Jesus is not God

[TransmutingSoul]

Are you serious?

No, thanks.

Yes, very serious and Loving. No worries, it is only offered in Love and peace, for the "Glory of God".

May Christ be with you always.

This is the monent when my JW friend and I say after we disused faith over our cups of tea, all the best until next we meet and the discussion continues.

We both like cake or biscuits as well.

Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

I think you've lost track of where eternal life is, and believe me, it's not in BahaUllah.

Come back to reality, for your own good.

Have a nice day.

 

[Trailblazer]

I already told you why BahaUllah is an enemy of Jesus:

He does not teach about Satan the Devil and all the effort he is doing to lie humans so they cann't know the truth.

There is no such thing as Satan or the Devil, that is why he doesn't teach about it.

He teaches about certain "kingdom" that other humans by themselves will bring to the planet, not about the Kingdom of Jesus.

Yes He does, because the Kingdom of God will be built on earth by humans.

There will be no 'Kingdom of Jesus' on earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

BahaUllah does not know anything about everlasting life on earth.

There is no such thing as everlasting life on earth, that is why he doesn't know about it.

He doesn't teach about what was the reason why sin and death appeared on the human scene.

Baha'u'llah did teach about why sin came into this world.

Physical death has always been in this world and always will be in this world because humans were created to be mortal.
I did not need Baha'u'llah to teach me that.

BahaUllah doesn't teach about the God of Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jesus and the real Christians'.

He certainly does.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think you've lost track of where eternal life is, and believe me, it's not in BahaUllah.

I think you've lost track of where eternal life is, and believe me, it's not living forever on earth.
NEVER did Jesus say that, not even once.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[Eli G]

There is no such thing as Satan or the Devil, that is why he doesn't teach about it.

Yes He does, because the Kingdom of God will be built on earth by humans.

There will be no 'Kingdom of Jesus' on earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

There is no such thing as everlasting life on earth, that is why he doesn't know about it.

Baha'u'llah did teach about why sin came into this world.

Physical death has always been in this world and always will be in this world because humans were created to be mortal.
I did not need Baha'u'llah to teach me that.

He certainly does.

This is why BahaUllah is such of an enemy of Jesus: he is confusing you about Jesus' teachings.

I think you've lost track of where eternal life is, and believe me, it's not living forever on earth.
NEVER did Jesus say that, not even once.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

That sounds like any other of your many tantrums. My words will never mean the same in your mouth.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is why BahaUllah is such of an enemy of Jesus: he is confusing you about Jesus' teachings.

This is why the JW church is such of an enemy of Jesus: they are confusing you about Jesus' teachings.

That sounds like any other of your many tantrums.

No, it sounds like the truth, because Jesus said it

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

There is nothing in the Bible that says eternal life is living forever on earth. That is only a JW teaching that came about by misinterpreting certain verses. Thankfully, most Christians got it right since they know that they go to heaven when they die.

 

[Eli G]

I don't see how someone who said s/he doesn't know much about what the Bible teaches, and only sees it through the eyes of an enemy of Jesus, can say anything about "misinterpreting certain verses".

You should get that kind of fights with other Bahais about what your guy wrote, not about the Bible.

 

[cataway]

I think you've lost track of where eternal life is, and believe me, it's not living forever on earth.
NEVER did Jesus say that, not even once.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

man did not come down from heaven .there is no reason to believe that just because a person dies that they should go off to heaven. the only promise is ,that if you sin you will die.
face it you just don't want to believe death is the end of you

 

[Eli G]

Jesus clearly talked about eternal life on earth:

Matt. 5:5 Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.

No servant of Jehovah before Christ ever believed in the idea of humans going to live in heaven. That was new news that was only given to Christians after Christ. The Bible says how many and for what purpose they will be the exception to the rest of humanity.

No matter what you show him/her, s/he will not accept it, because s/he does not accept what the Bible says but what BahaUllah tells him/her to believe about what the Bible says.

Either way, a Bible study is still the offer for those who wish to learn more about the teachings of Jesus and the eternal hope of those who become his followers. Here is a discret option for all Request a Visit From Jehovah’s Witnesses :: Bible Study Sign Up Form

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't see how someone who said s/he doesn't know much about what the Bible teaches,

I know enough of the Bible to see how badly it has been misinterpreted by Christians.

and only sees it through the eyes of an enemy of Jesus, can say anything about "misinterpreting certain verses".

Baha'u'llah was not an enemy of Jesus, He was the fulfillment of the promises of Jesus, the Comforter and the Spirit of truth, and the return of the Son of man who came in the clouds.

Son of man coming with the clouds means that the return of Christ will appear in the form of another human being. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things clouded their judgment and hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

 

[Eli G]

I don't know where all that false triumphalism comes from. BahaUllah died without meeting your expectations:

Dan. 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

Jesus is coming.

Re. 22:20 “The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’”
“Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”

 

[Trailblazer]

man did not come down from heaven .there is no reason to believe that just because a person dies that they should go off to heaven.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

The father's house is in heaven, not on earth.

the only promise is ,that if you sin you will die.

If you sin you will die spiritually. Whether or not you sin, you will die physically.
Everyone knows that except Christians who cannot interpret the Bible.

face it you just don't want to believe death is the end of you

I am not the one who needs to face that because I know that physical death is the end of life on earth.
You are the one who needs to fact the fact that physical death is the end of your life on earth.
I doubt you will ever face that until you die and have no choice.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is why BahaUllah is such of an enemy of Jesus: he is confusing you about Jesus' teachings

An enemy, and interesting interpretation of what Baha'u'llah offered.

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him."

— Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, XXXVI

Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

Life on heaven is just another one of too many topics BahaUllah confused his followers.
Bahais need to meet Jesus out of that enemy of him. That is the only way they will get everlasting life.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know where all that false triumphalism comes from. BahaUllah died without meeting your expectations:

Dan. 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

Baha'u'llah met all those expectations.

Someone like a son of man was coming. That means it was not Jesus who was coming, since Jesus was the son of man.

Jesus is coming.

Re. 22:20 “The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’”
“Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”

Jesus dis not say that. That was written by a man who was beckoning Jesus to come. So what?

Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[Eli G]

This is what the Kingdom of Jesus will do to humankind:

Rev. 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

I don't see how that is the actual condition of Bahai people.

 

[cataway]

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

if you had read the Bible you would know Jesus was talking directly to his disciples about their role in the kingdom arrangement . not everyone go's off to heaven ,the number is limited and only by invitation

 

[Eli G]

More about the Kingdom of Jesus on earth:

Isaiah 11:1 A twig will grow out of the stump of Jesʹse,
And a sprout from his roots will bear fruit.
2 And the spirit of Jehovah will settle upon him,
The spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
The spirit of counsel and of mightiness,
The spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.
3 And he will find delight in the fear of Jehovah.
He will not judge by what appears to his eyes,
Nor reprove simply according to what his ears hear.
4 He will judge the lowly with fairness,
And with uprightness he will give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth
And put the wicked to death with the breath of his lips.
5 Righteousness will be the belt around his waist,
And faithfulness the belt of his hips.
6 The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb,
And with the young goat the leopard will lie down,
And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7 The cow and the bear will feed together,
And their young will lie down together.
The lion will eat straw like the bull.
8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra,
And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
9 They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea.
10 In that day the root of Jesʹse will stand up as a signal for the peoples.
To him the nations will turn for guidance,
And his resting-place will become glorious.

That is not about BahaUllah's kingdom, whatever Bahais think it is.

Actually, @Trailblazer said before that BahaUllah won't be the last "manifestation of God", so it looks like that is the "persian Bahai dream" (a sarcasm based on "the American dream"), something that may come to happen and may not.

The Kingdom of Jesus is a sure thing. It's coming, and like the signals show, it will be in our own generation. Amen!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

man did not come down from heaven .there is no reason to believe that just because a person dies that they should go off to heaven. the only promise is ,that if you sin you will die.
face it you just don't want to believe death is the end of you

Where does the Soul/Spirit come from if not given by God?

A soul is given at conception when the sperm fertilizes an egg. The seed of a human was already planted in the process given to us to fertilise the egg, but the spirit/soul was given at the moment of conception.

"...And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.." The first birth, not the 2nd birth.

".. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God..." The second birth.

A soul that needs to be born again in Faith, into the Holy Spirit, to "see", it is not saying the soul dies, it says the soul may not be able to see, if it is not born again.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus clearly talked about eternal life on earth:

Matt. 5:5 Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.

That verse does not say that anyone will have eternal life on earth.

The mild-tempered people who are living on earth and their progeny when the kingdom comes to earth will inherit the earth.
The verse does not say that dead people will rise from their graves and live on earth forever.
That is just a twisted JW interpretation, one among many.

Let's look at another verse they twisted the meaning of.

“Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”—LUKE 23:43.

Jesus was speaking about the future earthly Paradise. Why can we say that?

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-december-2022/You-Will-Be-With-Me-in-Paradise/

Jesus was not speaking about a future earthly Paradise.
The verse says "you will be with me." Jesus is not going to be with anyone on earth since Jesus is in heaven.
Paradise is in heaven, not on earth. Everyone knows that except the JWs.