Jesus is God?

[vijeno]

Assuming that god is an 1. omniscient, 2. omnipresent, 3. omnipotent, and 4. sinless being, let's state a few biblical facts:

1. Jesus did not know the exact day of the coming of the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 24:36)
2. Jesus was obviously only at one place at one time
3. Jesus was unable to perform miracles in his hometown (Mark 6:4-5)
4. Jesus broke the Sabbath and a few other laws

Therefore, Jesus was not god. All the theology of "yeah but he was somewhat human and somewhat divine, depending on what is necessary to save the integrity of the bible" strikes me as extremely dishonest and totally unnatural.

 

[logician]

I know that there are a good many christians out their who believe that those who follow the jewish religion need to be saved because they do not worship Jesus. So, quick question:

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

Many religions have man-gods, are you saying Jesus was a man-god? If so, what makes him so special?

 

[super.girl]

no he not a god

he just a prophet

 

[URAVIP2ME]

no he not a god
he just a prophet

According to Scripture, Jesus is titled Mighty God but No where is Jesus called Almighty God.

God is a title and even Satan is called a god.
Satan is the god of this world of badness according to 2 Corinthians 4v4.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Assuming that god is an 1. omniscient, 2. omnipresent, 3. omnipotent, and 4. sinless being, let's state a few biblical facts:
1. Jesus did not know the exact day of the coming of the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 24:36)
2. Jesus was obviously only at one place at one time
3. Jesus was unable to perform miracles in his hometown (Mark 6:4-5)
4. Jesus broke the Sabbath and a few other laws
.

Jesus is not God [Col1vs15,16; Rev 3v14 b]
That is why Jesus does not know the exact day.

Jesus was able to preform miracles but not to do them for a sideshow event.

Jesus, being a Jew under the Law observed the Sabbath as Scripture directed.
Matthew 15vs3,6; 23vs2-4; Mark 2v27.
Jesus did Not observe the Sabbath as the false Pharisees directed.
The Pharisees were breaking the Mosaic law by their own tradition over Scripture. They were trying to enforce their own letter of the law overlooking the spirit of the actual law.
Mark 12v12

 

[vijeno]

Jesus is not God [Col1vs15,16; Rev 3v14 b]
That is why Jesus does not know the exact day.

Jesus was able to preform miracles but not to do them for a sideshow event.

What's your point? You seem to say that Jesus was not god, but then you are trying to defend him in some way.

It is not what scripture says in Mark 6:5. It says clearly that he could not perform any miracles, except heal a few sick people - full stop. No word about a sideshow event. And quite apart from that, even if he wasn't able to perform for a sideshow event, that means that he was not able to perform certain acts. Regardless of what act or how little that act is, if he was not able to perform it, that means that he was not god.

Jesus did Not observe the Sabbath as the false Pharisees directed.

How do you know they were false?

The Pharisees were breaking the Mosaic law by their own tradition over Scripture. They were trying to enforce their own letter of the law overlooking the spirit of the actual law.
Mark 12v12

They were interpreting scripture - just as you are doing now, only with infinitely more attention to detail.

 

[rusra02]

I know that there are a good many christians out their who believe that those who follow the jewish religion need to be saved because they do not worship Jesus. So, quick question:

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

I'm coming to the thread late, but no, Jesus is not YHWH or Jehovah. Jesus is not almighty God, but as he consistently identified himself, the Son of God. (John 3:16)

 

[vijeno]

Coming to think of it... whatever is that meant to mean or imply? Or how is it supposed to work?

 

[daniel1948]

Jesus is the son of god.forever . But he is also the word of god without a begining .he is the one mosses spoke to and saw.he has been givin a name above every name above the name of jehovah.he became the son of god in a point of time heb 1:5 God the father declaring him to be his son through miracules. that no man could do.the payment for sin is death Rom:6:23 He had to die for sin to make the payment for us. He had no inherited sin borne by all of mankind from adams trannsgression sin is inherrited from the man not the woman. Eve did not sin in the garden of eden but was made a sinner when adam broke Gods commandment .it was givin only to adam Gen 2:16 Eve ate first nothing happened sin and death did not enter the world till adam ate Rom 5:12they died that day there was no death in the world till then .What they lost was eternal life.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What's your point? You seem to say that Jesus was not god, but then you are trying to defend him in some way.
It is not what scripture says in Mark 6:5. It says clearly that he could not perform any miracles, except heal a few sick people - full stop. No word about a sideshow event. And quite apart from that, even if he wasn't able to perform for a sideshow event, that means that he was not able to perform certain acts. Regardless of what act or how little that act is, if he was not able to perform it, that means that he was not god.
How do you know they were false?
They were interpreting scripture - just as you are doing now, only with infinitely more attention to detail.

First of all, Jesus gave all credit to God for his abilities.
The reason Jesus could do no mighty work..... was not because he was not capable, but Jesus would not do powerful works because as verse 6 says of their 'unbelief'.

Didn't Jesus believe the Pharisees were false teachers?
Not only did Jesus pronounce many 'woes' against them in the 23rd chapter of Matthew please notice his reasons why he stated those 'woes'.

Those religious leaders were teaching Not Scripture but man-made tradition or customs outside of Scripture according to Mark 7v7,13; Matthew 15v9.
They were interpreting their own oral laws outside of the written Mosaic law.
They used, Not God's opinion, but used their own opinion and shoved it into the mouth of God as if they were some kind of holy ventriloquist. They did not listen or obey the written Mosaic law.
Where can anyone show that those religious leaders were right and Jesus was wrong?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus is the son of god.forever . But he is also the word of god without a begining .he is the one mosses spoke to and saw.he has been givin a name above every name above the name of jehovah.he became the son of god in a point of time heb 1:5 God the father declaring him to be his son through miracules. that no man could do.the payment for sin is death Rom:6:23 He had to die for sin to make the payment for us. He had no inherited sin borne by all of mankind from adams trannsgression sin is inherrited from the man not the woman. Eve did not sin in the garden of eden but was made a sinner when adam broke Gods commandment .it was givin only to adam Gen 2:16 Eve ate first nothing happened sin and death did not enter the world till adam ate Rom 5:12they died that day there was no death in the world till then .What they lost was eternal life.

Why do you say Jesus is without a beginning? Doesn't Revelation 3v14 b clearly state that according to Jesus that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God?

Only God has no beginning. Psalm 90v2. Only God was before the beginning.
Jesus was not before the beginning.

Eve sinned. Perfect people like Eve do not sin by mistake as imperfect people like us can sin. Even if Adam had not sinned, Eve would have still died. Sin would not have entered the world of future mankind if Adam obeyed, and either Eve would have continued to live out within the thousand year time frame, or God would have given Adam another wife at that point in time.
Sinners Adam and Eve both died in that thousand-year day or time frame.

 

[daniel1948]

I know that there are a good many christians out their who believe that those who follow the jewish religion need to be saved because they do not worship Jesus. So, quick question:

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

Yes but first God his Father testified that Jesus is his Son by miracules John:1:2 A Man of the Pharisesees ,came two Jesus by night and said unto him Rabbi we Know that thou art A teacher come from God for no Man can do these Miracules that thou doest except God be with him. note Nicodemus did not aknowledge him to be the son of God. John5:9-10 If we receive the witness of men the witness of God is greater for this is the witness of God which He hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in Himself: he that believeth not God has made him a liar; because he believeth not the record God gave of his Son...John 4:36-37 But i have greater witness than that of John for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that i do bear witness of me that the Father hath sent me.. Johns witness..John1:34 And i saw and bear record that this is the son of God John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did they had no sin .But now have they both hated me and my Father John 5:37 And the Father himself hath borne witness of me.Ye have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his shape...Problem moses spoke to god and saw his shape exodus 33:22 But it was not the Father it was his word Jesus John 1:1 IN the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with god and the Word was God John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh.And dwelt among us and we beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father.In Phillipians 4:5-12 It says Jesus who was equal with God took a position as a servant and became a man And humbled himself to die on the cross at a point in time he became Gods Son Heb1:5 A son is not grater than his Father again a position he took As a Son. You as a Jew should Know the great I am who sent Mosses two free his people Exodus 3:14 John 8:58 truly I say unto you before Abraham was I am. And they picked up stones to stone him many more scriptures show him as God God always sent his word to exspress his will micah 5:2 your King but thou beth-lehem Ephratah though thou be little among the thousands of Judah yet out of thee shall he come fourth unto me who is to be ruler in Israel Whos goings fourth have been from of old from everlasting. if your Bible says angent days crap toss it get a new one much more to be said millions died as they tried to wipe out christianity they had witnessed Gods miracules through Jesus And believed he is gods son there blood is testimony to there faith they would not deny him even at the exspense of losing there lives even though his enemys hated him they could not deny his works foolishness to many witnesses How about you

 

[daniel1948]

Why do you say Jesus is without a beginning? Doesn't Revelation 3v14 b clearly state that according to Jesus that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God?

Only God has no beginning. Psalm 90v2. Only God was before the beginning.
Jesus was not before the beginning.

Eve sinned. Perfect people like Eve do not sin by mistake as imperfect people like us can sin. Even if Adam had not sinned, Eve would have still died. Sin would not have entered the world of future mankind if Adam obeyed, and either Eve would have continued to live out within the thousand year time frame, or God would have given Adam another wife at that point in time.
Sinners Adam and Eve both died in that thousand-year day or time frame.

Death did not enter the world when eve ate nor sin eve ate first but when adam sinned it says by the man sin entered the world and death by sin so death passed upon all men Eve was not under the law God gave to Adam Gen2:16-17 Was only two the man And the Lord God commanded the man saying. of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat. But of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat of it for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die you you you I dont care what eve says if the woman sinned than Jesus would have been born with sin inherited from his mother you would have no hope eve was one hundred percent Adam being made from him she did not sin but was made a sinner so were you Adam sinned by transgressing against gods commandment the Law Rom4:15Because the Law worketh wrath for where no Law is there is no Transgression 1John Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law for sin is the transgression of the Law. Rom 5:13 For untill the law sin was in the World but sin is not imputed when there is no law your not under old law but you are under the Law of 1Jhon 3:23 And this is his Commandment that you believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ And love one another as he gave commandment as far as Jesus being the first born of every creature he was the first one to rise in the ressurection till then all were dead in Adam first born from the dead first born from the dead

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Eve was under the law or she would still be alive today.
Only sinners die. Eve died.
Since Eve ate first, then Adam was still sinless.
The balance of the whole human family then rested on Adam's decision to listen to God or disobey God. If it had been the reverse then everything would have rested on Eve.

According to Acts 24v15 there is going to be [future] a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. Jesus was the first to rise when God resurrected Jesus to heavenly life.
Then, those that are called to heavenly life. [Rev 5vs9,10;20v6] .
Before the earthly resurrection takes place during Jesus 1000-year reign over earth,
the living sheep-like people of Matthew [25vs31,32,46] that are alive on earth can remain alive and keep on living right into the start of Jesus millennial reign before the promise to Abraham is fulfilled.- Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18.
Since the 'last will be first', then the general resurrection order will go from the present to back in time to Abel.

 

[lockyfan]

Death did not enter the world when eve ate nor sin eve ate first but when adam sinned it says by the man sin entered the world and death by sin so death passed upon all men Eve was not under the law God gave to Adam Gen2:16-17 Was only two the man And the Lord God commanded the man saying. of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat. But of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat of it for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die you you you I dont care what eve says if the woman sinned than Jesus would have been born with sin inherited from his mother you would have no hope eve was one hundred percent Adam being made from him she did not sin but was made a sinner so were you Adam sinned by transgressing against gods commandment the Law Rom4:15Because the Law worketh wrath for where no Law is there is no Transgression 1John Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law for sin is the transgression of the Law. Rom 5:13 For untill the law sin was in the World but sin is not imputed when there is no law your not under old law but you are under the Law of 1Jhon 3:23 And this is his Commandment that you believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ And love one another as he gave commandment as far as Jesus being the first born of every creature he was the first one to rise in the ressurection till then all were dead in Adam first born from the dead first born from the dead

Yes Adam was the one sin entered into the world through, We completely agree with that 100%, but Man is the head of Woman in the arrangement of things

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.

So Adam was Eve's head in the arrangement of things. It was on his head to teach her the laws of god for the race of man to follow.

And in Genesis 3:2-3 when Eve was tempted by Satan, she reiterated the commandment given to Adam.
At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. 3 But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” Which is almost identical to the one given to Adam in Genesis 2:16.

So no sin did not enter the world through Eve, but through Adam, but it was at Satans instigation.

Also Getting back on Topic of Jesus being God, how can he be God when in the above quoted scripture of 1 Corinthians 11:3 he is in SUBJECTION to God?

So how can God be in Subjection to God? It jst does not make any sense

 

[budha3]

There is a reason why God is sometimes referred to as "The One and the Many" Jesus was one person, not many. The Lord thy God is One, but also many. The many is us; are we not His children? Didn't we physically come from our father first? We come from God's light, and we return to it when we die. Some will remain in the light, while others will have to return. Revelations 3:16 "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." An analogy would be if our current cars were all fully electric, we would have to stop by a gas station to get recharged. Dying is only taking a break to get recharged for the next journey. If your entire life was lived and dedicated to service to others you will no longer have to return. And this is why Jesus does not have to come back here; trust me, he surely wouldn't volunteer. I am not anti-life, because to me living here or in heaven is a journey, and I'm enjoying the ride; I love life and learning. But I know that the reason why we suffer is because we are encased in a physical body. I also would be okay if didn't have to come back here.

 

[lockyfan]

There is a reason why God is sometimes referred to as "The One and the Many" Jesus was one person, not many. The Lord thy God is One, but also many. The many is us; are we not His children? Didn't we physically come from our father first? We come from God's light, and we return to it when we die. Some will remain in the light, while others will have to return. Revelations 3:16 "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." An analogy would be if our current cars were all fully electric, we would have to stop by a gas station to get recharged. Dying is only taking a break to get recharged for the next journey. If your entire life was lived and dedicated to service to others you will no longer have to return. And this is why Jesus does not have to come back here; trust me, he surely wouldn't volunteer. I am not anti-life, because to me living here or in heaven is a journey, and I'm enjoying the ride; I love life and learning. But I know that the reason why we suffer is because we are encased in a physical body. I also would be okay if didn't have to come back here.

So the fact that the bible talks about A resurrection back to the EARTH of the righteous and unrighteous means nothing to you?

The bible says that we "stay in Gods Memory" not that we actually physically live in heaven with him

Some do get to, but this provision only came after Christ came to the earth.

So if Jesus was God, why would he allow himself to leave heaven, die (thus not exist) and then be resurrected again?

It Makes no sense.

 

[Muffled]

So the fact that the bible talks about A resurrection back to the EARTH of the righteous and unrighteous means nothing to you?

The bible says that we "stay in Gods Memory" not that we actually physically live in heaven with him

Some do get to, but this provision only came after Christ came to the earth.

So if Jesus was God, why would he allow himself to leave heaven, die (thus not exist) and then be resurrected again?

It Makes no sense.

First of all, God is not limited to Heaven but is omnipresent. Second, He gave His reason "so that all men would be drawn to Him." Third, God wanted to thwart the sadducees who said there was no resurrection. Fourth, God nor any person ceases to exist at death but continue on in a spiritual state. Fifth, God wished to introduce the concept of His spirit in control of believers who wished to be free from sin.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If a person continues to exist at death, then where is Adam?

If a person continues to exist at death, then why does Ecclesiastes 9v5 say the dead know not anything?

If a person continues to exist at death, then why does Ezekiel 18 vs4,20 say the soul that sins dies?

If a person continues to exist at death, why did the Psalmist liken death to being asleep?
[Psalm 6v5;13v3;115v17;146v4]

If a person continues to exist at death, then where was Jesus after he died and before God resurrected Jesus?
[Acts 2vs27,31]

Why would Jesus believe the dead are in a state of deep sleep if they are in existence?
[John 11vs11-14]

What would be the need for a resurrection if a person exists at death ?
[Daniel 12vs2,13]

Doesn't one have to first be resurrected to heaven or earth to exist in a spiritual state?
Or, in other words, have a 'spiritual state of mind' whether in a physical or spirit body?

Adam was spiritual before he sinned. After Adam sinned he was not spiritual.
Satan was spiritual before he sinned. After Satan sinned he was not spiritual.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am not anti-life, because to me living here or in heaven is a journey, and I'm enjoying the ride; I love life and learning. But I know that the reason why we suffer is because we are encased in a physical body. I also would be okay if didn't have to come back here.

Me too, living here on earth or heaven is a journey not a destination,
but an on-going joy.
I too love life and learning.
Isaiah [11v9] wrote about the future time when the earth will be filled with the knowledge [learning] of God [YHWH].
Always learning new things and increasing in knowledge.

Before Adam sinned did Adam suffer because he was encased in a physical or human body? Since Adam was made from the dust of the earth Adam did not have to come back here from anywhere. Angelic creation according to Scripture was already created and in existence.

If Adam had Not sinned Adam would have retained his perfect healthy human body and mind and lived forever on earth.

Once God created the spirit world [angelic creation] then, 'God&Son' expanded, so to speak, the family business of creation to include a material or physical realm in addition to the heavenly realm.

Since sin causes death and not a physical body,
then even sinning angels will die or be destroyed.
Just as Hebrews [2v14b] brings to our attention that Jesus will destroy Satan. All wicked will be destroyed or annihilated forever.
[Psalm 92v7;37vs11,29,38; Proverbs 2vs21,22]

Also, as far as coming back [aka resurrection], those who are alive, still living on earth at the time of Jesus 'glory' or his taking action, the ones placed at Jesus right hand of favor, so to speak, can remain alive on earth and keep living here right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth having the prospect in view of everlasting life right here on a paradisaic earth without ever having to experience death.
[Matt 25vs31,32,46]