Jesus is a Fictional Character

[oldbadger]

..........The first attestation of a gospel was by Justin Martyr about 150CE, he was the first person known to possibly have a copy of a gospel which he referred to as "memoirs of his apostles." .................

Excellent! For years I have thought that G-Mark (without the Xian bits) is based upon the memoirs of Cephas.

I must remember the above.

 

[DNB]

I know right? It’s tempting to go to the mall and preach faith in Harry Potter.

..yes, imagine that, ...even unto death.

 

[Colt]

I think regardless of whether there existed a Jew/Rabbi at the source of the Biblical account. Jesus did not write anything. Can't even be sure, if he existed, what he looked like.

What we have is a fictional character, not a real character. There is simply not enough information about Jesus for Jesus to be real character. Even the name Jesus is a fictional creation.

Are you ok with Jesus as fictional or do you feel a need to insist that Jesus existed as a real person?

If you don't write a book about yourself, signed off on by a number of today's historians, then in 2000 years you will only be a myth regardless of the influence you have on anyone living today!

 

[ElishaElijah]

I have been there and checked it out.

So you found no evidence there? That’s interesting. Not only that but the Bible itself was written from copies of the writings and testimonies of eye witnesses from the first century. Jesus is also active in lives from the first century until now by the Holy Spirit, The Bible or the Word of God not a dead, but living and active, God speaks to people through His Word today. Go to some baptisms and listen to the testimonies of people whose lives have been changed. Jesus is alive and there’s living proof all around, these testimonies are from the first century to the current 2022 date and all consistent with each other.
What’s the copyright date of your literary scholarships?

 

[PruePhillip]

I think regardless of whether there existed a Jew/Rabbi at the source of the Biblical account. Jesus did not write anything. Can't even be sure, if he existed, what he looked like.

What we have is a fictional character, not a real character. There is simply not enough information about Jesus for Jesus to be real character. Even the name Jesus is a fictional creation.

Are you ok with Jesus as fictional or do you feel a need to insist that Jesus existed as a real person?

Hannibal, the Carthagian general who invaded Rome with war elephants, is a fictional character too
on this basis. He wrote nothing. There's no archaelogical evidence. There's all sorts of fantastic mythic
components to the story, such as Carthagians rode on giange scorpions and Hannibal's nemesis was
the son of the gods.
I would say this about many 'historic' figures.

 

[Audie]

Well........ you're on here, on this thread.

Maybe metaphorical analogies are not your thing.

 

[1213]

...
What we have is a fictional character, not a real character. There is simply not enough information about Jesus for Jesus to be real character. Even the name Jesus is a fictional creation....

Are all other people that we know less about, also fictional?

I think people are too evil and stupid to make up Jesus out of nothing. If people would have managed to develop on their own the teachings Jesus says in the Bible, they would have taken the credit to themselves and not give it to some fictional character.

 

[Clara Tea]

Playing devil's advocate, there is secular evidence that verify Jesus was a real person, such as the historical accounts of Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus (37-100 A.D.), and the historical accounts of Roman historian, Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 A.D.)

The Bible Says Jesus Was Real. What Other Proof Exists?

What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?

Proving that Jesus existed would be "God's advocate"....not "devil's advocate." (Though, the connection is well obscured by religious wars, tortures, etc).

I agree with your research...it matches mine.

 

[Clara Tea]

Are all other people that we know less about, also fictional?

I think people are too evil and stupid to make up Jesus out of nothing. If people would have managed to develop on their own the teachings Jesus says in the Bible, they would have taken the credit to themselves and not give it to some fictional character.

Fred Flintstone is married to Wilma, has a girl named Pebbles, has a best friend next door (Barney Rubble, and he has a wife Betty and adopted son, Bambam). Fred works at a quarry as a dinosaur crane operator. He drives a foot peddled car. Etc.

We know more about Fred Flintstone than Jesus.

Why have people not made the leap of faith that cartoon characters are real and should be worshipped? If proof of Godly powers is not necessary, why not believe in cartoons?

"I think people are too evil and stupid to make up Jesus out of nothing," you said. So only good people can tell lies about the existence of Jesus? Evil people don't believe in demigods? What about all of the good people who don't believe as you do?

Am I evil and stupid too? If I wasn't so stupid, I'd know the answer to that.

 

[Clara Tea]

He's real. Loves you too.

We started the conversation asking if Jesus was real. Now we have to also ask if Jesus loves us. Let me add....Does Jesus have the power to help us? If we pray for relief from cancer, does Jesus help us? Are any prayers answered?

It wasn't Jesus's idea to die for our sins. He had asked God "why hath thou foresaken me?" That isn't dying willingly, that's dying because God allows him to suffer and die.

Should we want to go to heaven and be next to such a cruel God for eternity?

 

[Clara Tea]

You're implying that later Christians edited Josephus to reference Jesus without proof. I mean they could have but you don't have any proof.

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

Wikipedia (above) explains why most scholars reject Josephus's reference to Jesus (called Testimonium Flavianum). However, they accept Josephus's reference to James (brother of Jesus).

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

Testimonium Flavianum (meaning the testimony of Flavius Josephus) is a passage found in Book 18, Chapter 3.

"wording in the Testimonium differs from Josephus' usual writing style and that as a Jew, he would not have used a word like Christos (Χριστός), at Josephus' time being the Greek term for "Messiah"" (source: Wikipedia, Testimonium Flavianum--website above).

"three possible perspectives on the authenticity of the Testimonium:

1. It is entirely authentic.
2. It is entirely a Christian forgery.
3. It contains Christian interpolations in what was Josephus' authentic material about Jesus." (source: Maier and Barus...Wikipedia, Testimonium Flavianum).

If we took the matter to court, the judge would say...."we have a choice to believe utter nonsense that is completely unproveable, or we could believe only that which could be proven." Theists would go with unproveable, atheists would only accept the proveable. When God is chasing you, you have no choice but to hedge your bets.

 

[pearl]

What we have is a fictional character, not a real character.

According to Bultmann 'the man named "Jesus' was an eschatological Jewish prophet whose original disciples knew him only as such, and whom the post-apostolic Hellenistic church deified as the Son of God "Jesus proclaimed the Kingdom of God...the kerygma of the Hellenistic church proclaimed Jesus as the crucified and risen Christ". Each NT document shaped by the historical Jesus dressed in the mythical garb of the Gnostic "heavenly redeemer"

Jesus did not write anything.

True, He wrote nothing.

Are you ok with Jesus as fictional or do you feel a need to insist that Jesus existed as a real person?

I agree there is scant extra biblical source for His existence but its enough for me as I do not believe Him to be fictional.

 

[Clara Tea]

As real as the flood?

Laugh now....I'm building an ark. You'd think I could get a little help from a pair of elephants (it's for them, too).

 

[Clara Tea]

According to Bultmann 'the man named "Jesus' was an eschatological Jewish prophet whose original disciples knew him only as such, and whom the post-apostolic Hellenistic church deified as the Son of God "Jesus proclaimed the Kingdom of God...the kerygma of the Hellenistic church proclaimed Jesus as the crucified and risen Christ". Each NT document shaped by the historical Jesus dressed in the mythical garb of the Gnostic "heavenly redeemer"



True, He wrote nothing.



I agree there is scant extra biblical source for His existence but its enough for me as I do not believe Him to be fictional.

Maybe we are fictional? Has anyone (other than Descartes) proven that we're real?

If we're not real, I suppose it is fine to believe in a God that is not real.

 

[pearl]

Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome....[5]

I think there was a reply (Pliny) that described those called Christians sang hymns to Jesus as though a god.

 

[Clara Tea]

I know right? It’s tempting to go to the mall and preach faith in Harry Potter.

Hey...poking fun of Harry Potter.....Where is my list of spells and hexes.

Harry Potter Spell List - All Spells On One Page! - Pojo.com

Ah....here it is.

Ptttt. Yuck....just at an any-flavored jelly bean....it tasted like jelly belly jelly beans. Ruined my concentration on my spell.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What is meant by die for your faith is in the context of those men and women that lived and walked with Jesus Christ when He was on the Earth. They wouldn’t have concocted a huge lie and then died, endured torture and lost everything for that lie.

Really? Didn't Jim Jones and David Koresh concoct a huge lie that people believed and died for? People going to their death in large numbers over a false belief isn't too unusual. This argument might have been more compelling were we not living through a pandemic in which large numbers of people are dying for a strongly held but false belief.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Really? Didn't Jim Jones and David Koresh concoct a huge lie that people believed and died for? People going to their death in large numbers over a false belief isn't too unusual. This argument might have been more compelling were we not living through a pandemic in which large numbers of people are dying for a strongly held but false belief.

People believed David Koresh and Jim Jones who died and are in the grave. People aren’t following them now.
If the apostles didn’t see Jesus after He rose from the dead and was still in the grave, they wouldn’t have concocted the whole story and died for that. They would’ve went back to fishing or whatever, but Jesus did rise from the dead, He walked with them 40 days after that, they saw Him got to
Heaven, they obeyed His command to wait in Jerusalem till they receive power of the Holy Spirit, they did receive power at Pentecost and this is all recorded in the Book of Acts. Much different than the cult and false prophet examples you’re using which by the way Jesus prophesied and warned us about.

 

[lukethethird]

Excellent! For years I have thought that G-Mark (without the Xian bits) is based upon the memoirs of Cephas.

I must remember the above.

That's Christian folklore, everyone that has read some scholarship is aware of that nonsense, read something by an actual historian, besides, Justin Matyr's quotes appear to come from gLuke.

 

[Audie]

Really? Didn't Jim Jones and David Koresh concoct a huge lie that people believed and died for? People going to their death in large numbers over a false belief isn't too unusual. This argument might have been more compelling were we not living through a pandemic in which large numbers of people are dying for a strongly held but false belief.

We've tried pointing out how "die for
a lie" has been done countless times,
but they always come up with some little
distinction without a difference that makes
their case "special".

Then its out in the weeds n down the
rabbit hole splitting hairs over the distinction..