Jesus is not God

[Eli G]

There is no proof that any beliefs are true, Christian or Baha'i. If there was proof, they would be facts, not beliefs.

Now you've really surprised me.

Does that mean you're actually a pro-Bahai agnostic instead of an actual Bahai?

 

[Trailblazer]

The same to BahaUllah. He cann't say anything about any Jesus since the only things he knew is what he read in the Christian Writings (the versions he read) ... BahaIUllah is not reliable then.

As I just said in a previous post, Baha'u'llah got His knowledge about Jesus from God. He did not get it from the Bible.

In the 19th century, like Joseph Smith, Ellen White, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and so many others.

So what do you think that proves?

Why would be that? Did BahaUllah have any private source of knowledge about Jesus' teachings?

Baha'u'llah had knowledge of Jesus' teachings from God, who is all-knowing.

Oh, well, you seem to hear "Christians" when I say "Bible".
There's some error that you need to correct on your way of listening what I say.

I said heard and said Bible.
b) Christians twisted what is recorded in the Bible in order to support certain Christian beliefs and doctrines and which the Baha'i Faith teaches are false.

 

[Trailblazer]

It sounds like from each word you speak, The New Testament is unreliable, We should just listen to your Holy Scriptures instead!

I am not telling anyone what to listen to. Everyone has to make their own choices.

You are not agreeing with the Bible, You are correcting the Bible, Doesn't this make your teachings Anti-Bible?

I am not correcting the Bible...
What I am not agreeing with is how Christians have interpreted the Bible, what they believe it means.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have a lot of interesting conversations with Trinitarian believers ... and those are very different with respect to a conversation with a Bahai.
Trinitarians don't have any other prophet to hear, so there are many chances they understand what I say.

Of course JWs and Trinitarians are going to agree on many things, but that was not my point.
My point was that the JW and the Trinitarian Christian are reading the SAME Bible yet they have contradictory beliefs?
What do you think that means?

 

[Eli G]

As I just said in a previous post, Baha'u'llah got His knowledge about Jesus from God. He did not get it from the Bible.

So I asked you

And how was that? Did he hear God's voice or saw a vision like Joseph Smith said he did? Did he talk to an angel? Did an angel give him any secret Scriptures that no one else had?

Anything ... at all? Or you believe so just because he said so and that's it?

So what do you think that proves?

That BahaUllah is just another of the bunch, sorry.

Baha'u'llah had knowledge of Jesus' teachings from God,

He said that.

You need more than just his word to believe something that serious ... since many others said and are saying the same all the time.

God who is all-knowing.

Oh, I know God, believe me. I don't need BahaUllah for that.

I said heard and said Bible.
b) Christians twisted what is recorded in the Bible in order to support certain Christian beliefs and doctrines and which the Baha'i Faith teaches are false.

Again, I can talk with any "Christian" about what the Bible teaches. I do prefer to talk about what the Scriptures say, not about how people interpret them.

Actually, even Bahais writtings may have a lot of interpretations, even if they came just from a man.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you think there's any non-biblical source about Jesus' teachings that BahaUllah consulted, @Trailblazer ?

Baha'u'llah did not need to consult anyone because He got His knowledge from God.
This is the third time I have said that.

 

[Trailblazer]

and the penalty for sin is , death ? (Romans 6:23 )

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Eli G]

Baha'u'llah did not need to consult anyone because He got His knowledge from God.
This is the third time I have said that.

It seems you think Bahaullah is some kind of God.

But I don't see anything special on him than what I see on Joseph Smith. The Mormon guy was smarter, though. He invented some dialog with angels, visions ... besides the new writings. BahaUllah was just some writings.

 

[cataway]

Of course JWs and Trinitarians are going to agree on many things, but that was not my point.
My point was that the JW and the Trinitarian Christian are reading the SAME Bible yet they have contradictory beliefs?
What do you think that means?

not surprised , it was for told it would happen

 

[Trailblazer]

Muslims rejected Bahais the same way Catholics called "separated brothers" to Protestants.

No, Muslims reject Bahai Faith because they don't believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God
Both Catholics and protestants believe in Jesus so it is not the same way.

I already told you the difference between BahaUllah and Jesus. You seem to miss some important parts of my posts.

Regarding being self proclaimed, I already told you why there is no difference between Baha'u'llah and Jesus.
You seem to miss some important parts of my posts.

 

[Eli G]

Of course JWs and Trinitarians are going to agree on many things, but that was not my point.
My point was that the JW and the Trinitarian Christian are reading the SAME Bible yet they have contradictory beliefs?
What do you think that means?

It means that Satan is working hard and we need to work more to help others like Jesus order us in Matthew 28:19,20.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus dies at the age of 120 years old?

Jesus was 33 1/2 years old when he was executed on the Jewish Spring month of Nisan in the year 33 C.E. ( common era )
Jesus would have turned 34 in the autumn of the year
No basis in the Bible for Jesus living 120 years

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It means that Satan is working hard and we need to work more to help others like Jesus order us in Matthew 28:19,20.

Jesus also said the good news of God's Kingdom aka government (Daniel 2:44) would be proclaimed internationally at Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8

 

[cataway]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

then to be saved would mean to be saved from death. in one form to never die. from another to be resurrected to live again . both yet a future event

 

[Eli G]

No, Muslims reject Bahai Faith because they don't believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God
Both Catholics and protestants believe in Jesus so it is not the same way.

I don't really care, sorry. Bahaullah was a 19th century guy.

Regarding being self proclaimed, I already told you why there is no difference between Baha'u'llah and Jesus.

I guess you don't mind ... but Jesus was recognized by God himself. His disciples listened God's voice from heaven saying "This is my beloved Son. Listen to him".

Take a time to meditate in what is been said here.

Have a good day.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why are you comparing BahaUllah to Jesus if nothing like that happen in his case?

Mark 9:7 And a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud: “This is my Son, the beloved. Listen to him.”

Because something LIKE THAT did happen in Baha'u'llah's case.
Baha'u'llah heard the Voice of God that told Him who He was, a Messenger and Manifestation of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

And how was that? Did he hear God's voice or saw a vision like Joseph Smith said he did? Did he talk to an angel? Did an angel give him any secret Scriptures that no one else had?

Anything ... at all? Or you believe so just because he said so and that's it?

Baha'u'llah heard God speak through the Holy Spirit.

Interesting, but the Messiah is a figure that Jehovah promised to come: one of a class.

If it is the figure that God promised to come in the latter days it was not Jesus.

That is very different than that idea of many prophets, like the ones the Jews had and spoke in God's name. Actually, they talked to angels who gave them God's messages. Did BahaUllah?

Angels did not give Baha'u'llah God's messages. God gave them to Him through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now you've really surprised me.

Does that mean you're actually a pro-Bahai agnostic instead of an actual Bahai?

No, it does not mean what you said.

Any actual Baha'i should know that beliefs are faith-based so there is no proof.
There is evidence but evidence is not proof.

If there was proof, they would be facts, not beliefs.

 

[Eli G]

@Trailblazer Hearing such a statement from the mouth of a self-proclaimed prophet indicates absolutely nothing.

That is why God inspired written testimonies from the hands of eyewitnesses about things that happened.

Coincidentally, what you need to prove that BahaUllah is trustworthy is what you reject about the Christian writings, to know that he is not at all comparable to Jesus:

it was not him, Jesus, who told that he was the Messiah but his disciples, who listened the voice of God recognizing him ... something that you cann't say about your guy.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

then to be saved would mean to be saved from death. in one form to never die. from another to be resurrected to live again . both yet a future event

Yes, agree, because the death problem does Not exist in Heaven, No tombstones in Heaven. No body dies in Heaven
Yes, according to Acts 24:15 resurrection ( to live again ) is a coming future event - John 6:40,44
That future event takes place during Jesus' Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth for 1000 years
- 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8