Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

[Trailblazer]

Oh, you did not say it was the same man Jesus. But if you believe Acts 1:11 it says " this SAME man Jesus will so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven". Nothing about his spirit in another person. So you may say it is not the same Jesus but the Bible says it is.

Did you miss my other post? I still have my Word document open so here it is again:

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

As I said before, Bible verses can have more than one interpretation. I am well aware of these verses and I have discussed them at length with Christians for many years. As such, I already have an interpretation.

I believe that the disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven, in like manner.

The verse does not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God. He had the same Spirit of Jesus, so He was the Christ Spirit in another body.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Thank you but I have no reason to believe spirits can have other bodies. A man has a physical body and a spirit. That spirit belongs to that body. No offense intended but I cannot accept your interpretation. They saw Jesus go up to heaven and the same Jesus will come down from heaven.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you but I have no reason to believe spirits can have other bodies. A man has a physical body and a spirit. That spirit belongs to that body. No offense intended but I cannot accept your interpretation. They saw Jesus go up to heaven and the same Jesus will come down from heaven.

Yes, a man has a body and a spirit (soul). The the soul does not need the body to live. After we die, the soul leaves the body and takes its flight to the spiritual world and takes on another form made up of spiritual elements. Physical bodies cannot live in a spiritual world, so Jesus cannot have ascended to the spiritual world in a physical body.

We all have our beliefs, but hopefully they are based upon scripture, not just what we want to be true.
You can continue to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait for the same Jesus to return along with all the other Christians, in spite of the fact that Jesus never promised to return and in spite of the fact that all the Bible prophecies for the return of Christ have been fulfilled by Baha'u'llah, as explained in the book entitled Thief in the Night by William Sears.

 

[Nova2216]

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Yes, a man has a body and a spirit (soul). The the soul does not need the body to live. After we die, the soul leaves the body and takes its flight to the spiritual world and takes on another form made up of spiritual elements. Physical bodies cannot live in a spiritual world, so Jesus cannot have ascended to the spiritual world in a physical body.

We all have our beliefs, but hopefully they are based upon scripture, not just what we want to be true.
You can continue to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait for the same Jesus to return along with all the other Christians, in spite of the fact that Jesus never promised to return and in spite of the fact that all the Bible prophecies for the return of Christ have been fulfilled by Baha'u'llah, as explained in the book entitled Thief in the Night by William Sears.

Thank you. I respect your views and will continue to study the subject.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I agree with you on this but I still cannot accept the story of Lazarus and the poor man as showing that dead people are able to have feelings and communicate with others. You will have to come up with more proof on this subject.

 

[Nova2216]

I agree with you on this but I still cannot accept the story of Lazarus and the poor man as showing that dead people are able to have feelings and communicate with others. You will have to come up with more proof on this subject.

What does Luke 16:19-31 teach us?

Sadly you are asking something akin to what the rich man was asking.

Lu 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


His answer was listen to the teachers of Gods word. (Jn 5:39) (Acts 17:11) (1Cor.11:1)

You are rejecting Gods word (Jn 12:48). (not my thoughts)

 

[Nova2216]

I agree with you on this but I still cannot accept the story of Lazarus and the poor man as showing that dead people are able to have feelings and communicate with others. You will have to come up with more proof on this subject.

Do you not accept (Luke 16) as the word of God?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Do you not accept (Luke 16) as the word of God?

Please go back and read post 1010. I do not believe Luke 16 is a liter story. It may be a parable or fable and may teach a lesson. But I do not believe dead people feel emotions and can communicate with others. And my reason is that other verses in the Bible contradict the possibility of dead people behaving in this way. Jesus own words out of his mouth say that the dead know nothing. If you reject this then YOU are rejecting the word of God.

 

[Nova2216]

Please go back and read post 1010. I do not believe Luke 16 is a liter story. It may be a parable or fable and may teach a lesson. But I do not believe dead people feel emotions and can communicate with others. And my reason is that other verses in the Bible contradict the possibility of dead people behaving in this way. Jesus own words out of his mouth say that the dead know nothing. If you reject this then YOU are rejecting the word of God.

Is Luke 16 Gods word or not?

 

[Nova2216]

Please go back and read post 1010. I do not believe Luke 16 is a liter story. It may be a parable or fable and may teach a lesson. But I do not believe dead people feel emotions and can communicate with others. And my reason is that other verses in the Bible contradict the possibility of dead people behaving in this way. Jesus own words out of his mouth say that the dead know nothing. If you reject this then YOU are rejecting the word of God.

Did God lie in (Luke 16:19-31)?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Did God lie in (Luke 16:19-31)?

Well, you tell me, did God lie in Ecclesiastes 3:19 and 9:5 ? Both these verses indicate that dead people have no consciousness. They cannot feel or see or hear. Luke 16 may be a parable or fable which teaches a lesson but is not literally true. It is directly contradicted by Ecclesiastes.

 

[Trailblazer]

You guys are kind of fun to watch but I feel really bad that you disagree so much and cannot work it out....
Let me know if I can help.

 

[Nova2216]

Well, you tell me, did God lie in Ecclesiastes 3:19 and 9:5 ? Both these verses indicate that dead people have no consciousness. They cannot feel or see or hear. Luke 16 may be a parable or fable which teaches a lesson but is not literally true. It is directly contradicted by Ecclesiastes.

If it is true that Luke and Eccl. oppose one another then none of the bible can be trusted.

 

[Nova2216]

POST #1005
↑
Oh, I see, it is God who is confused according to you.

Eccl is speaking of the physical body. (under the sun / in the grave)

Luke 16 is speaking of the disembodied spirits of men who have been separated from their physical body.

This explanation allows these two passages to harmonize.
**************************************************************************************************************
Maybe it would have been easier if you had explained this earlier. Everyone does not understand things as well as you do.

#1005lostwanderingsoul, Monday at 10:35 AM

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

You guys are kind of fun to watch but I feel really bad that you disagree so much and cannot work it out....
Let me kn ow if I can help.

I also am having fun. Some people like to put their own meaning to words. When the Bible says that the dead know nothing they decides that only means their physical bodies, not their souls. But the is not what it says. And the Bible says that death is the same for an animal as for a person. But some say it really means death is different because some dead go th Abraham's bosom and some go somewhere else and animals go nowhere. I believe the Bible means what it says while some try to prove it means something different. I still respect your views and if you feel there is something you can add, please do so.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

POST #1005
↑
Oh, I see, it is God who is confused according to you.

Eccl is speaking of the physical body. (under the sun / in the grave)

Luke 16 is speaking of the disembodied spirits of men who have been separated from their physical body.

This explanation allows these two passages to harmonize.
**************************************************************************************************************
Maybe it would have been easier if you had explained this earlier. Everyone does not understand things as well as you do.

#1005lostwanderingsoul, Monday at 10:35 AM

Post 1005 was a joke. The is NOTHING in any of these verses that mentions physical bodies or disembodied spirits. The is nothing that says death means the spirit separates from the body. There is nothing that says some people go to Abraham's bosom except the fable in Luke. The Bible says that death is the same for people and animals and the dead know nothing. That is the big difference. I believe nothing means nothing. You believe nothing means something. Give me the Bible verse that says death means our spirit separates from our physical body.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe the Bible means what it says while some try to prove it means something different.

The Bible does not talk and SAY anything. People read the Bible and interpret the words they read on the page. The reason Christians do not agree on the meanings of the same verses is because they interpret the Bible differently. Because people have egos they believe that their meaning is the only correct meaning, and the beat goes on.

“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 175

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The Bible does not talk and SAY anything. People read the Bible and interpret the words they read on the page. The reason Christians do not agree on the meanings of the same verses is because they interpret the Bible differently. Because people have egos they believe that their meaning is the only correct meaning, and the beat goes on.

“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 175

Thank you. Those are wise words. But I believe we should trust the words in the Bible to mean what they say instead of trying to explain why they mean something different. Sure, I might have some interpretation wrong but I believe dead means dead and nothing means nothing. Other people try to prove that dead means something else and nothing means something.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you. Those are wise words. But I believe we should trust the words in the Bible to mean what they say instead of trying to explain why they mean something different. Sure, I might have some interpretation wrong but I believe dead means dead and nothing means nothing. Other people try to prove that dead means something else and nothing means something.

Bible interpretation is all about context.