Jesus in Heaven is not God

[amazing grace]

I'm quoting Jesus, I'm going to stick with his words and deeds.

His words and his deeds came from the One working in and through him. His teachings were not his own - His deeds were not his own.

My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. (John 7:16,17)
For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment---what to say and what to speak . . . I say as the Father has told me. (John 12:49, 50b)
Paul spoke by revelation from Jesus Christ - For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:11, 12)
. . . holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit - ALL scripture is inspired by God . . .

But hey, if you want to only rely on certain parts of scripture and not the whole of scripture - both of which came from God - that's all on you.

 

[Colt]

But hey, if you want to only rely on certain parts of scripture and not the whole of scripture - both of which came from God - that's all on you.

^^^^Thats what you do ^^^^ maybe you should get honest with yourself???

Jesus wasn't simply a ventriloquist while or earth or now after his spirit was poured out upon all flesh. He was and is much, much, MUCH more than a local carpenter!

 

[amazing grace]

^^^^Thats what you do ^^^^ maybe you should get honest with yourself???

Jesus wasn't simply a ventriloquist while or earth or now after his spirit was poured out upon all flesh. He was and is much, much, MUCH more than a local carpenter!

I'm not the one who said "I'm quoting Jesus, I'm going to stick with his words and deeds." but I have pulled scripture from other areas of the word of God to back up my claims.

Correct, Jesus wasn't a ventriloquist but he fulfilled the prophecy given in Deuteronomy where God said "I will raise up for them a prophet like from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him."
God was not that prophet!

Jesus was much more than "the carpenter's son", he was the Son of God filled with the power of God and it was that power that gave Jesus wisdom and allowed him to do many mighty works. It was God working in and through Jesus, the man, to accomplish all that he accomplished. Mankind owed God a debt, a debt due because of sin that was passed through Adam to all mankind. (The wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23) It took another man, another human being, to pay that debt to reconcile us back to Him - Therefore, if anyone is IN Christ, he is a new creation. . . All this is from God, who THROUGH Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconcilieation, that is, God was IN Christ reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them. . . For our sake He made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor. 5) Jesus is everything that God originally intended for man, and more, which includes all glory and honor. And in his exaltation, we who believe on him will be exalted with him and share in his glory!

 

[Colt]

I'm not the one who said "I'm quoting Jesus, I'm going to stick with his words and deeds." but I have pulled scripture from other areas of the word of God to back up my claims.

Correct, Jesus wasn't a ventriloquist but he fulfilled the prophecy given in Deuteronomy where God said "I will raise up for them a prophet like from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him."
God was not that prophet!

Jesus was much more than "the carpenter's son", he was the Son of God filled with the power of God and it was that power that gave Jesus wisdom and allowed him to do many mighty works. It was God working in and through Jesus, the man, to accomplish all that he accomplished. Mankind owed God a debt, a debt due because of sin that was passed through Adam to all mankind. (The wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23) It took another man, another human being, to pay that debt to reconcile us back to Him - Therefore, if anyone is IN Christ, he is a new creation. . . All this is from God, who THROUGH Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconcilieation, that is, God was IN Christ reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them. . . For our sake He made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor. 5) Jesus is everything that God originally intended for man, and more, which includes all glory and honor. And in his exaltation, we who believe on him will be exalted with him and share in his glory!

Location, location, location! Deuteronomy is Moses's farewell address and admonitions meant for the age immediately following his departure when the Israelites enter the land promised to them. The prophet Jashua was the next leader some 1200+ years before Christ or any of the other prophets inbetween.

The Son incarnate as human and divine had the power of his own will, the prerogatives of a deity. he always credited the source of his power.

 

[amazing grace]

Location, location, location! Deuteronomy is Moses's farewell address and admonitions meant for the age immediately following his departure when the Israelites enter the land promised to them. The prophet Jashua was the next leader some 1200+ years before Christ or any of the other prophets inbetween.

The Son incarnate as human and divine had the power of his own will, the prerogatives of a deity. he always credited the source of his power.

Yes, Deuteronomy is part of the OT. The OT contains many Messianic prophesies. I don't agree with your understanding of Deut. 18 is all I can say nor of who Jesus Christ is.

 

[Soapy]

....."Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?".....


Plural manifestation. The divine Sons of God are unified in divinity with the Father, they are all God in spirit. To see a Creator Son is as close as we can get to seeing the Universal Father. The Father gives of himself in the creation of his Sons and their sons.​

Jesus explained this profound phenomenon to his apostles:


5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit​

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

The promised Spirit of God is what THE FATHER promised … it is HIS SPIRIT which He promised to the apostles:

• ‘The promise from the Father which I will send to you’

 

[Soapy]

Your response holds a lot of supposition. I don't believe that Jesus was divided into parts - one part man and one part God. I believe he was human in every way just as we are. It was God, his Father that worked in and through him to perform the works he performed.

It is too clear that scripture consistently preserves a clear line of separation between God and Jesus. Jesus is clearly delineated as a man in scripture and that would seem to disqualify him from being God - for God is not a man.

Yes, absolutely correct.

For instance, who is it that is ‘Coming with the clouds’? The Son of Man…!

Who is in the night vision of Daniel being brought before the ‘Ancient of days’? One like the Son of Man…!

Who did John say was raised up to Heaven? The Man, Jesus Christ…

 

[Colt]

The promised Spirit of God is what THE FATHER promised … it is HIS SPIRIT which He promised to the apostles:

• ‘The promise from the Father which I will send to you’

Jesus is the spirit of truth, the helper, the Father and Son in one Gift.

I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.



“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus is the spirit of truth, the helper, the Father and Son in one Gift.

I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.



“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

You are making yourself even more of a self-deluding influence if you think that presenting such corruptions to me will enhance your status here in this forum. It is quite obvious you have no true intent to debate scriptures and are just seeking satanic merits - you should be reported but I’ll leave that to others - Even Gollum in Lord of the Rings was not properly berated even though he did many wicked things: ‘The ArchAngel Michael, in debating with Satan over the body of Moses, did not raise an accusation against him but said only, “May God rebuke you!!’.. I say the same to you!!!

 

[Colt]

You are making yourself even more of a self-deluding influence if you think that presenting such corruptions to me will enhance your status here in this forum. It is quite obvious you have no true intent to debate scriptures and are just seeking satanic merits - you should be reported but I’ll leave that to others - Even Gollum in Lord of the Rings was not properly berated even though he did many wicked things: ‘The ArchAngel Michael, in debating with Satan over the body of Moses, did not raise an accusation against him but said only, “May God rebuke you!!’.. I say the same to you!!!

Using the scripture, I directly quoted Jesus which debunks your claim, and you get nasty because you lost the debate.

The spirit of the Son IS the spirit of truth. The Father has always been available to those who seek him.

I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

 

[Soapy]

Using the scripture, I directly quoted Jesus which debunks your claim, and you get nasty because you lost the debate.

The spirit of the Son IS the spirit of truth. The Father has always been available to those who seek him.

I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Colt, the words you quoted from Jesus are not synchronous with the point you think you are making. Jesus clarifies his meaning of ‘be with you and not leave the apostles alone in a later verse:

• ‘But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.’ (John 14:26)

This verse encompasses both what the Father promised and Jesus’ own words: The advocate who is to remain with the apostles; the advocate who is the gift from the Father. Double whammy winning verse!

Do you really not feel any indiscretions while you post fraudulent responses … is seeking and presenting reviling beliefs doing something for your spiritual welfare? I urge you to rethink where you are going with your mindset thag is so badly miscued!!

 

[Colt]

Colt, the words you quoted from Jesus are not synchronous with the point you think you are making. Jesus clarifies his meaning of ‘be with you and not leave the apostles alone in a later verse:

• ‘But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.’ (John 14:26)

This verse encompasses both what the Father promised and Jesus’ own words: The advocate who is to remain with the apostles; the advocate who is the gift from the Father. Double whammy winning verse!

Do you really not feel any indiscretions while you post fraudulent responses … is seeking and presenting reviling beliefs doing something for your spiritual welfare? I urge you to rethink where you are going with your mindset thag is so badly miscued!!

Jesus IS the advocate. I don’t need to rethink what Jesus taught. Your disbelief is your own issue.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus is the spirit of truth, the helper, the Father and Son in one Gift.

I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.



“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

This sure is not Jesus speaking about himself but rather Jesus speaking about the Spirit of the Father… the Spirit, the advocate, the helper… whom Jesus said was ‘The Gift of the Father’, ‘The gift that the Father promised’ to the apostles.

And note that IT WILL TAKE OF WHAT IS JESUS’ and give to them: (John 16:14)

How are you saying that Jesus IS the Spirit from the Father …and yet the Spirit from the Father TAKES FROM WHAT IS JESUS and gives to the apostles? Jesus is taking from himself???

 

[amazing grace]

Jesus IS the advocate. I don’t need to rethink what Jesus taught. Your disbelief is your own issue.

I know we will disagree but the advocate, the helper, the comforter is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of truth - John 14:26

 

[Colt]

I know we will disagree but the advocate, the helper, the comforter is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of truth - John 14:26

Is the Holy Spirit separate from the Father? Jesus referred to it as “him” and “I”.

 

[amazing grace]

Is the Holy Spirit separate from the Father? Jesus referred to it as “him” and “I”.

Depends on context. The Holy Spirit is God but there is also the gift of holy spirit. The translators referred to "it" as "him" and "I" and it's true that the Greek word could be translated that way but also could have been translated by the word "it". ekeinos - he, she, it, etc.
But the Comforter (helper, advocate), which is the Holy Ghost, whom (os - who, which, what, that) the Father will send in my name, he (it) shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. [John 14:26] In this context the comforter is the promise of the Father which Jesus poured out on the day of Pentecost.

 

[Colt]

Depends on context. The Holy Spirit is God but there is also the gift of holy spirit. The translators referred to "it" as "him" and "I" and it's true that the Greek word could be translated that way but also could have been translated by the word "it". ekeinos - he, she, it, etc.
But the Comforter (helper, advocate), which is the Holy Ghost, whom (os - who, which, what, that) the Father will send in my name, he (it) shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. [John 14:26] In this context the comforter is the promise of the Father which Jesus poured out on the day of Pentecost.

Btw, it would have been a translation first from Aramaic to Greek then to English.

Jesus explained that it was actually to the benefit of his followers that he return to the spirit world from whence he came because his spiritual presence within the family of God could continue to guide and teach.

[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I and he, the spirit of truth, is the same person in hindsight. It’s the presence of the voice of the shepherd.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus IS the advocate. I don’t need to rethink what Jesus taught. Your disbelief is your own issue.

Jesus said he would send ANOTHER advocate …

Does ‘Another’ mean ‘the same one’ to you?

 

[Soapy]

Btw, it would have been a translation first from Aramaic to Greek then to English.

Jesus explained that it was actually to the benefit of his followers that he return to the spirit world from whence he came because his spiritual presence within the family of God could continue to guide and teach.

[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I and he, the spirit of truth, is the same person in hindsight. It’s the presence of the voice of the shepherd.

‘I’ and ‘He’ are the same person?

 

[Soapy]

Depends on context. The Holy Spirit is God but there is also the gift of holy spirit. The translators referred to "it" as "him" and "I" and it's true that the Greek word could be translated that way but also could have been translated by the word "it". ekeinos - he, she, it, etc.
But the Comforter (helper, advocate), which is the Holy Ghost, whom (os - who, which, what, that) the Father will send in my name, he (it) shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. [John 14:26] In this context the comforter is the promise of the Father which Jesus poured out on the day of Pentecost.

It was GOD, who is the Father, who poured out HIS SPIRIT onto those in the upper room in the firm of tongues of fire and high wind. It was done THROUGH Jesus Christ in terms of a ‘deliverer’: Jesus Christ DELIVERED the GIFT FROM THE FATHER, as it says in Acts 2:33:

• ‘Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.’ (Acts 2:33)

A mailman DELIVERS what has been given to him from the owner of the gift that is sent:

1. OWNER/SENDER
2. DELIVERER
3. RECEIVER