Of course, I can live in peace with you, and I so much love you that I cann't less than telling you what I learnt from Jesus' teachings, so that what BahaUllah has somehow told you does not confuse you. That comes in the package: I am first a follower of Jesus and the rest of my life after that.
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Jesus is not God
- Thread starter andy
- Start date
Luckily my next door neighbour, also a JW would not say such things, even though I know he thought them.
I would offer one may think they are detached from the world, but I see that withdrawal as an attachment to a material life, thinking all others will be dead, when in reality we all.live in spirit, but in a relative state of mind.
Some minds like a rock, some like an eagle, someone like a perfect man, born in the image of God.
Regards Tony
You say that because you do not know all Jesus' teachings.
Matt. 11:11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.
That's why we offer free Bible studies to anyone who is more interested on Jesus' teachings.
Matt. 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
cataway
Well-Known Member
oh it will happen
Oh, yes, it is. And it will be destroyed.
1 Cor. 15:22 ... also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
Yes, though a person may die he will live again. Please notice 'as to when' at John 6:40,44
Yes, death is an enemy according to 1st Cortinthians 15:26; Death will go away according to Isaiah 25:8
Resurrection Day is: Jesus' coming 'Millennium-Long Day' of governing over Earth for 1000 years
The faithful 'sheep' at Jesus' coming Glory Time of separation - Matthew 25:31-34,37 - can gain everlasting life on Earth without dying
Righteous people will Not die that symbolic ' second death ' of Revelation 21:8
Second Death = meaning the 'wicked are destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; 135:40; 145:20; Proverbs 2:22
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I think so. Here are some examples of parallel verses.
Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
“Say: Deliver your souls, O people, from the bondage of self, and purify them from all attachment to anything besides Me. Remembrance of Me cleanseth all things from defilement, could ye but perceive it. Say: Were all created things to be entirely divested of the veil of worldly vanity and desire, the Hand of God would in this Day clothe them, one and all, with the robe “He doeth whatsoever He willeth in the kingdom of creation,” that thereby the sign of His sovereignty might be manifested in all things. Exalted then be He, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Almighty, the Supreme Protector, the All-Glorious, the Most Powerful.” Gleanings, pp. 294-295
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John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
“The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion.” Gleanings, pp. 328-329
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Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
“The peoples of the world are fast asleep. Were they to wake from their slumber, they would hasten with eagerness unto God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. They would cast away everything they possess, be it all the treasures of the earth, that their Lord may remember them to the extent of addressing to them but one word.” Gleanings, p. 137
“Place not thy reliance on thy treasures. Put thy whole confidence in the grace of God, thy Lord. Let Him be thy trust in whatever thou doest, and be of them that have submitted themselves to His Will. Let Him be thy helper and enrich thyself with His treasures, for with Him are the treasuries of the heavens and of the earth.” Gleanings, pp 234-235
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Matthew 7:24-27 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
“For every one of you his paramount duty is to choose for himself that on which no other may infringe and none usurp from him. Such a thing—and to this the Almighty is My witness—is the love of God, could ye but perceive it.
Build ye for yourselves such houses as the rain and floods can never destroy, which shall protect you from the changes and chances of this life. This is the instruction of Him Whom the world hath wronged and forsaken.” Gleanings, p. 261
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John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329
Baha'u'llah never accepted any religious theories of supposed "enlightened" people who did not worship God.
Baha'u'llah was a depository of God's holy spirit.
Given what Baha'u'llah wrote, to saying that Baha'u'llah does not know the difference between belonging to God and belonging to the world is laughable.
"Disencumber yourselves of all attachment to this world and the vanities thereof. Beware that ye approach them not, inasmuch as they prompt you to walk after your own lusts and covetous desires, and hinder you from entering the straight and glorious Path.” Gleanings, p. 276
“Dispute not with any one concerning the things of this world and its affairs, for God hath abandoned them to such as have set their affection upon them. Out of the whole world He hath chosen for Himself the hearts of men—hearts which the hosts of revelation and of utterance can subdue. Thus hath it been ordained by the Fingers of Bahá, upon the Tablet of God’s irrevocable decree, by the behest of Him Who is the Supreme Ordainer, the All-Knowing.” Gleanings, p.279
“Ere long the world and all that is therein shall be as a thing forgotten, and all honor shall belong to the loved ones of thy Lord, the All-Glorious, the Most Bountiful.” Gleanings, p. 306
“Wert thou to consider this world, and realize how fleeting are the things that pertain unto it, thou wouldst choose to tread no path except the path of service to the Cause of thy Lord. None would have the power to deter thee from celebrating His praise, though all men should arise to oppose thee.” Gleanings, p. 314
“The Most Great Name bearethMe witness! How sad if any man were, in this Day, to rest his heart on the transitory things of this world! Arise, and cling firmly to the Cause of God.Be most loving one to another. Burn away, wholly for the sake of the Well-Beloved, the veil of self with the flame of the undying Fire, and with faces joyous and beaming with light, associate with your neighbor.”Gleanings, p. 316
“The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot “fatten nor appease his hunger.” Gleanings, pp. 328-329
That helper and the spirit of truth was Baha'u'llah.
You are correct, but JWs are anything but detached from this world. They have set their affections on the world and they want to live in it forever.
How is the Bible "divine revelation" other than because someone says so?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Physical death will never be destroyed, but spiritual death will be destroyed.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
FYI, Baha'u'llah did not quote from the Bible, except on rare occasion.
I quoted from the Bible to show you that what Jesus said is similar to what Baha'u'llah wrote.
That is not what Jesus taught:
John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
Talking about the resurrection, Paul said:
1 Cor. 15:17 Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you remain in your sins. 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in death in union with Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are to be pitied more than anyone.
The resurrection of the dead is real; people who have passed away are brought back to life. That hope offers comfort to those who have lost family members in death, because if they are there in Christ's future kingdom when the earth has been cleansed, they will welcome them back.
Is. 26:19 “Your dead will live.
My corpses will rise up.
Awake and shout joyfully,
You residents in the dust!
For your dew is as the dew of the morning,
And the earth will let those powerless in death come to life.
... 25:8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces. The reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, For Jehovah himself has spoken it.
Hosea 13:14 From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; From death I will recover them. Where are your stings, O Death? Where is your destructiveness, O Grave? Compassion will be concealed from my eyes.
Mark 12:26 But concerning the dead being raised up, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account about the thornbush, that God said to him: ‘I am the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob’?
John 11:24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;
Acts 24:15 And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
1 Cor. 15:21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.
1 Thess. 4:14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus.
Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds.
Should I believe in BahaUllah instead of what the Bible says?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, the physical body will die and the person will live again in a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation
The Resurrection Body
35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.
42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
It is evident that Bahaullah is trying to reinterpret the Bible as he pleases. Following Bahaullah is dangerous.
Why should any Christian revise the teachings of Jesus Christ according to the parameters of the "spiritual leader" of the Bahais instead of doing just the contrary?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You can believe whatever you want to, and you can cherry-pick verses in the Bible to try to prove you are right.
I go with hat Paul said about the resurrection, which is simply a transformation of the physical body that perishes into a spiritual body that will live forever in the Kingdom of God, which is in heaven. What Paul said makes sense and it is the same as Baha'i teachings.
1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation
The Resurrection Body
35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.
42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
This is the choice of Faith. Not choosing faith in Jesus as the Christ = death, the resurrection is the choice of Faith in Jesus as the Christ = Life.
That is why one can be born again into the Spirit, while already alive in the flesh and can also, by choice, be the dead burying the dead.
Likewise all the quoted passages can be seen in this manner.
Regards Tony
I already told you why BahaUllah is an enemy of Jesus:
He does not teach about Satan the Devil and all the effort he is doing to lie humans so they cann't know the truth.
He teaches about certain "kingdom" that other humans by themselves will bring to the planet, not about the Kingdom of Jesus.
BahaUllah does not know anything about everlasting life on earth.
He doesn't teach about what was the reason why sin and death appeared on the human scene.
BahaUllah doesn't teach about the God of Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jesus and the real Christians'.
He is all about contradicting him, no matter how covertly he does it. A true Christian sees it clearly.
If you really consider Jesus as your Savior, you should be more careful about who you want to listen to. Jesus is going to destroy all his enemies.
He does not teach about Satan the Devil and all the effort he is doing to lie humans so they cann't know the truth.
He teaches about certain "kingdom" that other humans by themselves will bring to the planet, not about the Kingdom of Jesus.
BahaUllah does not know anything about everlasting life on earth.
He doesn't teach about what was the reason why sin and death appeared on the human scene.
BahaUllah doesn't teach about the God of Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jesus and the real Christians'.
He is all about contradicting him, no matter how covertly he does it. A true Christian sees it clearly.
If you really consider Jesus as your Savior, you should be more careful about who you want to listen to. Jesus is going to destroy all his enemies.
That is always your choice. Personally I would offer, that if you want to understand what the Bible is saying, then the Quran and the Baha'i Writings will no doubt assist us in that quest.
Regards Tony
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is evident that Christians interpret the Bible as they please. Following Christian teachings is dangerous.
Why should any Baha'i follow the teachings of Christianity according to the parameters of the church instead of doing just the contrary?
The destruction is already inherent in the Message given by Jesus the Christ, the destruction is our choices. The destruction started in the age of Jesus, as men even then interpreted the scriptures without any given authority.
Regards Tony
Are you serious?
No, thanks.