Jesus is not God

[Trailblazer]

He said that.

You need more than just his word to believe something that serious ... since many others said and are saying the same all the time.

You need more than just what came from Jesus by way of oral tradition to believe something that serious ... since oral tradition is notoriously unreliable.

Again, I can talk with any "Christian" about what the Bible teaches. I do prefer to talk about what the Scriptures say, not about how people interpret them.

The scriptures do not SAY anything or TEACH anything. They just sit on a page until people read them and interpret them and assign a meaning to them.

Actually, even Bahais writtings may have a lot of interpretations, even if they came just from a man.

Actually, the Bible has a lot of interpretations, even if it came just from men.

 

[cataway]

Angels did not give Baha'u'llah God's messages. God gave them to Him through the Holy Spirit.

I have always thought that the holy angels are holy spirits

 

[Eli G]

Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

 

[Eli G]

Mormons say that Smith's writings are superior to the Bible because they are written in English. I ddn't know Bahais said something similar.

Both groups seem cut from the same cloth.

 

[Trailblazer]

It seems you think Bahaullah is some kind of God.

Nothing could be more false. It is Christians who believe that Jesus is God and worship Jesus as God. Baha'is do not worship anyone except God

But I don't see anything special on him than what I see on Joseph Smith. The Mormon guy was smarter, though. He invented some dialog with angels, visions ... besides the new writings. BahaUllah was just some writings.

Just because you don't see it that does not mean it is not there.

Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”

Baha'u'llah said something similar in His writings.

“So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor.” Gleanings, p. 39

“Say: So great is the glory of the Cause of God that even the blind can perceive it, how much more they whose sight is sharp, whose vision is pure.” Gleanings, p. 106

 

[walt]

There is no proof that any beliefs are true, Christian or Baha'i. If there was proof, they would be facts, not beliefs.

This week I have commented on many reasons [ evidences ] I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. Also other people have done this.

If you ask yourself this question: If I was to write down each of my reasons why I know my Holy Scriptures are inspired?


Who's evidence is stronger?

If we both do not give up, I think we both will find the correct answer!

 

[Trailblazer]

not surprised , it was for told it would happen

My point was that the JW and the Trinitarian Christian are reading the SAME Bible yet they have contradictory beliefs?
What do you think that means?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mark 9:7 And a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud: “This is my Son, the beloved. Listen to him.”
Because something LIKE THAT did happen in Baha'u'llah's case.
Baha'u'llah heard the Voice of God that told Him who He was, a Messenger and Manifestation of God.

To me Jesus is the only Messiah to save us - Daniel 9:25-26
1st-century people were looking and expecting Messiah would come in their time frame and Jesus did - Luke 3:15

 

[Eli G]

The Bible has an interesting account of overestimating a human being:

Acts 12:21 On a set day, Herod clothed himself with royal raiment and sat down on the judgment seat and began giving them a public address. 22 Then the people who were assembled began shouting: “A god’s voice, and not a man’s!” 23 Instantly the angel of Jehovah struck him, because he did not give the glory to God, and he was eaten up with worms and died.

Of course, Jesus was not an ordinary man.

 

[Trailblazer]

It means that Satan is working hard and we need to work more to help others like Jesus order us in Matthew 28:19,20.

Baha'is do not believe in Satan and an entity that is external to man. We believe it represents that lower material nature of man, the evil ego within.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

My point was that the JW and the Trinitarian Christian are reading the SAME Bible yet they have contradictory beliefs?
What do you think that means?

Means: both can't be right
Jesus said MANY would come in his name but prove false at Matthew 7:21-23
Those proving false would hate the others - Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:9

www.jw.org

 

[Trailblazer]

then to be saved would mean to be saved from death. in one form to never die. from another to be resurrected to live again . both yet a future event

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is not a reference to eternal life of the physical body. It is the person who gains eternal life and the person is a soul, not a physical body.
Nobody needs to be resurrected and live again in a physical body to have eternal life, because God assigns everyone a spiritual body after they die physically and go to heaven.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Baha'is do not believe in Satan and an entity that is external to man. We believe it represents that lower material nature of man, the evil ego within.

Interesting because I never thought of Jesus as having evil ego within himself - Luke 4:5-8; 4:41

 

[cataway]

Baha'u'llah did not need to consult anyone because He got His knowledge from God.
This is the third time I have said that.

John 14:6​

"Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

that being the case Baha'u'llah would of been talking to Jesus

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't really care, sorry. Bahaullah was a 19th century guy.

I guess you don't mind ... but Jesus was recognized by God himself. His disciples listened God's voice from heaven saying "This is my beloved Son. Listen to him".

I guess you don't mind ... but Baha'u'llah was recognized by God Himself.
Baha'u'llah was not only recognized by God, he was chosen by God, just like Jesus.

 

[Eli G]

BahaUllah was the Iranian version of Joseph Smith ... and nothing else.

 

[walt]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is not a reference to eternal life of the physical body. It is the person who gains eternal life and the person is a soul, not a physical body.
Nobody needs to be resurrected and live again in a physical body to have eternal life, because God assigns everyone a spiritual body after they die physically and go to heaven.

That's okay for you to believe that! But I cannot believe one word of that. Why? Because in order for me to form a belief [ a explanation ] I need to have Jesus explain the details of my belief. And if Jesus doesn't talk about it, I need to hear the details of my belief from an apostle.

Not from any human!

 

[cataway]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is not a reference to eternal life of the physical body. It is the person who gains eternal life and the person is a soul, not a physical body.
Nobody needs to be resurrected and live again in a physical body to have eternal life, because God assigns everyone a spiritual body after they die physically and go to heaven.

eternal life??. we know what life is. we know what eternal means. the salvation Jesus offers means no more death .even to be saved from death .

James 5:20​

know that whoever turns a sinner back from the error of his way will save him from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Eternal life is not a reference to eternal life of the physical body. It is the person who gains eternal life and the person is a soul, not a physical body.
Nobody needs to be resurrected and live again in a physical body to have eternal life, because God assigns everyone a spiritual body after they die physically and go to heaven.

True, having a physical body does Not guarantee eternal life
Adam had a physical body and that did Not guarantee Adam everlasting life
Rather, keeping God's law was a guarantee for everlasting life on Earth for humanity - Gen. 2:17; 3:19
If Adam had Not broken God's Law his righteous descendants would be alive forever on Earth living forever on Earth
True, the 'saints/holy ones' (Daniel 7:18) are assigned a 'spirit body' when they are resurrected - Revelation 20:6
That is because ' flesh....' ( physical ) can not inherit the kingdom ( aka Heaven ) -1st Cor. 15:50
Humble meek people will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
They are Not the 'saints/holy ones' but the 'righteous ones' of Acts 24:15 (KJV says the just ones )

 

[Trailblazer]

@Trailblazer Hearing such a statement from the mouth of a self-proclaimed prophet indicates absolutely nothing.

That is why God inspired written testimonies from the hands of eyewitnesses about things that happened.

There were no eyewitnesses to Jesus, but there were eyewitnesses to Baha'u'llah who lived when he lived and chronicled the history of the Baha'i Faith.
You do not have that for Jesus, you just believe you have it, but Bible scholars have proven you wrong.

All you have is a belief that God inspired written testimonies from the hands of eyewitnesses about things that happened.

Coincidentally, what you need to prove that BahaUllah is trustworthy is what you reject about the Christian writings, to know that he is not at all comparable to Jesus:

it was not him, Jesus, who told that he was the Messiah but his disciples, who listened the voice of God recognizing him ... something that you cann't say about your guy.

Baha'u'llah also had disciples who listened the voice of God recognizing him.