74x12
Well-Known Member
Whatever is truly from God.
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Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
74x12
Well-Known Member
Well if you want that kind of definition google "define: truth"
I was under the impression you wanted something more than that.
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
Well if you want that kind of definition google "define: truth"
I was under the impression you wanted something more than that.
If its true for you, it's true, but it may not be true for the man stood next to you.
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
Actually, the Father doesn't speak to us directly. He spoke through Jesus, not as Jesus. He speaks through the spirit, not as the spirit. They both were created.begotten by the Father.
John:
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John:
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The disciples and apostles never taught a all one trinity. The catholic church fathers adopted the idea. Ignatius referred to one, but it was Tetullian that coined the phrase almost two centuries after the crucifixion.
The argument that caused the event in Nicaea to establish the catholic church as Romes church was the debate between Arians (that didn't accept trinity) and the catholic church fathers that did. Considering that only 300 of 1800 church leaders showed up due to not trusting Constantine, says something about the Romans churches beginning
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
Actually, the Father doesn't speak to us directly. He spoke through Jesus, not as Jesus. He speaks through the spirit, not as the spirit. They both were created.begotten by the Father.
John:
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John:
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The disciples and apostles never taught a all one trinity. The catholic church fathers adopted the idea. Ignatius referred to one, but it was Tetullian that coined the phrase almost two centuries after the crucifixion.
The argument that caused the event in Nicaea to establish the catholic church as Romes church was the debate between Arians (that didn't accept trinity) and the catholic church fathers that did. Considering that only 300 of 1800 church leaders showed up due to not trusting Constantine, says something about the Romans churches validity as the Empires church. Constantine banished Arius at the church fathers request and had his books burned.
Not only does the Canon books deny this idea of trinity, but the gospels and Christian penned books that the catholics denied in Canon (to substantiate their ideas) were banned and all but destroyed along with many believers by the catholic priests.
To believe that they were Spirit led to do this, is another debate. Until then, the catholic priests made themselves celestial authority over man. The reign continues today.
74x12
Well-Known Member
So truth is relative? If someone's (so called) "truth" is that God isn't real then what?
I don't believe in relative truth. I believe that perspectives can change. But truth is constant. Perspective changes like someone viewing the same house from another side. But it's still the same house.
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
^
You just used Father, as a name. Contradiction to your argument.
/Also, of couse when Jesus is speaking, it infers that Jesus is speaking. Seems a arbitrary argument, generally.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I just read through the bible!
When folks begin to tell others what is nonsense in the bible, and what they are supposed to believe, then you can be sure that it's not true.
Jesus show how to pray to the father, his father..... he said 'OUR FATHER'. .,......... which part of that is hard to understand?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
You aren't presenting a coherent argument.
•Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'
That is the thread subject.
You didn't refute anything
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
What you wrote was nonsense. You argued that Jesus said to not pray to Him, Jesus.
Verse? Scriptural inference?
After we remove the fake Pharisaic texts of John, Paul, and Simon...
Then Yeshua's father according to the Synoptic Gospels is the Most High (El Elyon):
Luke 1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father, David,
Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing back; and your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil.
Take into account that Judaism of that time period no longer recognize the Most High existed; which is why Yeshua could say they don't know his father (Luke 10:22).
In my opinion.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I think that I am....
Yes, Jesus does.
Yahweh is the Israelite God, the God of the Jews, and Jesus recognised, supported and worshipped Yahweh.
And Jesus insisted that there could only be one God, one master:-
Mat {6:24} No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
And Jesus explained how his followers, the Jewish peasantry of Galilee and other provinces could pray to their Father, Yahweh, the Israelite God:
Mat {6:9} After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed
be thy name. {6:10} Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. {6:11} Give us this day our daily bread. {6:12} And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. {6:13} And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
No.......
Jesus didn't speak negatively, he spoke ;positively.
He was simply advising his group how to pray to their God, Yahweh.
It's all there, written down.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
After we remove the fake Pharisaic texts of John, Paul, and Simon...
Then Yeshua's father according to the Synoptic Gospels is the Most High (El Elyon):
Luke 1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father, David,
Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing back; and your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil.
Take into account that Judaism of that time period no longer recognize the Most High existed; which is why Yeshua could say they don't know his father (Luke 10:22).
In my opinion.
Thankyou for those verses, Wizanda.
How Christian Trinitarians cannot understand that the Roman and Greek cultures and Gods, along with others, were reversed into what would become the new religion, is just amazing.
And once reviewed in objective research it becomes clear that the gospels were meddled with to suit. I blame Paul, but his mate Luke and later the writer John were part of this deception as well. Christians even felt the need to edit Flavius Joseph's accounts.
But for many the glue has set...... solid.
Yeshua was the Right Arm of YHVH Elohim...
Which is why he said they had to love him more than family (Matthew 10:37), as he was an Avatar of YHVH.
YHVH's father is El Elyon (Deuteronomy 32:7-9).
YHVH told everyone in Hebrew within the Tanakh, that he'd become Yeshua:
H3444 + H1961 = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
In my opinion.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
If you are saying that 'Yahweh', is another name for Jehovah, therefore Jesus said to pray to 'Yahweh', then you are also inferring that Jesus said to pray to Himself, because Jesus, is called Adonay /Greek Adonai, which is considered to be a name for JHVH, cross language wise. This also infers that Jesus's name is JHVH, which we know, isn't your intent of argument.I think that I am....
Yes, Jesus does.
Yahweh is the Israelite God, the God of the Jews, and Jesus recognised, supported and worshipped Yahweh.
And Jesus insisted that there could only be one God, one master:-
Mat {6:24} No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
And Jesus explained how his followers, the Jewish peasantry of Galilee and other provinces could pray to their Father, Yahweh, the Israelite God:
Mat {6:9} After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed
be thy name. {6:10} Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. {6:11} Give us this day our daily bread. {6:12} And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. {6:13} And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
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dfnj
Well-Known Member
It wasn't from Greek.
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
With respect that definition wouldn't last 2 seconds in court. Just because you've been told its true, doesn't make it true, just because you believe it's true doesn't make it true. Can I encourage you to get a copy of: https://www.amazon.ca/Biblical-Literalism-Gentile-Christianity-Matthews/dp/0062362313