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Jesus in India

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
There is no proof as yet, but there is a good body of evidence - about as much to support the "Jesus in India" hypothesis as Jesus' general historicity.

What I'd like to see is DNA testing of the body in the Rozabal, and the body in Muree.

If we see that the man in the Rozabal is the son of the woman in Muree, and that they were genetically Jewish and lived 2000~ years ago... that would be compelling evidence - certainly closer to proof than anything else we have on Jesus' life.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
If we see that the man in the Rozabal is the son of the woman in Muree, and that they were genetically Jewish and lived 2000~ years ago... that would be compelling evidence - certainly closer to proof than anything else we have on Jesus' life.
Actually, it would be no such thing, and the fact that you believe otherwise demonstrates remarkably flawed thinking.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Well, I certainly do not know much about this story. I have heard it mentioned many times but never researched the topic. I do not see why it is an impossibility. Nor, would I imagine that a traveling ascetic gave Jesus instruction is an impossibility. I have not read the nag hammadi scriptures but from my understanding they convey a more Eastern philosophy. I wonder if given the ability to read the greek in which the original scriptures were written if we would still come to the translations that we have today. Anyhow, my limited understanding of these scriptures that were found is that some of them date just as far back as the oldest gospels in the New Testament.

When we look at the New Testament vs. the Old Testament is there a shift in philosophy?

Is there a shift in the concept of God?

And can Bhuddism, Hinduism, Jainism, or another Dharmic religion bridge the gap in philosophy?

If this is the case could we suggest the message Jesus was trying to bring still exists in the living word of Gurus?

I cannot claim to know the answer to these questions but they are certainly fun concepts to ponder.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Also, I would find it hysterical if today's Christians were the consequence of western linear thought perverting the teachings of Hinduism.:biglaugh:
 

cyberman

New Member
I do not see why it is an impossibility.

No-one is claiming it is an impossibility - that point is not under discussion. I am simply pointing out that proof has been claimed, and yet no proof has been offered. People keep producing claims, rumours and assertions and calling them proof.
 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
Well, I certainly do not know much about this story. I have heard it mentioned many times but never researched the topic. I do not see why it is an impossibility. Nor, would I imagine that a traveling ascetic gave Jesus instruction is an impossibility. I have not read the nag hammadi scriptures but from my understanding they convey a more Eastern philosophy. I wonder if given the ability to read the greek in which the original scriptures were written if we would still come to the translations that we have today. Anyhow, my limited understanding of these scriptures that were found is that some of them date just as far back as the oldest gospels in the New Testament.

When we look at the New Testament vs. the Old Testament is there a shift in philosophy?

Is there a shift in the concept of God?

And can Bhuddism, Hinduism, Jainism, or another Dharmic religion bridge the gap in philosophy?

If this is the case could we suggest the message Jesus was trying to bring still exists in the living word of Gurus?

I cannot claim to know the answer to these questions but they are certainly fun concepts to ponder.

Some of the Nag Hammadi texts are extremely close in theory and practice to prominent strains of Hinduism and Buddhism. Take, for example, the Apocryphon of John:
The Secret Book of John (Apocryphon of John)

You'll see in the first section a similar philosophy and cosmogony, and in the section labeled "Construction of the Human Body" ideas/practice which would be called tantric in the Indic milieu.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
There is no proof as yet, but there is a good body of evidence - about as much to support the "Jesus in India" hypothesis as Jesus' general historicity.

What I'd like to see is DNA testing of the body in the Rozabal, and the body in Muree.

If we see that the man in the Rozabal is the son of the woman in Muree, and that they were genetically Jewish and lived 2000~ years ago... that would be compelling evidence - certainly closer to proof than anything else we have on Jesus' life.

Why don't they perform the DNA test; to resolve the controversy?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
There was a good deal of population churning throughout the period covered by 2 Kings and the Jewish diaspora was robust.
As early as the middle of the 2nd century BCE the Jewish author of the third book of the Oracula Sibyllina addressed the "chosen people," saying: "Every land is full of thee and every sea." The most diverse witnesses, such as Strabo, Philo, Seneca, Luke (the author of the Acts of the Apostles), Cicero, and Josephus, all mention Jewish populations in the cities of the Mediterranean basin. See also History of the Jews in India and History of the Jews in China for pre-Roman (and post-) diasporac populations. King Agrippa I, in a letter to Caligula, enumerated among the provinces of the Jewish diaspora almost all the Hellenized and non-Hellenized countries of the Orient. This enumeration was far from complete as Italy and Cyrene were not included. The epigraphic discoveries from year to year augment the number of known Jewish communities but must be viewed with caution due to the lack of precise evidence of their numbers. According to Josephus, the next most dense Jewish population after the Land of Israel and Babylonia was in Syria, particularly in Antioch, and Damascus, where 10,000 to 18,000 Jews were massacred during the great insurrection. Philo gives the number of Jewish inhabitants in Egypt as one million, one-eighth of the population. Alexandria was by far the most important of the Egyptian Jewish communities.

To judge by the accounts of wholesale massacres in 115 BCE, the number of Jewish residents in Cyrenaica, Cyprus, and Mesopotamia was also large. At the commencement of the reign of Caesar Augustus, there were over 7,000 Jews in Rome (this is the number that escorted the envoys who came to demand the deposition of Archelaus). Finally, if the sums confiscated by the governor Lucius Valerius Flaccus in the year 62/61 BCE represented the tax of a didrachma per head for a single year, it would imply that the Jewish population of Asia Minor numbered 45,000 adult males, for a total of at least 180,000 persons.
A mother and son with Jewish roots proves absolutly nothing. To think otherwise is simply laughable.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
There is no proof as yet, but there is a good body of evidence - about as much to support the "Jesus in India" hypothesis as Jesus' general historicity.

I agree, fwiw. And conversely, there is nothing to disprove it. The only inconsistency is that if Jesus was as important during his own lifetime as the gospels purport, the Romans and Greeks, who wrote everything from recipes to grammars, would have written about him.

That little inconsistency can be resolved, however, by the presumption that he was not worthy of being written about, until well into the first century CE, when his story took off like a 747. Look at the legends surrounding George Washington and Abraham Lincoln just within the past 2 to 3 centuries, much less 20 centuries for Jesus being blown out of all proportion. He may have very well been just an itinerant yogi-preacher disseminating similar concepts from the East.

To throw so much more (Eastern philosophy) at his audience than he did would probably have gotten boulders hurled at him, never mind simply stoned to death. I think much of what he tried to get across comes (someway, somehow) from the East.

The Sermon on the Mount According to Vedanta by Swami Prabhavananda certainly opened my eyes, and is worthy of re-reading and re-reading and...
 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
Were it most others raising such objections, I'd consider a rational debate possible. With you, it's too emotional, not to mention vulgar.
 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
The only inconsistency is that if Jesus was as important during his own lifetime as the gospels purport, the Romans and Greeks, who wrote everything from recipes to grammars, would have written about him.

Perhaps, but there's also the practice of 'damnatio memoriae' to consider.

To throw so much more (Eastern philosophy) at his audience than he did would probably have gotten boulders hurled at him, never mind simply stoned to death. I think much of what he tried to get across comes (someway, somehow) from the East
.

Yes, I think that's why most of his public teachings were in parables, whereas the gnostic gospels contain more explicitly "Eastern" outlooks.
The Sermon on the Mount According to Vedanta by Swami Prabhavananda certainly opened my eyes, and is worthy of re-reading and re-reading and...
I'll check it out, thanks.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Furthermore, travel and trade between East and West was not as difficult as one might think (precluding bandits and highway robbers). Consider the speed with which trade traveled over the Silk Roads. It was actually a network, not one road, and included sea routes. No need to even traverse the mountains of Southwest and South Asia. From Palestine across northern Arabian peninsula to the Tigris and Euphrates, to the Persian Gulf to the Indian Ocean, to the west coast of India. A one way trip took about a year. And that was actually to reach China. To India should have been less time.

Marco Polo was about 14(?) when he went to China. If Jesus began traveling at age 12-14, one year later, say 15 years old to reach the East, 15 years spent there and another year to travel back home... there's 15-18 years of his life. Not really an impossibility imo.

 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
When Alexander invaded Northern India, the aftermath created many trade links between the Mediterranean and the subcontinent. Alexandria is the likely place for Jesus' family to have fled to, as Joseph was a tekton - which is more than a carpenter, something vaguely like a modern engineer - and Alexandria was a major shipping and shipbuilding center. It also had the greatest concentration of Jewry outside of Israel/Judea itself, and was host to many philosophies - including those 'imported' from the East.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, there we have an even better theory! :D

Yeah, btw, we get the word 'tectonic', Latin tectonicus as in tectonic plates ultimately from the Greek word tekton, which does carry the meaning of building. Tectonic plates do build mountains.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
When Alexander invaded Northern India, the aftermath created many trade links between the Mediterranean and the subcontinent.
The Jewish diaspora reached India ...
Jesus was Jewish ...
therefore, if we find evidence of a mother an son with Jewsih roots ...
"that would be compelling evidence" for Jesus in India!​

Did I mention laughable? :biglaugh:
 
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