Jesus is not God

[TransmutingSoul]

The question is: what were the true sources of information from which Baha'Ullah obtained his supposed "knowledge"? From the occult sciences of paganism? From ancient Greek philosophies? From treatises on occult sciences and witchcraft?

From God is the obvious answer, since that is where Baha'u'llah offered that knowledge came from. Baha'u'llah was not scooled in religious study, the knowledge was innate, given of God.

This is also How Jesus got the New Testament, but the Jews are also yet to embrace those Gospels, but I see they will indeed embrace Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

BahaUllah is just a 19th century guy, sorry. He's not even Bible-minded as clearly seen before.

He does not teach about Satan the Devil and all the effort he is doing to lie humans so they cann't know the truth.
He teaches about certain "kingdom" that other humans by themselves will bring to the planet, not about the Kingdom of Jesus.
BahaUllah does not know anything about everlasting life on earth.
He doesn't teach about what was the reason why sin and death appeared on the human scene.
BahaUllah doesn't teach about the God of Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jesus and the real Christians'.

BahaUllah is not a Christian to teach us anything. He's just the leader of the Bahais, and that's all about him.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

i

interesting how you use the word ''we'' .......... we are not angels .we are flesh & blood

I will always use we, as I see we are One human race, all born of the Human Spirit, all given a capacity of a rational mind to enable us to know and love God.

Why would we not help each other do this?

Only this world would keep us back from embracing Christ and becoming One in practice of what the Holy Spirit has revealed unto us.

We are the body of humanity, albeit a very sick body needing to accept an elixir.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

BahaUllah is just a 19th century guy, sorry. He's not even Bible-minded as clearly seen before.

He does not teach about Satan the Devil and all the effort he is doing to lie humans so they cann't know the truth.
He teaches about certain "kingdom" that other humans by themselves will bring to the planet, not about the Kingdom of Jesus.
BahaUllah does not know anything about everlasting life on earth.
He doesn't teach about what was the reason why sin and death appeared on the human scene.
BahaUllah doesn't teach about the God of Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jesus and the real Christians'.

BahaUllah is not a Christian to teach us anything. He's just the leader of the Bahais, and that's all about him.

Too far off topic.

Back to Jesus, who was Annointed of God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

i

interesting how you use the word ''we'' .......... we are not angels .we are flesh & blood

In addition we can be angles, more than flesh and blood, born again into the Holy Spirit, we can become Angles, by that birth and our submission to God.

Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

Too far off topic.

Back to Jesus, who was Annointed of God.

Regards Tony

Let me tell you what is "too far off topic" in a BIBLICAL DEBATES subforum: BahaUllah's writings.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Let me tell you what is "too far off topic" in a BIBLICAL DEBATES subforum: BahaUllah's writings.

Only in some.peoples frames of reference, as I see the Quran is also applicable, as it also gives explanations on Biblical topics.

All the best, Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

If so, take this.

BahaUllah is just a 19th century guy, sorry. He's not even Bible-minded as clearly seen before.

He does not teach about Satan the Devil and all the effort he is doing to lie humans so they cann't know the truth.
He teaches about certain "kingdom" that other humans by themselves will bring to the planet, not about the Kingdom of Jesus.
BahaUllah does not know anything about everlasting life on earth.
He doesn't teach about what was the reason why sin and death appeared on the human scene.
BahaUllah doesn't teach about the God of Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jesus and the real Christians'.

BahaUllah is not a Christian to teach us anything. He's just the leader of the Bahais, and that's all about him.

 

[Eli G]

Do you know why the wisdom of the world apart from Jehovah is useless to a true Christian?

It is because no knowledge in the world can give eternal life to a human being apart from the Creator. That is the same reason why no wise man in the world can ever compare to Jesus.

Jesus is the only one who offered a ransom for humanity separated from the family of God, so apart from him, no one can ever be reconciled with the real source of life and light.

BahaUllah cannot nullify the teachings of Jesus. If he tries, he becomes an enemy of life.

A human without the knowledge of the world can live forever, because Jesus' sacrifice can reconcile him with the Creator as a free gift by his faith on it. A wise man of the world without believing in the exclusive role of Jesus can never be saved from sin and death.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Rev. 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.

Mourning and outcry and pain will not be anymore, but not because there will be no more physical death.
Physical death will always exist because the human body was created as mortal.

Sorry, I do not know the Bible well enough to discuss this intelligently.

As I have explained to @URAVIP2ME many, many times, Isaiah 35 is not about a coming beautiful paradisaical world.
It is about what we will see after the return of Christ.

Isaiah prophesied that the Plain of Sharon and the holy mountain, Carmel, would both be centers for the light and presence of the ‘Glory of the Lord’ in the last days. All these prophecies were fulfilled after Christ returned with a new name which I believe was Baha'u'llah.

Isaiah 35 King James Version (KJV)

35 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. 2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

Above Haifa, Israel, stands Mt. Carmel, proclaiming the Glory of the Lord has come.

You need to read Psalm 72:16 in context in order to understand what it means.
This chapter is referring to a man (he) who will do all these things.

When he comes there shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.

2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.

12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.
13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.
14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.
16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

I believe that the he in this chapter is the messiah of the latter days that the Jews have so long awaited.
Psalm 72:16 means that there will be abundant food so there will be no more starvation after he comes and ushers in a new age in which is the kingdom of God will be established on earth, which is the new earth referred to in the Book of Revelation.

Humans are going to have to cause these beneficial things to happen with God's assistance and guidance.

The issue here is that there is no reason to believe that people are going to be raised from their graves to live on Earth forever because that belief is not supported by the Bible.

Yes, the human body was created and is mortal just as Adam was created mortal - Gen. 2:17
Adam could live forever on Earth as long as he obeyed God's Law
Earth was not meant to be a stepping stone to anywhere else
If the dead are alive there would be No need for a resurrection because the living do Not need a resurrection
Support for the meek inheriting ( living forever on Earth ) is found in Jesus' words at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
ALL the resurrections Jesus performed where happy-and-healthy 'physical resurrections'
Heaven is only promised to some, like the people of Luke 22:28-30 they are the saints/holy ones of Daniel 7:18
There is No teaching that the figurative 'sheep' at Jesus' coming Glory Time of Matthew 25:31-34,37 have to die
There is No death in Heaven. Death is an earthly problem. Jesus gets rid of enemy death -> 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[Trailblazer]

Kind of... but not totally.

Saying that Jesus is "a manifestation of God" is more Trinitarian than what you think.

So, what do you believe Jesus is, a prophet just like the other prophets in the Bible?

At the moment Bahais say that there are many other "manifestations of God", they go even further than Trinitarians.

Of course.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is the only one who offered a ransom for humanity separated from the family of God, so apart from him, no one can ever be reconciled with the real source of life and light.

That is true, Jesus is the only one who offered a ransom for humanity. Baha'u'llah wrote that and it's in Gleanings.
That is one reason that Baha'is are required to believe in Jesus, although that is not the only reason.

BahaUllah cannot nullify the teachings of Jesus. If he tries, he becomes an enemy of life.

Baha'u'llah promoted and reminded us of the teachings of Jesus, He did not nullify any of them.

 

[Eli G]

what do you believe Jesus is...?

This is what I believe about Jesus:

Matt. 16:13 When he had come into the region of Caes·a·reʹa Phi·lipʹpi, Jesus asked his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·liʹjah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.

1 John 4:14 ... we ourselves have seen and are bearing witness that the Father has sent his Son as savior of the world. 15 Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If so, take this.

This reply is a good answer to this OP, that Jesus is not God, as your observations about Baha'u'llah were just as applicable to Jesus.

Jesus is not a "(Insert any Faith or people Christains have taught by force or no force)" to teach us anything. He's just the leader of the Christians, and that's all about him.

Luckily we know Jesus was an Annointed One, and that we would spread that message not by force, but by love and counsel, all the while knowing that faith is not something to be forced on to others, that faith is a God given choice.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is what I believe about Jesus:

Matt. 16:13 When he had come into the region of Caes·a·reʹa Phi·lipʹpi, Jesus asked his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·liʹjah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.

1 John 4:14 ... we ourselves have seen and are bearing witness that the Father has sent his Son as savior of the world. 15 Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God.

That is also what I beleive about Jesus, in a different frame of reference.

So we are One in that declarationof the divinity of Jesus Christ. We have a unity in our diversity.

That does not mean we can not have a conflict of opinions, that can be done in a healthy way.

Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

Baha'u'llah promoted and reminded us of the teachings of Jesus, He did not nullify any of them.

I don't think so. Some examples:

BahaUllah is just a 19th century guy, sorry. He's not even Bible-minded as clearly seen before.

He does not teach about Satan the Devil and all the effort he is doing to lie humans so they cann't know the truth.
He teaches about certain "kingdom" that other humans by themselves will bring to the planet, not about the Kingdom of Jesus.
BahaUllah does not know anything about everlasting life on earth.
He doesn't teach about what was the reason why sin and death appeared on the human scene.
BahaUllah doesn't teach about the God of Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jesus and the real Christians'.

BahaUllah is not a Christian to teach us anything. He's just the leader of the Bahais, and that's all about him.

There must be many others, since BahaUllah accepted many religious theories of supposed "enlightened" people who did not worship Jehovah, but other gods. Once he did that, he became part of the world.

No one can have "divine" enlightenment if he cannot even be a depository of God's holy spirit. The world does not know nor can it receive God's spirit, and Bahaullah does not know the difference between belonging to God and belonging to the world.

Joh 14:15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.

Jesus' teachings about the world and how his disciples are separated from it are clear in the Bible.

Furthermore, you have made sufficiently explicit statements about your distrust and non-acceptance of Biblical teachings as true. You even went so far as to say that BahaUllah did not read from any Biblical version, because he supposedly knew about Jesus "by divine revelation" ... something that no Bahai has yet clearly explained: how are BahaUllah's writings "divine revelation" other than because someone says so.

 

[Trailblazer]

Death is an earthly problem. Jesus gets rid of enemy death -> 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

Death is not our enemy.

23. SON OF THE SUPREME!
To the eternal I call thee, yet thou dost seek that which perisheth. What hath made thee turn away from Our desire and seek thine own?

32. O SON OF THE SUPREME!
I have made death a messenger of joy to thee. Wherefore dost thou grieve? I made the light to shed on thee its splendor. Why dost thou veil thyself therefrom?

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh

Jesus did not get rid of physical death.
Jesus got rid of spiritual death by offering eternal life, which, according to the Bible, is knowing the only true God and knowing Jesus.
Whoever knows and believes in Jesus will have eternal life, which is nearness to God.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

 

[Eli G]

... we are One in that declarationof the divinity of Jesus Christ. We have a unity in our diversity.

...Regards Tony

No, we are not, sorry to awake you up.

Bahais are just another part of the religious system of the world like any other religion.

I belong to a group that is separated from the world, although we still live within it. I am a Christian Jehovah's witness and you do not belong to my people.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you know why the wisdom of the world apart from Jehovah is useless to a true Christian?

It is because no knowledge in the world can give eternal life to a human being apart from the Creator. That is the same reason why no wise man in the world can ever compare to Jesus.

Jesus is the only one who offered a ransom for humanity separated from the family of God, so apart from him, no one can ever be reconciled with the real source of life and light.

BahaUllah cannot nullify the teachings of Jesus. If he tries, he becomes an enemy of life.

A human without the knowledge of the world can live forever, because Jesus' sacrifice can reconcile him with the Creator as a free gift by his faith on it. A wise man of the world without believing in the exclusive role of Jesus can never be saved from sin and death.

One of my Best friends is a JW, we lived next door to each other. I assisted him in building the JW church.

He helped me when he could, as I built my house and the Baha'i Centre. As you know he could not help with the Baha'i centre.

We had many a discussion about faith, God and Jesus. I always offered, we are so close, and yet at the same time, a mile apart.

So we can live together in peace, in the Love of God, both having different view of that Divinity.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I belong to a group that is separated from the world, although we still live within it.

Then it is rather ironic that a teaching of the JW church is that you will live forever on earth.
You look forward to living in this world forever because you love it and you believe in a future paradise on earth.

What JWs believe about the afterlife is diametrically opposed to the teachings of Jesus.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.