Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

[lostwanderingsoul]

Not having eternal life means being spiritually dead.

I do not believe that hell is a place where people are thrown and destroyed. I believe that hell is separation from God. Whether it is eternal will depend upon whether God has mercy on that soul.

We are all free to believe what we want. I believe the words of the Bible mean what they say.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Have you ever wondered what is spiritual death in the Bible? This is an important question that affects every person ever born. Let’s answer three common questions people have about spiritual death in the Bible in this Ministry Minute with Kenneth Copeland.

1. What is Spiritual Death in the Bible?

Spiritual death is separation from God. When Adam disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, he became separated from God by sin (Genesis 3). Sin always separates mankind from God. Why? Because God is perfect and pure. Psalm 5:4 describes God this way: “For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee” (KJV). Sin is the opposite of everything He is.

Until Adam’s sin, he enjoyed a close relationship with God. God had created the Garden of Eden and placed Adam in it. The Lord then created a helpmeet for Adam. Scripture tells us that right before God confronted Adam for his sin Adam and Eve heard the Lord walking through the garden (Genesis 3:8). God was not distant but rather present and involved. Adam had never known a day without the Lord’s care and relationship. But then He sinned. From that point on, a division existed between humanity and God.

2. Has Everyone Experienced Spiritual Death?
Every person is born with a spirit that is separated from God, which Adam introduced way back in the Garden. Because of this nature, everyone is born separated from God. Romans 3:23 puts it like this: “For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.”

No one is exempt. Every person at some point has disobeyed, lied, made a selfish decision or acted opposite of God’s nature.

3. How did Jesus Remedy Our Spiritual Death?
This spiritual death is the reason why Jesus’ sacrifice was so necessary. Mankind could not pay the price for its sin. The Law proved this. No matter how hard we try, we could never be good enough to eliminate the spiritual death, the separation that existed between God and humanity. But Jesus was.

Second Corinthians 5:17 says, “For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.” Jesus paid the price, He rectified our spiritual death, so that we could live free from the bondage of sin. Through faith in Jesus, we enjoy the grace that Jesus paid to give us. We are no longer separated from God. Instead, we can have a relationship with Him while on earth and the assurance of living in heaven with Him for eternity.

Hopefully, you have a better understanding of spiritual death in the Bible. If you would like to experience what it is to come alive spiritually through Jesus Christ, then watch this video we have created to show you how to pray the prayer of salvation. And if you pray it, please let us know. Contact us through our website or call us at 1-800-600-7395 or 1-817-852-6000 to speak with one of our KCM Prayer Ministers. We want to celebrate with you and welcome you as a brother and sister in the Lord!

You don’t have to live spiritually dead any more. Through Jesus you can have spiritual life! Share this post with a friend who needs to know Jesus is the answer to spiritual death!

What Is Spiritual Death in the Bible? Ministry Minute - Kenneth Copeland Ministries Blog

I see three or four scriptures here and none of them say that all souls are immortal.

 

[Trailblazer]

We are all free to believe what we want. I believe the words of the Bible mean what they say.

I believe the words have to be interpreted and then they say different things to different people.
If the words said the same thing to everyone all Christians would agree as to what they mean, but they don't agree...

So whenever a Christian says that the words on the Bible speak for themselves and they mean what they say, what they are really saying is "I know what the words mean and they mean what they say to me." That is as much as saying that everyone who does not agree with me is wrong, and there is nowhere to go with that in a discussion, which is maybe why the discussion on this thread has not gone anywhere.

But if a person does not think logically, they will never understand this. They will just keep insisting that the Bible says things, which is logically impossible because a book does not talk and "say things." Rather, people read and interpret what the words mean to them.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see three or four scriptures here and none of them say that all souls are immortal.

And none of them say that all souls are not immortal.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

And none of them say that all souls are not immortal.

But MANY verses say they will die or be destroyed.

 

[Trailblazer]

But MANY verses say they will die or be destroyed.

Meaning they will be spiritually dead.

 

[Nova2216]

I have read your post very carefully. I think there is a lot that we agree on. Like I have said to Trailblazer, I think our difference is in "spiritual death". It seems that both of you believe that ALL souls (spirits) are immortal. I do not see this in the Bible. I see immortality as a GIFT from God. Some receive that gift and some do not. I do not see life and death as a matter of nearness to God or condition of the heart. I see spiritual death as the ending of that spirit's existence. I really do not see any way to proceed without resolving this question. Is there a resolution?

Many people have trouble distinguishing if a text is figurative or literal.

You my friend have this problem.

 

[Nova2216]

Have you ever wondered what is spiritual death in the Bible? This is an important question that affects every person ever born. Let’s answer three common questions people have about spiritual death in the Bible in this Ministry Minute with Kenneth Copeland.

1. What is Spiritual Death in the Bible?

Spiritual death is separation from God. When Adam disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, he became separated from God by sin (Genesis 3). Sin always separates mankind from God. Why? Because God is perfect and pure. Psalm 5:4 describes God this way: “For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee” (KJV). Sin is the opposite of everything He is.

Until Adam’s sin, he enjoyed a close relationship with God. God had created the Garden of Eden and placed Adam in it. The Lord then created a helpmeet for Adam. Scripture tells us that right before God confronted Adam for his sin Adam and Eve heard the Lord walking through the garden (Genesis 3:8). God was not distant but rather present and involved. Adam had never known a day without the Lord’s care and relationship. But then He sinned. From that point on, a division existed between humanity and God.

2. Has Everyone Experienced Spiritual Death?
Every person is born with a spirit that is separated from God, which Adam introduced way back in the Garden. Because of this nature, everyone is born separated from God. Romans 3:23 puts it like this: “For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.”

No one is exempt. Every person at some point has disobeyed, lied, made a selfish decision or acted opposite of God’s nature.

3. How did Jesus Remedy Our Spiritual Death?
This spiritual death is the reason why Jesus’ sacrifice was so necessary. Mankind could not pay the price for its sin. The Law proved this. No matter how hard we try, we could never be good enough to eliminate the spiritual death, the separation that existed between God and humanity. But Jesus was.

Second Corinthians 5:17 says, “For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.” Jesus paid the price, He rectified our spiritual death, so that we could live free from the bondage of sin. Through faith in Jesus, we enjoy the grace that Jesus paid to give us. We are no longer separated from God. Instead, we can have a relationship with Him while on earth and the assurance of living in heaven with Him for eternity.

Hopefully, you have a better understanding of spiritual death in the Bible. If you would like to experience what it is to come alive spiritually through Jesus Christ, then watch this video we have created to show you how to pray the prayer of salvation. And if you pray it, please let us know. Contact us through our website or call us at 1-800-600-7395 or 1-817-852-6000 to speak with one of our KCM Prayer Ministers. We want to celebrate with you and welcome you as a brother and sister in the Lord!

You don’t have to live spiritually dead any more. Through Jesus you can have spiritual life! Share this post with a friend who needs to know Jesus is the answer to spiritual death!

What Is Spiritual Death in the Bible? Ministry Minute - Kenneth Copeland Ministries Blog

I must disagree with #2.

The souls on man is given by God. (Eccl. 12)

Ps 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made:

 

[Trailblazer]

I must disagree with #2.

The souls on man is given by God. (Eccl. 12)

Ps 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made:

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I agree that God gave is us a soul, as that is in accordance with my beliefs. The passage below says the soul is a sign of God, and that means it was given to us by God since God created us with a soul. According to my beliefs the spirit as mentioned in Eccl 12:7 means the same thing as the soul.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

 

[Nova2216]

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I agree that God gave is us a soul, as that is in accordance with my beliefs. The passage below says the soul is a sign of God, and that means it was given to us by God since God created us with a soul. According to my beliefs the spirit as mentioned in Eccl 12:7 means the same thing as the soul.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

Maybe I should have mentioned not being born in sin.

Do Children Inherit the Sin of Their Parents?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I am so glad to see the two of you disagreeing. Leave me out for now.

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe I should have mentioned not being born in sin.

Do Children Inherit the Sin of Their Parents?

Oh, I was not sure what you were getting at what you said you must disagree with #2. I thought all Christians believed we were born in sin because I thought all Christians believe in original sin. I do not believe in original sin. I believe that we were all born good, made in the image of God, and it is after we are born and start living life that we differentiate ourselves. I believe we have two natures and free will so we can choose to be spiritual or materialistic, although that exists along a continuum.

“In man there are two natures; his spiritual or higher nature and his material or lower nature. In one he approaches God, in the other he lives for the world alone. Signs of both these natures are to be found in men. In his material aspect he expresses untruth, cruelty and injustice; all these are the outcome of his lower nature. The attributes of his Divine nature are shown forth in love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of his higher nature. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature, whereas all his imperfections and sinful actions are born of his material nature. If a man’s Divine nature dominates his human nature, we have a saint.” Paris Talks, p. 60

THE TWO NATURES IN MAN

 

[Muffled]

Is baptism something to consider?

I believe Baptism is an ordinance of the church. It is something the church does to acknowledge believers. of course there are benefits for the believer as well. A person can't simply believe and baptize himself.

 

[Muffled]

The problem with that belief is that Jesus never said that He would return and Jesus never said he would raise people from their graves; this is not in the New Testament at all. I hope to readdress this when I answer your other posts, but meanwhile:

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Finished means finished and it means that the mission of Jesus on earth was finished, so there is no reason for Jesus to ever return to earth. That is why Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Saying that we will see the Son of man in the clouds is not Jesus referring to Himself and it is not about the physical clouds in the sky. Note that Jesus never said "you will see ME coming in the clouds."

Then I ask you, do you want to hold a belief that is false? Do you want to wait for Jesus to return and raise you from your grave, if that is never going to happen, or do you want to know the truth about what is going to happen to you when you die?

So much for He never said it:
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

So much for not in the New Testament:
II Thes. 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

I believe I finished commenting on the first paragraph but that did not mean I couldn't comment on this one. I believe Jesus finished the work of redemption and gave us the gospel message but He has not yet rescued Israel from her attackers nor has He yet raptured His people. Just because two things are done does not mean there isn't more to do.

I believe "all will see Him" qualifies:
Rev 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

So much for He never said it:
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

So much for not in the New Testament:
II Thes. 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

I believe I finished commenting on the first paragraph but that did not mean I couldn't comment on this one. I believe Jesus finished the work of redemption and gave us the gospel message but He has not yet rescued Israel from her attackers nor has He yet raptured His people. Just because two things are done does not mean there isn't more to do.

I believe "all will see Him" qualifies:
Rev 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

You see, Trailblazer is one of those people who believe words can mean whatever you want them to mean. So when Jesus said he was coming back, that really meant he was NOT coming back. Just like when the Bible says the wicked will be burned up, that means they will NOT be burnedup. When you put your own meaning to words you can believe whatever you want.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe Baptism is an ordinance of the church. It is something the church does to acknowledge believers. of course there are benefits for the believer as well. A person can't simply believe and baptize himself.

So, I would really like to get your views on what will happen to people who are not saved. The Bible says they will be destroyed, burned up. But some people on here think that really means they will NOT be destroyed but will live forever separated from God. I cannot find anything in the Bible that says ALL souls are immortal. Immortality is something that is given to the saved. Those who do not receive immortality will die spiritually and those spirits will cease to exist, not suffer eternal torture. That is my opinion on what the Bible teaches. Any comments? I seem to be outnumbered on here and could use some help.

 

[Trailblazer]

So much for He never said it:
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

I will come again is not Jesus saying He will come to earth again.

Jesus will never come back to the world unless (1) Jesus lied or (2) the NT is in error. If Jesus lied then we cannot trust anything else Jesus said, and if the NT is in error then we cannot trust anything else that is written in the NT. there is no way around this.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Just because two things are done does not mean there isn't more to do.

There is plenty more to do, but Jesus is not the one who will do it because Jesus said the world will see me no more and I am no more in the world. Baha'u'llah already did what needed to be done and the rest of the work will be completed by the Baha'is who are following His counsels.

I believe "all will see Him" qualifies.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

I believe that verse refers to Baha'u'llah. He came with clouds.

The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that cloud our judgment and prevent us from seeing what is really there. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, the desires of men hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

Every eye will see Baha'u'llah in the future, after God magnifies His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.:

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

See how some people ignore the clear meaning of words? Jesus is coming back really means Jesus is not coming back. First you decide what you want to believe and then make the words mean what you want them to mean. I do it the other way. I see what the words say and then match my beliefs to that.

 

[Nova2216]

God is a spirit. (Jn 4:24)

We are Gods offspring. (Acts 17:28,29)

God is totally immortal. (1Tim.6:16)

God is Father of Spirits. (Heb.12:9)

Man is made of body and spirit; both mortal and immortal. (Eccl. 12:7) (Acts 7:59) (Luke 23:46)


Departed spirits still exist and are conscious.

(Mt.17:3)- Moses and Elijah

(1Sam.22)- Saul's spirit was brought forth and spoke

(Mt.22:32)- Abraham living; Jehovah is God of living

(Rev.6:9-11)- Souls of dead were seen to be alive.


Page #72


Traditions of Men Vs The Word of God
By Alvin Jennings

 

[Nova2216]

So, I would really like to get your views on what will happen to people who are not saved. The Bible says they will be destroyed, burned up. But some people on here think that really means they will NOT be destroyed but will live forever separated from God. I cannot find anything in the Bible that says ALL souls are immortal. Immortality is something that is given to the saved. Those who do not receive immortality will die spiritually and those spirits will cease to exist, not suffer eternal torture. That is my opinion on what the Bible teaches. Any comments? I seem to be outnumbered on here and could use some help.

(2Thess.1:7-9)

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;