Jesus is God?

[emiliano]

We are going to go in circles, all that I want to say is what I already said before, this is the problem with dead languages, the main religion Judaism is a post exilic religion that lost it language and it was the scribes that translated and interpreted their doctrines, we can see that the word one was used as a compounded one and my question is who do we trust? Personally I made my decision I believe what Jesus said about the tweaking that the scribes perpetrate on the scriptures, He said “bind heavy and hard-to-carry burdens and lay them on men's shoulders” in order to exploit them.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and pray at length as a pretense. Therefore you shall receive the greater condemnation”
“Whoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor” what a tweak ah!
Mat 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outside, but inside they are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Therefore, behold, I send prophets and wise men and scribes to you. And you will kill and crucify some of them. And some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city;
Who can we trust?

 

[Poisonshady313]

We are going to go in circles, all that I want to say is what I already said before, this is the problem with dead languages, the main religion Judaism is a post exilic religion that lost it language and it was the scribes that translated and interpreted their doctrines, we can see that the word one was used as a compounded one and my question is who do we trust? Personally I made my decision I believe what Jesus said about the tweaking that the scribes perpetrate on the scriptures, He said “bind heavy and hard-to-carry burdens and lay them on men's shoulders” in order to exploit them.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and pray at length as a pretense. Therefore you shall receive the greater condemnation”
“Whoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor” what a tweak ah!
Mat 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outside, but inside they are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Therefore, behold, I send prophets and wise men and scribes to you. And you will kill and crucify some of them. And some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city;
Who can we trust?

I believe Jesus was a false prophet, thus his words are unreliable. It's more likely to me that he was cursing righteous men.

 

[Poisonshady313]

You've said this over and over start a new thread for God's sake. Don't be a troll on this one.

Regards,
Scott

I'm responding directly to a comment made by emiliano. If my comments bug you so much, put me on ignore.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I apologize, I was confusing threads, i.e. Jesus died (but not on the cross) thread.

I'll delete my post if you like.

Regards,
Scott

Please do. And when you do, I'll delete this one and the other one responding to it.

 

[emiliano]

I believe Jesus was a false prophet, thus his words are unreliable. It's more likely to me that he was cursing righteous men.

But the Lord was just echoing what the prophet Ezekiel prophesied , do you believe in him? Eze 34:1 And the Word of Jehovah came to me, saying,
Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to them, So says the Lord Jehovah to the shepherds: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
Was Ezekiel a false prophet cursing righteous men?
Eze 34:10 So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock. Nor shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouth, and they will not be food to devour.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.

 

[Poisonshady313]

But the Lord was just echoing what the prophet Ezekiel prophesied , do you believe in him? Eze 34:1 And the Word of Jehovah came to me, saying,
Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to them, So says the Lord Jehovah to the shepherds: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
Was Ezekiel a false prophet cursing righteous men?
Eze 34:10 So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock. Nor shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouth, and they will not be food to devour.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.

Ezekiel was not a false prophet. Jesus was.

Gee, that was easy.

 

[emiliano]

Ezekiel was not a false prophet. Jesus was.

Gee, that was easy.

It is clear from what the prophet Ezekiel prophesied that Israel is no longer the Holy priesthood from the exile onward, that God will require His flock at the hand of the religious leader, and that God Himself will deliver flock from their mouth, and they will not be food to devour. And you are out of the loop and blinded, soooo what your judgments of what constitute a false prophet is of no consequence .
Eze 34:11 For so says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out
It is clear enough that God who is a spirit would come and do all this “The Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us” in Christ Jesus.
Craiky! That was easy.

 

[Poisonshady313]

It is clear from what the prophet Ezekiel prophesied that Israel is no longer the Holy priesthood from the exile onward, that God will require His flock at the hand of the religious leader, and that God Himself will deliver flock from their mouth, and they will not be food to devour. And you are out of the loop and blinded, soooo what your judgments of what constitute a false prophet is of no consequence .
Eze 34:11 For so says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out
It is clear enough that God who is a spirit would come and do all this “The Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us” in Christ Jesus.
Craiky! That was easy.

A common mistake for those who don't know what the prophets are saying is to assume that the condemnation of a particular generation of Jews doing the wrong things extends to all of Israel forever and ever.

I am neither out of the loop nor blinded. And the Torah is the basis for what makes a prophet a prophet (or a false prophet.. Deuteronomy 18, among other places)

 

[nawab]

exactly Jesus was not condeming all the tribe of israel, remeember he was also from the tribe of israel, I am more suprised by the divinity of Jesus rather than Jesus being a prophet. If Jesus was a prophet it can be, but the divinity of Jesus is already going against the idea of the Abrahamic Faith the unity of the Almighty God. The Lord of the Universe. I feel that why Jews dont accept Jesus has mainly to do with Christians, because they claim that Jesus is divine and co-equal with God which is a great blasphemy of the higest order

 

[Poisonshady313]

exactly Jesus was not condeming all the tribe of israel, remeember he was also from the tribe of israel, I am more suprised by the divinity of Jesus rather than Jesus being a prophet. If Jesus was a prophet it can be, but the divinity of Jesus is already going against the idea of the Abrahamic Faith the unity of the Almighty God. The Lord of the Universe. I feel that why Jews dont accept Jesus has mainly to do with Christians, because they claim that Jesus is divine and co-equal with God which is a great blasphemy of the higest order

That's all true... but we also have reason to believe he was a false prophet.

For 1, the sign of Jonah.
2. When he looked at the temple and its surrounding buildings and said "these will all be destroyed so that one brick shall not be left standing on top of another"
3. [FONT=&quot]“For the Son of Man [i.e. Jesus] is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each one according to his deeds. I assure you [i.e. swear to you] that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man [Jesus] come as King.”[/FONT]


There are others... but this is a start.

 

[Poisonshady313]

exactly Jesus was not condeming all the tribe of israel, remeember he was also from the tribe of israel, I am more suprised by the divinity of Jesus rather than Jesus being a prophet. If Jesus was a prophet it can be, but the divinity of Jesus is already going against the idea of the Abrahamic Faith the unity of the Almighty God. The Lord of the Universe. I feel that why Jews dont accept Jesus has mainly to do with Christians, because they claim that Jesus is divine and co-equal with God which is a great blasphemy of the higest order

Perhaps you can take a look at and weigh in on the thread I created entitled "Regarding Jesus in Islam".

 

[emiliano]

I don’t know is it that you get mixed up, the prophet Ezekiel (who was also killed as other prophets were ) says “So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand” this clearly refers to the religious leaders of that time, their priesthood “and cause them to cease from feeding the flock” no longer the shepherds “I will deliver My flock from their mouth, and they will not be food to devour” this I is God Himself. And God is a spirit, what is been prophesied here is that God Himself was going to shepherd His flock. The Israelites went to exile and God did tabernacle Himself in a man, the son of man Jesus and the ancients people beheld the glory of God. That’s in essence what the Apostle John (one of the closest to Jesus) wrote in his Gospel. The reasons for Jews non-acceptance of Jesus is that God blinded them, this is how Joh 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them" I believe that only God converts people, He calls them and they come, those that are His.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

 

[UnityNow101]

Look around you. If you see three Gods, than it is true. If you see none, than question everything that you have been taught regarding God. Do some seeking on your own without the silly books. If your belief cannot stand without a book and a degree in Theology, than it is probably wrong.

 

[emiliano]

Look around you. If you see three Gods, than it is true. If you see none, than question everything that you have been taught regarding God. Do some seeking on your own without the silly books. If your belief cannot stand without a book and a degree in Theology, than it is probably wrong.

God is a Spirit. He says so in the Good Book, Joh 4:24 God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.
And the gospels of Jesus power onto Salvation. I love the Bible, it says it so clear! Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I don’t know is it that you get mixed up, the prophet Ezekiel (who was also killed as other prophets were ) says “So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand” this clearly refers to the religious leaders of that time, their priesthood “and cause them to cease from feeding the flock” no longer the shepherds “I will deliver My flock from their mouth, and they will not be food to devour” this I is God Himself. And God is a spirit, what is been prophesied here is that God Himself was going to shepherd His flock. The Israelites went to exile and God did tabernacle Himself in a man, the son of man Jesus and the ancients people beheld the glory of God. That’s in essence what the Apostle John (one of the closest to Jesus) wrote in his Gospel. The reasons for Jews non-acceptance of Jesus is that God blinded them, this is how Joh 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them" I believe that only God converts people, He calls them and they come, those that are His.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

John is wrong.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I don’t know is it that you get mixed up, the prophet Ezekiel (who was also killed as other prophets were ) says “So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand” this clearly refers to the religious leaders of that time, their priesthood “and cause them to cease from feeding the flock” no longer the shepherds “I will deliver My flock from their mouth, and they will not be food to devour” this I is God Himself. And God is a spirit, what is been prophesied here is that God Himself was going to shepherd His flock. The Israelites went to exile and God did tabernacle Himself in a man, the son of man Jesus and the ancients people beheld the glory of God. That’s in essence what the Apostle John (one of the closest to Jesus) wrote in his Gospel. The reasons for Jews non-acceptance of Jesus is that God blinded them, this is how Joh 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them" I believe that only God converts people, He calls them and they come, those that are His.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

Regardless how you mis-interpret it just try wrestling with these for a moment. If Yeshua is God then surely after the ascension God should not be viewed as two distinct entities. Yeshua should be in heaven and referred to as God but as we can see this is not the case. All of the heavenly creation saw God and Yeshua (The Lamb) to be totally separate. It's amazing how it keeps getting swept under the rug here.

Revelation 1:1-2
1 This is a revelation from Yeshua the Messiah, which God gave him concerning the events that will happen soon. An angel was sent to God's servant John so that John could share the revelation with God's other servants.


2 John faithfully reported the word of God and the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah--everything he saw.


Rev. 3:12
All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write my God's name on them, and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And they will have my new name inscribed upon them.

The verses above are strictly related to Yeshua (The Lamb). The second one is where he explicitly informs John he has a god.

The verses below deal with God and as you can see the one sitting on the throne being praised is God and the one who steps forward takes the scroll from God. Who is the one that steps forward? Yep, you guessed it...it was Yeshua (The Lamb). It is not logical that God would take something from himself that he already possessed. Additionally, God's creation ask... "Who is worthy of opening the seals".....Now you'll see that right before that question his creation praises him and tells him he's "worthy to receive glory, power and honor"....Now why would God be worthy of all of that but then be asked by his creation..who is worthy to open the seals? Remember now that the scroll is in God's possession. Surely if he's worthy of all that then he should be worthy of opening a mere seven seals on a scroll that he probably sealed himself.


Revelation 4:2 and 9-11
2 And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it!

9 Whenever the living beings give glory and honor and thanks to the one sitting on the throne, the one who lives forever and ever,

10 the twenty-four elders fall down and worship the one who lives forever and ever. And they lay their crowns before the throne and say,

11 "You are worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power. For you created everything, and it is for your pleasure that they exist and were created."


Now remember God in verse 4:11 above? God (IS) worthy so let's move a little forward;

Revelation 5:1-4

1 And I saw a scroll in the right hand of the one who was sitting on the throne. There was writing on the inside and the outside of the scroll, and it was sealed with seven seals.

Remember verse 4:2 above? God is sitting on the throne.



2 And I saw a strong angel, who shouted with a loud voice: "Who is worthy to break the seals on this scroll and unroll it?

Remember verse 4:11 above? God is worthy...so out of respect none of his creation would dare question his worthiness to open something that he had in his possession that he most likely sealed himself. Remember, he is omnipotent/omniscient.



3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll and read it.

Surely John thought God was capable of accomplishing this task? The scroll was not for God to open but some one other than God who was worthy was to open the seals.


4 Then I wept because no one could be found who was worthy to open the scroll and read it.

God had the scroll in his hand. Surely there was no need of this if everyone knew he was worthy. Again, that's because he was entrusting some one else worthy enough to open the seals. Some one other than himself.



5 But one of the twenty-four elders said to me, "Stop weeping! Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David's throne, has conquered. He is worthy to open the scroll and break its seven seals."

As you can clearly see, a reference to some one else is mentioned worthy of opening the seals......not the one on the throne (God).

Wait, wait....it gets better......;

Revelation 5:7

7 He stepped forward and took the scroll from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne.

Remember Rev. 4:2 above? God is the one the throne and in Rev. 5:7 "The Lamb" is the one who comes forward and takes the scroll from the hand of his god. Also note that (The Lamb) was not sitting on the throne. He was in the crowd with the rest of God's creation.

So I must state the "obvious" and repeat myself......Yeshua is not God.

 

[TempleZionBoy-Rom:10:3]

I do not believe that Jesus was in the begining.The WORD was in the begining with GOD and the WORD was GOD. All "Word" is, is the expression of a thought. All things were created as GOD spoke his WORD. The WORD is the power of GOD. Jesus is the power of GOD made flesh. Isaiah 53:1 says "Who has believed our report,and to whom is THE ARM(power) OF THE LORD REVEALED"

 

[Poisonshady313]

I do not believe that Jesus was in the begining.The WORD was in the begining with GOD and the WORD was GOD. All "Word" is, is the expression of a thought. All things were created as GOD spoke his WORD. The WORD is the power of GOD. Jesus is the power of GOD made flesh. Isaiah 53:1 says "Who has believed our report,and to whom is THE ARM(power) OF THE LORD REVEALED"

I'm not even going to get into the "Isaiah 53 is not about Jesus" argument right now...

The power of the Lord is His hand, not His arm.

When God took Israel out of the land of Egypt, it was with a STRONG HAND and an oustretched arm. When Egypt saw the plagues and understood it was more than just magic tricks, they said "this is the finger of God".

 

[TempleZionBoi-Rom.10:3]

I'm not even going to get into the "Isaiah 53 is not about Jesus" argument right now...

The power of the Lord is His hand, not His arm.

When God took Israel out of the land of Egypt, it was with a STRONG HAND and an oustretched arm. When Egypt saw the plagues and understood it was more than just magic tricks, they said "this is the finger of God".

If you believe the power of the lord is his hand not his arm,why reference to mention of the finger being his power?

 

[TempleZionBoi-Rom.10:3]

how is it the"Finger" and the "Hand" but not the "Arm?