Jesus is not god

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

You have to separate what Jesus said he was from what the authors of the NT Bible say he was.
Jesus himself did not know what he was and had to ask his disciples what the people were saying he was and what they thought he was? And when Peter called him the Christ, he did not correct Peter. So we know Jesus did not believe he was God or he would have corrected Peter.

Luke 9:18 Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, "Who do the crowds say I am?"
19 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that one of the prophets of long ago has come back to life."
20 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Peter answered, "The Christ of God."
21 Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone.

Why didn't Jesus want the people to know what he was? Who was going to tell them and how could they believe him if they were not told what he was by his disciples or himself?

Jesus let out his doubts about his beliefs even as the messiah in the final moments before he died.


Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Jesus could not make himself a God. He repeatedly called God his Father in Heaven.


But why did he believe his Father was God?

Joseph told Jesus he was not his real father and it is quite unlikely anyone stepped forward and claimed to be Jesus's real father because adultery was punishable by death. So what was a disturbed young Jesus to do? He searched the scriptures for answers. There is evidence of his early obsession with scriptures. At the age of 12 he was already well versed in the Bible and called the temple his Father's house. And henceforth he called God his Father even before his parents.

Luke 2:46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
49 "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?"

Christ s aid the word son the cross.
My God my God why have you forsaken me-.-
And II-
Christ did not declare him self God in the words of Frank
But he was referring to his divinity always.
To know God is through his characteristics-the
Christ was identi calrecipes with the qualitiesof God-
And I give you this example-
When you say I treat patients and hold a degree
Here-you didn'tsay you'redoctor-
But who hears your qualities such
Know you are doctor-
The same method-
This is the method that gave us Christto be God
Through its actions and attributes
And he knew his disciples that God
I hope that my idea clear

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

So that tell us there is a problem in the bible and it contradicts itself whether you like it or not.

My point is 100 % supported by the bible and by logic.

If you think your point is also supported by the bible, than face up the fact that your bible contradicts itself and has false teachings.

You do not have the right of interpreting the Bible
You will be penalized by
Bible teaching and not a hoax.-
YesJesusdidsay (Iis God)-.
But Christ declared attributes and qualities of God-.
i have provided an example of a Gospel in Jesus
If I told youI am defending people in court
I graduated with a degree
Inever talk about my profession
But on certain characteristics
Identical with the legal profession
Icounsel
Because the qualities presented by are law firm
And the Gospel Jesus gave us in this method
Any qualities of Christ that are compatible with the attributes of God
In Holiness
These qualities gave us himself and knew that God
All of the verses of the Bible are compatible in this

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The contrast is in the Koran and not the Bible-.
I do not believe in the Quran.
But I submit to you because you Muslim believes it-
1. and we breathed there in of our soul-.-
This talk of Koran-
The spirit of Christisthe spirit of God
The result that is God-
This is my interpretation of this verse of Quran
2. speech on Mary-
Word of God-the-speechonMary-
Therefore Christ the word of God
The result is that the Word always traceable.
3. supported by the Holy Spirit.
Who is the Holy Spirit.
Why Quran said this speech-.
You arenotable to provideany definitiontothe Holy Spirit
The result is that the Holy Spirit is the relationship between son and God
Between Christ and God
These three point sare very important from the Qur'an
Prove that Jesus is God
But the Quran contradicts itself
When rejected, that Christ is Godin the other verses
YouDear?
You have to knowthe differencebetween Christthe word
And Mohammed creature
Christ born as you are without a father believes that his father is God.
Spirit ualparenting
Mohamed Abu Mohammed's meeting with Muhammad in sexual relationship
As a result of the sexual relationship with Muhammad
Then the Quran contradictsit self
Not Gospel

 

[JM2C]

Thank you

You are welcome

The logic is that a bible should talk to any person and give him answers whether he was a believer or if he was not a believer.

If you read the bible from the heart and not doubt then God will open your heart to understand what you’re reading.
Jn 12:40 “He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.”

Eyes to READ and heart to UNDERSTAND.

 

[JM2C]

The logic is that God gave as mind to process things. If it was only about faith, God would have replaced our mind with more faith.

The crucifixion, the death, the burial, and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus according to your belief or teachings, the Koran, was just a LIE.

The Koran says in 4:157 “And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.”

But to Christianity, the Crucifixion, the Death, the Burial, and the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus is the power of God.

1Co 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

“the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing” From here you can deduct who are “perishing” and they are not the Christians because this is the basis of our belief on which your religion or your belief been denying.

 

[JM2C]

Logic is that if the Christianity is the way of life that God wants us to follow, than the bible should be its proof. It should not be against that.

You read few verses from bible that contradicts your teachings, or the Koran, and make a dogmatic arrogant assertion from it without even understanding what those verses in the bible meant and when you run out of things to say you accuse us Christians as if we are the one who cannot understand the bible.

God gave us understanding to understand the bible or God revealed Himself to us through His words, and that is, the Bible.

God revealed Himself to the Israelites through Moses in the OT.

Dt 29:29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.

God revealed Himself to the Gentiles through the Lord Jesus through Paul’s teachings in the NT.

Col 1:25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you/Gentiles the word of God in its fullness—

Col 1:26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.

Col 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

If you are not a Jew then you are a Gentile. IOW, God revealed Himself to the Israelites first in the OT, then to the Gentiles in the NT and not in the koran.

 

[viole]

I wasn't quoting it because I was using it as proof of anything, It was just a movie depicting Jesus's death in such a horribly and gory manner so I imagined that if you had watched it like I have you wouldn't be so casual about the death of Jesus.

Because it did not look like a death at all. Dead people stay dead and do not expect to magically come back to life after the weekend.

And they do not ask, before "dying" : Father, why have you forsaken me? for something that was planned from the beginning of time. Did He forget that His cruxifiction was part of the big plan and that He was supposed, as announced, to come back in three days? I would have complained after the fourth day without resurrection, on account of goods not delivered.

I can only imagine the Father's confusion while asking Himself: what He is complaining about? Backing off now? Didn't He, or i, understand what the cosmic plan was?

I think it is pretty obvious that it does not make any sense. For Mel Gibson, maybe, but I would not call him a role model for analytical thinking.

Not really.
I was talking about suffering so badly in life that you feel entitiled when you die, But since Jesus suffered worse then there are no excuses in that sense.

Worse than whom? Do you think that He suffered more than any other normal human being that walked on earth? Normal human who did not even have the not negligible advantage of being the Son of God?

But if you know that you have a death expectancy of three days...I mean, why not?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sabour]

You are welcome
If you read the bible from the heart and not doubt then God will open your heart to understand what you’re reading.
Jn 12:40 “He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.”

Eyes to READ and heart to UNDERSTAND.

Perhaps you need a closed mind too in order not to see the contradictions between what the bible says and what people make the bible say.

You so often said read and understand in this thread. Do you read to understand or do you read to believe ?

 

[Sabour]

The crucifixion, the death, the burial, and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus according to your belief or teachings, the Koran, was just a LIE.

The Koran says in 4:157 “And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.”

But to Christianity, the Crucifixion, the Death, the Burial, and the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus is the power of God.

1Co 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

“the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing” From here you can deduct who are “perishing” and they are not the Christians because this is the basis of our belief on which your religion or your belief been denying.

If you are accepting that Jesus peace be upon him was crucified, than you are accepting that Jesus peace be upon him is cursed by God

Deuteronomy 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God; )that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

And by the way, am sorry that you can't make your point from your own bible and prove it that you have to quote the Quraan and accuse it of being a lie, Frankly I didn't expect that from you.


If you can't make your point next time just tell me that you don't want to discuss things instead of coming and telling me it is a lie when you have no proof for it other what you have been told.

And advise you to go study your bible because if it is right, you couldn't actually show me that it is right, and if it is wrong, than it is out of your responsibility to know the truth. Blind faith is not acceptable to God.

 

[savagewind]

In a way Jesus was cursed. He took upon himself our sins. In that way he was cursed.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I can only speculate, But just because it sounds strange doesn't make it unlikely or impossible. In His human state He cried out to His eternal, omnipotent, omniscient self. I don't see that as a problem.

I do! ..this portrays Almighty God as having a 'split personality' .. extremely unlikely!

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Because it did not look like a death at all. Dead people stay dead and do not expect to magically come back to life after the weekend.

And they do not ask, before "dying" : Father, why have you forsaken me? for something that was planned from the beginning of time. Did He forget that His cruxifiction was part of the big plan and that He was supposed, as announced, to come back in three days? I would have complained after the fourth day without resurrection, on account of goods not delivered.

I can only imagine the Father's confusion while asking Himself: what He is complaining about? Backing off now? Didn't He, or i, understand what the cosmic plan was?

I think it is pretty obvious that it does not make any sense. For Mel Gibson, maybe, but I would not call him a role model for analytical thinking.



Worse than whom? Do you think that He suffered more than any other normal human being that walked on earth? Normal human who did not even have the not negligible advantage of being the Son of God?

But if you know that you have a death expectancy of three days...I mean, why not?

Ciao

- viole

Iunderstand from your words-the following-
You see that all things with out meaning-
Up your lifeyou senseless
--
This is logicalanalytical-.
Birth-we do not choose letting go-date.
We grow– andeatanddrinkanddie-.-
All remaining meaningless-.
But Christianity provides you with the meaning of life.
And this is important-
Christian said.
We're not trash nature-
We humans-there-fromloves us-.
It made uslove us-.
Do you think thatartMakerdoes not likethings-.
Permission
The birth ofChrist –
The death of Christ
Resurrection ofChrist-
Thefaithbelieves thathumanlifemakessense
--
God-human-attended.
Godis presentamong usalways.
Why do you think this is possible??!?
Rigid gods has no value-.
Seeks God
Since the beginning of mankind
Thequestions arethe same-
Why we are here-
Why live-.
Why we die-.
There wasGilgamesh
But he did not obtain answer.-
But with the presence of Christ
Own human itarianre sponse
Godcame
Godis present
God is love
I give you these notes
Because life is meaningless
Arepointless-.
Yes,thinks that his life is worth less breaks down
Loses his humanity also
This is ahuman-
You and I-.
But when we have to
Beour most beautiful

 

[JM2C]

If you are accepting that Jesus peace be upon him was crucified, than you are accepting that Jesus peace be upon him is cursed by God
Deuteronomy 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God; )that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

2Co 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

The sinless Christ -2Co 5:21, and the only sin He had, through no fault of His/Christ own, was the cross, I.E., dying on the cross, and by dying on the cross God cursed Him in place of us sinners. He became a substitute for the human race. God’s justice was satisfied on Christ by dying on the cross so that us sinners should not experience the same death and face God’s wrath. The Lord Jesus faced God’s wrath 2000 years ago so that those who will believe in Him [John 3:16] shall not face the same thing.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
Gal 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

You see the genealogy here, Abraham to Isaac -and NOT to Ishmael where you claimed your religion came from- and then to Jacob, to the 12 tribes of Israel, and one of the 12 tribes of Israel was Judah where the Lord Jesus human ancestry came from.

How did the Gentiles fit into this promise, the promise of God to Abraham? Not through human genealogy of course but through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. “so that by faith we –as in both Jews and Gentiles- might receive the promise of the Spirit.

At the end of this chapter Paul said,
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The barrier that separates the Jews and Gentiles had been broken down in Christ. Before and during Christ’s earthly ministry the Jews and Gentile proselytes worship God in the same temple, but there was a barrier or the middle wall.

"Josephus used this term to refer to the balustrade in the Jerusalem temple separating the court of the Gentiles from the temple proper. On it was an inscription that read: "No foreigner may enter within the barricade which surrounds the sanctuary and enclosure. Anyone who is caught doing so will have himself to blame for his ensuing death." When Jerusalem fell in A.D. 70, this partition was demolished along with the temple itself. But Paul saw it as already destroyed by Christ at the cross" -A. A.

In Christ all Jews and Gentiles are one because the “middle wall” was broken down spiritually long before it was destroyed physically in A.D. 70.

Jn 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
Jn 17:21 that all of them -Jews and Gentiles- may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

 

[Sabour]

In a way Jesus was cursed. He took upon himself our sins. In that way he was cursed.

Which sins?

Adam and Eve deciding to eat from the tree? Something they have already been forgiven for? Something we had no choice in?

Did Adam and Eve consult every one of us of whether they have to eat from the apple or not ?

 

[JM2C]

And by the way, am sorry that you can't make your point from your own bible and prove it that you have to quote the Quraan and accuse it of being a lie, Frankly I didn't expect that from you.

Your religion is the one accusing us Christians of lying. If you read it carefully it says “and they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him”

 

[Sabour]

2Co 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

The sinless Christ -2Co 5:21, and the only sin He had, through no fault of His/Christ own, was the cross, I.E., dying on the cross, and by dying on the cross God cursed Him in place of us sinners. He became a substitute for the human race. God’s justice was satisfied on Christ by dying on the cross so that us sinners should not experience the same death and face God’s wrath. The Lord Jesus faced God’s wrath 2000 years ago so that those who will believe in Him [John 3:16] shall not face the same thing.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
Gal 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

You see the genealogy here, Abraham to Isaac -and NOT to Ishmael where you claimed your religion came from- and then to Jacob, to the 12 tribes of Israel, and one of the 12 tribes of Israel was Judah where the Lord Jesus human ancestry came from.

How did the Gentiles fit into this promise, the promise of God to Abraham? Not through human genealogy of course but through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. “so that by faith we –as in both Jews and Gentiles- might receive the promise of the Spirit.

At the end of this chapter Paul said,
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The barrier that separates the Jews and Gentiles had been broken down in Christ. Before and during Christ’s earthly ministry the Jews and Gentile proselytes worship God in the same temple, but there was a barrier or the middle wall.

Josephus used this term to refer to the balustrade in the Jerusalem temple separating the court of the Gentiles from the temple proper. On it was an inscription that read: "No foreigner may enter within the barricade which surrounds the sanctuary and enclosure. Anyone who is caught doing so will have himself to blame for his ensuing death." When Jerusalem fell in A.D. 70, this partition was demolished along with the temple itself. But Paul saw it as already destroyed by Christ at the cross -A. A.

In Christ all Jews and Gentiles are one because the “middle wall” was broken down spiritually long before it was destroyed physically in A.D. 70.

Jn 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
Jn 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

would you please answer questions instead of explaining things.

Was Jesus peace be upon him cursed ? Yes or no ?

I

 

[JM2C]

And advise you to go study your bible because if it is right, you couldn't actually show me that it is right, and if it is wrong, than it is out of your responsibility to know the truth. Blind faith is not acceptable to God.

Blind faith? It all depends on how one defines it. Is blind faith means faith into something without any evidence objectively or evidence subjectively? Subjectively I do believe in God and that is through faith in the Lord Jesus –John 14:6 “No one comes to the Father except through Christ”, Eph 2:8-9.

Objectively I do believe in God, and that is not by means of images or idols, but by expressing my belief to others, like the one we are doing now.

On the other hand, if what you meant by blind faith is the history of my religion. My religion goes all the way back to Abraham and even further. Jn 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Tell me yours. I know you have little to say about it, but tell it anyway.

 

[JM2C]

would you please answer questions instead of explaining things.

Was Jesus peace be upon him cursed ? Yes or no ?

I

Ahem, Ahem! PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND

 

[Sabour]

Ahem, Ahem! PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND

If you are really interested in a a discussion let us take a focal point for discussion and start from there. What do you think ?

If there is a need for a new thread let us make one.

I am interested in a constructive discussion. We won't be just trying to prove the other wrong.

What do you think? If you agree propose something

 

[JM2C]

Did Adam and Eve consult every one of us of whether they have to eat from the apple or not ?

How?