People believed David Koresh and Jim Jones who died and are in the grave. People aren’t following them now.
That's probably because nobody is promoting them. The point remains that people will believe things that cause them to give up their lives, and those things can be false, meaning that simply because a large number of people died for a belief is not a reason to believe what they did. The arguments refuted suggested that there wouldn't be so many people dying for a false doctrine, and my point was that that is not correct.
If the apostles didn’t see Jesus after He rose from the dead and was still in the grave, they wouldn’t have concocted the whole story and died for that. They would’ve went back to fishing or whatever, but Jesus did rise from the dead, He walked with them 40 days after that, they saw Him got to Heaven, they obeyed His command to wait in Jerusalem till they receive power of the Holy Spirit, they did receive power at Pentecost and this is all recorded in the Book of Acts.
None of those words makes me believe that anybody saw a man three days dead get up and walk around or leave the earth, or that people don't concoct stories or die from believing them. Isn't that the argument - that there must be more than a bunch of mistaken people if so many died willingly for their belief?
How hard would it be today to convince a bunch of people of something false that gets them killed believing it? I already mention the Covid vaccine disinformation. How hard was it to get that woman that was killed at the Capitol building to die for a false election hoax belief. People are easily deceived, even unto death.
Much different than the cult and false prophet examples you’re using
No, not different in a relevant sense. People being lied to, believing the lie, and dying for that belief is pretty much all the same thing, the differences being the particular lie, the number believing it, and the number dying from that. How many Americans have gone to war and died for the lie that they were defending freedom? You could also argue that because there were so many of them, they must have been on to something, but that would be incorrect as well.
We've tried pointing out how "die for a lie" has been done countless times, but they always come up with some little distinction without a difference that makes their case "special". Then its out in the weeds n down the rabbit hole splitting hairs over the distinction..
You called it.