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Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

Nova2216

Active Member
Water baptism was only for Jesus, not you, I, or anybody else?

I think there were plenty of people who were baptized by John in water, just like there are plenty of people who have been baptized in holy spirit.



* I did not say the words "or anybody else", nor did I insinuate such a thing.

Johns baptism was for all of the Jews.(Mt.3:5,6)

Not you or I


5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.


I keep hearing you CLAIM people are still baptized in the Holy Spirit but we only have two recorded accounts of that happening. In both instances groups were baptized with the promise of the Lord and not individuals. (Acts 2) (Acts 10).

(Joel 2:28) and (Acts 2:16,17) = (Jews / Gentiles).

That makes up the "all flesh" spoke of by (Joel 2:28)

Not one verse verse ever commands all men to be holy Spirit baptized.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
You are partly right. The first part of John 1:33 does not help my case. But I never appealed to that as meaning we must be baptized in water. That is what you are saying, not me.

What significance to you attach to the word "but" in John 1:33? I think it means that what comes next is set in contrast and supercedes with what went before. In other words, baptism in water by John is set in rather stark contrast to baptism in holy spirit by Jesus. What do you think is the significance of the second half of the verse?

By the way, if we are going to stick with the logic that Acts 1:5 only applies to the Apostles, then wouldn't we have to say John 3:5 only applies to Nicodemus?



Context is everything.

In the text below the lesson is about ENTERING THE KINGDOM. That would include ANYONE who decides to go to heaven (not just Nichodemus). Notice the Lord used the word "he" and not "You" (Nichodenmus). Then the lord uses the words "a man" must be born again (not a baby and not just Nichodemus for he was grown).

I think you get the point..

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
I would like to ask a question. Why do we have to inherit sin? Everyone sins on his own. We are not responsible for anyone else's sin but our own. I do not get the "inherit" part.


(Ezekiel 18:20-24) 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I would like to ask a question. Why do we have to inherit sin? Everyone sins on his own. We are not responsible for anyone else's sin but our own. I do not get the "inherit" part.
I reckon this several ways. But I'll be brief. Realizing I believe in the Bible, I also believe death comes as a result of sin. And we all die. Adam and Eve did not have to die but they did what God warned them not to do. I thought about this a lot. Animals are different. Another thing is that imperfection and death is now in our DNA.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So far, so good.
Ok so far so good. That's good. Getting back to the baptism in water, the nation of Israel was supposed to be under God's law, in a covenant relationship with Him, right? (I'm slow so let's bear with each other.)
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
I would like to ask a question. Why do we have to inherit sin? Everyone sins on his own. We are not responsible for anyone else's sin but our own. I do not get the "inherit" part.
Read the first chapter of Genesis where God talks about "seed." Essentially the seed of something always produces the like kind. A dog seed (sperm) will always produce another dog, a cat seed (sperm) will always produce another cat, etc.

Adam became a sinner when he disobeyed God. What, then, would his offspring be? Another sinner. What do sinners do? They sin!

Put another way, we are not sinners because we commit sins. We commit sins because we are sinners. We are just acting out our nature. Dogs bark, cats meow, and sinners commit sins.

Our individual sins are not the problem. The problem is our sin nature, which we inherited from Adam.

Rom 5:12,

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Death was not in the world until Adam sinned. Unfortunately, we are all left to share the consequences.

The solution?

Rom 5:15,

But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
One man's sin makes us all sinners but one man's death (and resurrection) makes us all saints. Yeah Jesus!

The above also explains why Jesus was different than all other men. He did not inherit the same corrupted seed as all other men. Instead God miraculously implanted a brand new seed that did did not come from sinful man, but from God Himself. Of course it was up to Jesus to keep himself sinless by always obeying God, something Adam failed to do.

God bless.
 
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rrobs

Well-Known Member
Ok so far so good. That's good. Getting back to the baptism in water, the nation of Israel was supposed to be under God's law, in a covenant relationship with Him, right? (I'm slow so let's bear with each other.)
Still going good.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
* I did not say the words "or anybody else", nor did I insinuate such a thing.

Johns baptism was for all of the Jews.(Mt.3:5,6)

Not you or I


5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.


I keep hearing you CLAIM people are still baptized in the Holy Spirit but we only have two recorded accounts of that happening. In both instances groups were baptized with the promise of the Lord and not individuals. (Acts 2) (Acts 10).

(Joel 2:28) and (Acts 2:16,17) = (Jews / Gentiles).

That makes up the "all flesh" spoke of by (Joel 2:28)

Not one verse verse ever commands all men to be holy Spirit baptized.
Well, I think we've pretty much rung this thing out. Keep your water, but I think you're all wet! :) Just kidding.

I think you are a wonderful son of God, filled with holy spirit, and able to do the works Jesus did and more.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Context is everything.

In the text below the lesson is about ENTERING THE KINGDOM. That would include ANYONE who decides to go to heaven (not just Nichodemus). Notice the Lord used the word "he" and not "You" (Nichodenmus). Then the lord uses the words "a man" must be born again (not a baby and not just Nichodemus for he was grown).

I think you get the point..

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Yes, context is everything.

Acts 2:38-39,

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.​

What promise? Acts 1:5? If not, what is the promise?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Still going good.
So...God made a provision for them as a nation to obtain His forgiveness on the day of atonement. Ok I see I have to look more into this because I know Mary and Joseph did offer sacrifices. (Interesting, isn't it?)
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
So...God made a provision for them as a nation to obtain His forgiveness on the day of atonement. Ok I see I have to look more into this because I know Mary and Joseph did offer sacrifices. (Interesting, isn't it?)
Interesting is an understatement! It certainly is. I'll think about it also.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
So...God made a provision for them as a nation to obtain His forgiveness on the day of atonement. Ok I see I have to look more into this because I know Mary and Joseph did offer sacrifices. (Interesting, isn't it?)


Notice the word "PROMISE" in (Acts 2:39).----> It's to all the Lord "CALLS".

This "promise" (land / seed / nation) refers to one God made to Abraham in (Gen. Chapters 12 -16)


Part of his "promise" is mentioned in (Jer.31:31-34).

34 for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


It (the promise) would be the forgiveness of sins. (Acts 2:38)

Not the gift(S) (miraculous).

But GIFT (singular)

"GIFT" = "PROMISE" OF FORGIVENESS OF SINS. (Acts 2:38,39)
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I reckon this several ways. But I'll be brief. Realizing I believe in the Bible, I also believe death comes as a result of sin. And we all die. Adam and Eve did not have to die but they did what God warned them not to do. I thought about this a lot. Animals are different. Another thing is that imperfection and death is now in our DNA.
And I see it this way. We all die a physical death. Those that sin will die a spiritual death. We die physically because we are physical beings. We die spiritually because of our own sin. Not something we inherit.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Read the first chapter of Genesis where God talks about "seed." Essentially the seed of something always produces the like kind. A dog seed (sperm) will always produce another dog, a cat seed (sperm) will always produce another cat, etc.

Adam became a sinner when he disobeyed God. What, then, would his offspring be? Another sinner. What do sinners do? They sin!

Put another way, we are not sinners because we commit sins. We commit sins because we are sinners. We are just acting out our nature. Dogs bark, cats meow, and sinners commit sins.

Our individual sins are not the problem. The problem is our sin nature, which we inherited from Adam.

Rom 5:12,

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Death was not in the world until Adam sinned. Unfortunately, we are all left to share the consequences.

The solution?

Rom 5:15,

But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
One man's sin makes us all sinners but one man's death (and resurrection) makes us all saints. Yeah Jesus!

The above also explains why Jesus was different than all other men. He did not inherit the same corrupted seed as all other men. Instead God miraculously implanted a brand new seed that did did not come from sinful man, but from God Himself. Of course it was up to Jesus to keep himself sinless by always obeying God, something Adam failed to do.

God bless.
Two points. Science says animals evolve. So a dog may not always produce a dog and a cat may not always produce a cat. Second, if Adam cut off a finger, that does not mean thatt all his children would have nine fingers. This is not part of his original physical being. It is call an acquired trait. Just because Adam sinned does not mean all his children would sin. I do not sin because Adam sinned. I sin because of my own personal weakness. And maybe part of the problem is that no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions. Blame it on Adam. He sinned so I have no choice but to sin. Very questionable.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
(Ezekiel 18:20-24) 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
This is contradictory. The son shall NOT bear the inequity of the father but the wickedness of the wicked SHALL be upon him. Which is it?
 

Nova2216

Active Member
Yes, context is everything.

Acts 2:38-39,

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.​

What promise? Acts 1:5? If not, what is the promise?



*
Notice the word "PROMISE" in (Acts 2:39).----> It's to all the Lord "CALLS"

The Lord "CALLS" the sinners out of the world and into the kingdom of God (Body of Christ / The Church / In Christ) (Mark 16:15,16) (Mt.28:18-20) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3-6).

The (land / seed / nation) "PROMISE" refers to God blessing Abraham in (Gen. Chapters 12 -16)


Part of his "PROMISE" is mentioned in (Jer.31:31-34).

34 for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.(Heb.8:6-13)

This "PROMISE" would come through "THY SEED" (Gal.3:16)
(Gal.4:4)

"THY SEED" refers to Christ who died for our sins (Mt.26:28).

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

It (the PROMISE) would be the forgiveness of sins. (Acts2:38)

Not the gift(S) (miraculous).

But GIFT (singular)

"GIFT" = "PROMISE" OF FORGIVENESS OF SINS. (Acts 2:38,39) (Jer.31:31-34)
 
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Nova2216

Active Member
I read it very slowly. If I missed something maybe you could fill ne in.

I posted (Ezekiel 18:20) and I know the word of God does not contradict itself.

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


If I can be of any help let me know.


Thanks for posting.
 
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