Jesus is not God

[cataway]

Where does the Soul/Spirit come from if not given by God?

A soul is given at conception when the sperm fertilizes an egg. The seed of a human was already planted in the process given to us to fertilise the egg, but the spirit/soul was given at the moment of conception.

"...And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.." The first birth, not the 2nd birth.

".. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God..." The second birth.

A soul that needs to be born again in Faith, into the Holy Spirit, to "see", it is not saying the soul dies, it says the soul may not be able to see, if it is not born again.

Regards Tony

its called procreation . its the power of the male

 

[Trailblazer]

More about the Kingdom of Jesus on earth:

Isaiah 11:1 A twig will grow out of the stump of Jesʹse,
And a sprout from his roots will bear fruit.
2 And the spirit of Jehovah will settle upon him,
The spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
The spirit of counsel and of mightiness,
The spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.
3 And he will find delight in the fear of Jehovah.
He will not judge by what appears to his eyes,
Nor reprove simply according to what his ears hear.
4 He will judge the lowly with fairness,
And with uprightness he will give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth
And put the wicked to death with the breath of his lips.
5 Righteousness will be the belt around his waist,
And faithfulness the belt of his hips.
6 The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb,
And with the young goat the leopard will lie down,
And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7 The cow and the bear will feed together,
And their young will lie down together.
The lion will eat straw like the bull.
8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra,
And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
9 They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea.
10 In that day the root of Jesʹse will stand up as a signal for the peoples.
To him the nations will turn for guidance,
And his resting-place will become glorious.

That is not about BahaUllah's kingdom, whatever Bahais think it is.

That is about the kingdom of God on earth, the kingdom that Baha'u'llah ushered in.

The Kingdom of Jesus is a sure thing. It's coming, and like the signals show, it will be in our own generation. Amen!

Dream on. Christians have been saying it's coming since Jesus left, but it is never coming.
The kingdom of Jesus on earth is never coming because Jesus never promised a kingdom.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Eli G]

I can't help you here with every single thing you say about the Bible that BahaUllah has taught you wrong. You need a personal Bible study, and each and every one of your questions will be addressed.

I also don't have all the time in the world to be on this forum, and neither do any of my brothers, so trying to cause extended stays on the forum is not the solution to all your confusion.

In fact, I have my own personal Bible study at the Kingdom Hall in just a few minutes, and I need to prepare myself. Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses also continue to study the Bible so that no one can confuse us.

Have an excellent day.

 

[cataway]

Paradise is in heaven, not on earth. Everyone knows that except the JWs.

there was a time when Paradise was on earth . it will be returned to a Paradise

 

[Trailblazer]

This is what the Kingdom of Jesus will do to humankind:

Rev. 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

I don't see how that is the actual condition of Bahai people.

This is what the Kingdom of God will do for humankind, but it will not happen overnight.
Kingdoms take a long time to build.

 

[Trailblazer]

I can't help you here with every single thing you say about the Bible that BahaUllah has taught you wrong. You need a personal Bible study, and each and every one of your questions will be addressed.

I can't help you here with every single thing you say about the Bible that the JW church has taught you wrong.

I also don't have all the time in the world to be on this forum, and neither do any of my brothers, so trying to cause extended stays on the forum is not the solution to all your confusion.

I also don't have all the time in the world to be on this forum, so trying to cause extended stays on the forum is not the solution to all your confusion.

 

[Eli G]

That is about the kingdom of God on earth, the kingdom that Baha'u'llah ushered in.

Where? In Antarctica?

 

[Trailblazer]

there was a time when Paradise was on earth . it will be returned to a Paradise

Dream on. God doesn't work backwards, He moves forward.

 

[Trailblazer]

Where? In Antarctica?

No, all over the world, where Baha'i communities exist.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Bahais need to meet Jesus out of that enemy of him. That is the only way they will get everlasting life.

Everlasting life is not a true motive of faith. The genuine Love of God, the Messengers and of all humanity is a motive for us to serve each other.

A consequence of those choices may be what is promised, but God can just as well remove faith from us. We must be humble and have no love for heaven and fear of hell that is an over-riding motivation.

Regards Tony

 

[jimb]

man did not come down from heaven .there is no reason to believe that just because a person dies that they should go off to heaven. the only promise is ,that if you sin you will die.
face it you just don't want to believe death is the end of you

Death is not the end of anyone. That is what the Bible clearly says. Why can't you understand that?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Death is not the end of anyone. That is what the Bible clearly says. Why can't you understand that?

Just as death and decay are not really part of this material world, as death and decay are a requirement, that feeds and enables new life, one could say, a redistribution of atoms.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

its called procreation . its the power of the male

Scary, I say most of the power belongs to the women, unless you have dominant males who think they are humanities gift, who's mentality frustrates me no end.

That power lays in mind and not a sperm, nor an egg and mind has to be developed before it can make a choice to be born again.

1 Corinthians 14:20 "Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature."

Ephesians 4:13 "Until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ"

All those billions of souls that did not get to make that choice, did not obtain maturiry and died, in your given birth of soul scenario, are dead and forgotten. A soul born and died having made no choice in Christ.

What I see in the Bible is a spiritual soul that is enabled by a rational mind free will choice, to be born again. If by God’s Will we were unable to make such a choice, then the soul still exists in the Mercy and Compassion of God, that is God’s to give.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

there was a time when Paradise was on earth . it will be returned to a Paradise

You are all most welcome to it, it's like a vapor in the desert.

"..Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot "fatten nor appease his hunger.." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 328-329

"..Know ye that the world is even as a mirage rising over the sands, that the thirsty mistaketh for water. The wine of this world is but a vapour in the desert, its pity and compassion but toil and trouble, the repose it proffereth only weariness and sorrow.." ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 186

Regards Tony

 

[cataway]

You are all most welcome to it, it's like a vapor in the desert.

"..Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot "fatten nor appease his hunger.." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 328-329

"..Know ye that the world is even as a mirage rising over the sands, that the thirsty mistaketh for water. The wine of this world is but a vapour in the desert, its pity and compassion but toil and trouble, the repose it proffereth only weariness and sorrow.." ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 186

Regards Tony

Isaiah 11:7​

The cow and the bear will feed together, And their young will lie down together. The lion will eat straw like the bull.

Isaiah 11:6​

The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb, And with the young goat the leopard will lie down, And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together; And a little boy will lead them.

are you saying it will never happen ?

 

[cataway]

Scary, I say most of the power belongs to the women, unless you have dominant males who think they are humanities gift, who's mentality frustrates me no end.

That power lays in mind and not a sperm, nor an egg and mind has to be developed before it can make a choice to be born again.

1 Corinthians 14:20 "Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature."

Ephesians 4:13 "Until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ"

All those billions of souls that did not get to make that choice, did not obtain maturiry and died, in your given birth of soul scenario, are dead and forgotten. A soul born and died having made no choice in Christ.

What I see in the Bible is a spiritual soul that is enabled by a rational mind free will choice, to be born again. If by God’s Will we were unable to make such a choice, then the soul still exists in the Mercy and Compassion of God, that is God’s to give.

Regards Tony

the woman nurtures the life

 

[Trailblazer]

Everlasting life is not a true motive of faith. The genuine Love of God, the Messengers and of all humanity is a motive for us to serve each other.

A consequence of those choices may be what is promised, but God can just as well remove faith from us. We must be humble and have no love for heaven and fear of hell that is an over-riding motivation.

You just reminded me of some of my favorite verses.

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise.... Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Pages 77-78

 

[Trailblazer]

Isaiah 11:7​

The cow and the bear will feed together, And their young will lie down together. The lion will eat straw like the bull.

Isaiah 11:6​

The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb, And with the young goat the leopard will lie down, And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together; And a little boy will lead them.

are you saying it will never happen ?

That depends upon whether you are interpreting those verses literally.

Do you think that those verses are referring to what animals will do?

 

[Trailblazer]

You are all most welcome to it, it's like a vapor in the desert.

"..Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot "fatten nor appease his hunger.." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 328-329

Did not Jesus say something similar? Seems to me they are coming from the same Source, God.

Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

 

[cataway]

That depends upon whether you are interpreting those verses literally.

Do you think that those verses are referring to what animals will do?

I am saying that's the way the earth will be under kingdom rule . it a bit into the future yet it will happen