is still Most High in the heavens ... head of the "Divine Council" .. the twin Gods represented by Zedek "Justice and Righteousness" at his Right Hand . Zedek the Patron God of Jerusalem at the time (city of Peace) .. the Priest King of this Canaanite City -- at a time when the Kings of Citys named themselves after patron God of city .. Enter Melchi-Zedek .. whome Abe bows before .. as a Priest of the Most High God .. together give sacrifice and praise the Supreme One in Heaven .. Partaking of Bread and Wine in ritual fashion .. 2800 years later we are told that Jesus is a Priest in the Order of Melchi-Zedek ..

David is also forever a Priest - in the order of Melchi-Zedek .. the line continuing from MelchiZedek to 800 years later when David Sacked the city in 1000 BC the name of the Canaanite King at that time was Adoni -Zedek "My Lord is Zedek"

When David takes Jerusalem he does not kill the Priests.. rather the High Priest .. Zadok (surprise surprise) is made High Priest of the Temple .. It is Zadok who annoints King Solomon .

 

[Colt]

That is a misunderstood passage .. As Jesus had passed his tester .. he was calling Peter his terster .. HeyZeus was basically saying --- Been there done that. .. unless .. Jesus is referring to a different "Son of God"

The Ha Satan -- the Advocate -- the Tester .. One of the numerous Sons of God - visiting the Supreme one up in the heavenly realm in the first Scene of Job -- This Son of God has not fallen ... nor is he ever depicted as fallen in the OT .. nor in the testing of Jesus in the first page of the first Gospel ..

Just as the tester is used by the Supreme one to test Job - this same entity is sent to test Jesus .. but while Sataniel chides is Father -- and they lay down the guantlet .. make a Father Son Bet .. our good friend Sataniel never acts outside the "Will of the Father" . (note to reader -- understand what this means .. as per Matt 7 - Summary of the Sermon on the mount -- teaching how one is put right with God .. winning the prize)

Abe - now this an interesting fellow .. from an interesting age .. declining the worship of the Sons of God .. or other high Gods .. only the "Most High" .. "Supreme One" El Elyon .. El Shaddai ... Chief God of the Canaanite Pantheon - Phonecian Pantheon - and Hebrew Pantheon at that time. El's Son YHWH ends up usurping El as Chief Dieity on Earth .. El is still Most High in the heavens ... head of the "Divine Council" .. the twin Gods represented by Zedek "Justice and Righteousness" at his Right Hand . Zedek the Patron God of Jerusalem at the time (city of Peace) .. the Priest King of this Canaanite City -- at a time when the Kings of Citys named themselves after patron God of city .. Enter Melchi-Zedek .. whome Abe bows before .. as a Priest of the Most High God .. together give sacrifice and praise the Supreme One in Heaven .. Partaking of Bread and Wine in ritual fashion .. 2800 years later we are told that Jesus is a Priest in the Order of Melchi-Zedek ..

David is also forever a Priest - in the order of Melchi-Zedek .. the line continuing from MelchiZedek to 800 years later when David Sacked the city in 1000 BC the name of the Canaanite King at that time was Adoni -Zedek "My Lord is Zedek"

When David takes Jerusalem he does not kill the Priests.. rather the High Priest .. Zadok (surprise surprise) is made High Priest of the Temple .. It is Zadok who annoints King Solomon .

Was the "Crafty Beast" a real person or just a tester?

 

[Sargonski]

Was the "Crafty Beast" a real person or just a tester?

Obviously a full on God .. A "Son of God" -- on a first name basis with the Supreme one - with mighty God-Powers .. Some may quibble about the definition .. about the amount of power required to be a God .. but in my books .. the ability to hang out with God in Heaven .. knowing that combination .. go back and forth between there and Earth .. being able to control the weather .. hurl down lightning bolts .. and kill folks on a whim.. to satisfy a bet in the case of poor Job ..

"Crafty Beast" -- is this a conflation of Satan with the Snake ? . these are two different God's friend --- Satan is not the Snake .. not the primordial chos Serpent -- or Serpent of Order depending on ones vision.

"Just a Tester" -- Not "Just" a Tester .... that and so much more .