Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

[Trailblazer]

Again, twisting words. John 14:3 Jesus own words, "if I go I will come again". So that somehow mean, "if I go I will NOT come again". WOW Talk about ignoring evidence in the Bible.

Jesus did not say my body will come again. The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not His physical body, and please note that Jesus did not ever say He would come again and DO anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on earth, as Christians believe.

Talk about ignoring evidence in the Bible, what about the word finished do you not understand?
What about I am no more in the world, do you not understand?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Jesus did not say my body will come again. The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not His physical body, and please note that Jesus did not ever say He would come again and DO anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on earth, as Christians believe.

Talk about ignoring evidence in the Bible, what about the word finished do you not understand?
What about I am no more in the world, do you not understand?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

OK I understand now. When Jesus said "I will come again" he was really saying "Baha'i will come" I guess one just has to understand the language. Like dead means not dead and burned up means not burned up.I just need the right dictionary that defines the words correctly.

 

[Trailblazer]

OK I understand now. When Jesus said "I will come again" he was really saying "Baha'i will come" I guess one just has to understand the language. Like dead means not dead and burned up means not burned up.I just need the right dictionary that defines the words correctly.

Okay, when Jesus says my work is finished and I am no more in the world does not mean finished and I am no more in the world.... I guess one just has to understand the language.

And where is Jesus? No more in the world, just as Jesus promised He would not be.

Anyone can hope for anything they want to hope for but that will never male their hopes come true.

Dead can mean physically dead or spiritually dead, depending upon the context.
Just as burned up can be metaphorical or literal.

 

[Muffled]

Okay, when Jesus says my work is finished and I am no more in the world does not mean finished and I am no more in the world.... I guess one just has to understand the language.

And where is Jesus? No more in the world, just as Jesus promised He would not be.

Anyone can hope for anything they want to hope for but that will never male their hopes come true.

Dead can mean physically dead or spiritually dead, depending upon the context.
Just as burned up can be metaphorical or literal.

I believe He will return in like manner in the way He left means He will return bodily.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe He will return in like manner in the way He left means He will return bodily.

I believe He will return in like manner in the way He left means He will not return in the same body.
I believe that it was the Spirit of Jesus Christ that ascended, not His physical body.
I believe that "in like manner" means that the Spirit of Christ would return just as it left.

Physical bodies do not float up into the sky to heaven and live there because heaven is not a physical place.

I believe that the Christ Spirit already returned in another body, and His name was Baha'u'llah, which means the Glory of God.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe He will return in like manner in the way He left means He will not return in the same body.
I believe that it was the Spirit of Jesus Christ that ascended, not His physical body.
I believe that "in like manner" means that the Spirit of Christ would return just as it left.

Physical bodies do not float up into the sky to heaven and live there because heaven is not a physical place.

I believe that the Christ Spirit already returned in another body, and His name was Baha'u'llah, which means the Glory of God.

Here we go again. "I" will return really means only my spirit will return and it will be in someone else's body. People SAW Christ rise into the sky so there must have been something physical for them to see. You do not think God is able to take a physical body anywhere He wants? Everyone is free to believe anything they want but do not claim what you believe is based on the Bible. It is based on the teachings of a human man who can make any kind of claims he wants but can prove none of it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Here we go again. "I" will return really means only my spirit will return and it will be in someone else's body. People SAW Christ rise into the sky so there must have been something physical for them to see. You do not think God is able to take a physical body anywhere He wants? Everyone is free to believe anything they want but do not claim what you believe is based on the Bible. It is based on the teachings of a human man who can make any kind of claims he wants but can prove none of it.

What I believe IS based upon the Bible, and it is my own interpretation of the Bible, based upon what I believe has already happened.

What you believe IS based upon the Bible, and it is your own interpretation of the Bible, based upon Church teachings, what Christians believe is going to happen.

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The disciples were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky and said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. It does not say that the disciples saw a body go up.

I believe that it was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

“But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 104-105

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

What I believe IS based upon the Bible, and it is my own interpretation of the Bible, based upon what I believe has already happened.

What you believe IS based upon the Bible, and it is your own interpretation of the Bible, based upon Church teachings, what Christians believe is going to happen.

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The disciples were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky and said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. It does not say that the disciples saw a body go up.

I believe that it was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

“But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 104-105

My beliefs are NOT based on church teachings. Most Christians would not agree with what I believe. I DO believe that words in the Bible make sense and saying that when Christ said he would return he meant his spirit would return in another body makes ZERO sense IMO What proof is there that this Bahai person descended of the will of God? His saying it? That does not count as proof to me. Many people say that they are God or Jesus. Most are insane.

 

[Trailblazer]

My beliefs are NOT based on church teachings. Most Christians would not agree with what I believe. I DO believe that words in the Bible make sense and saying that when Christ said he would return he meant his spirit would return in another body makes ZERO sense IMO What proof is there that this Bahai person descended of the will of God? His saying it? That does not count as proof to me. Many people say that they are God or Jesus. Most are insane.

Baha'u'llah did not say it, I said it, but it is based upon what He wrote about the meaning of the Son of man in the clouds. I can post that if you want to see it.

Most Christians do agree with you about Jesus ascending in the same body and returning in the same body.
What proof do you have that Jesus ascended and will return in the same body? You have no more proof than I have of my beliefs.

When Christ said he would return he meant his spirit would return in another body makes ZERO sense to you because you do not know what I know, what other Bible verses mean. You cannot determine what the return of Christ means with a few Bible verses from Acts 1. You need to look at all the verses and then it all fits together hand in glove.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Baha'u'llah did not say it, I said it, but it is based upon what He wrote about the meaning of the Son of man in the clouds. I can post that if you want to see it.

Most Christians do agree with you about Jesus ascending in the same body and returning in the same body.
What proof do you have that Jesus ascended and will return in the same body? You have no more proof than I have of my beliefs.

When Christ said he would return he meant his spirit would return in another body makes ZERO sense to you because you do not know what I know, what other Bible verses mean. You cannot determine what the return of Christ means with a few Bible verses from Acts 1. You need to look at all the verses and then it all fits together hand in glove.

And I certainly respect your right to believe whatever you want.

 

[Trailblazer]

And I certainly respect your right to believe whatever you want.

Thanks, I feel likewise.

 

[Muffled]

I believe He will return in like manner in the way He left means He will not return in the same body.
I believe that it was the Spirit of Jesus Christ that ascended, not His physical body.
I believe that "in like manner" means that the Spirit of Christ would return just as it left.

Physical bodies do not float up into the sky to heaven and live there because heaven is not a physical place.

I believe that the Christ Spirit already returned in another body, and His name was Baha'u'llah, which means the Glory of God.

I believe then you must have forgotten that Elijah was taken up in a fiery chariot. There are those who believe that alien craft can draw a person up to their ship. The fact is that witnesses saw Jesus physically ascend.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe then you must have forgotten that Elijah was taken up in a fiery chariot. There are those who believe that alien craft can draw a person up to their ship. The fact is that witnesses saw Jesus physically ascend.

What you don't understand is that trailblazer uses a different dictionary where words mean the opposite of what most people think. Jesus will return means Jesus will not return. When people saw Jesus physical body ascend to heaven means they did not see his physical body ascend to heaven. You have to have the right dictionary to know what the words mean.

 

[Trailblazer]

The fact is that witnesses saw Jesus physically ascend.

Show me any verses in the Bible that say that Jesus physically ascended.

 

[Trailblazer]

What you don't understand is that trailblazer uses a different dictionary where words mean the opposite of what most people think. Jesus will return means Jesus will not return.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say Jesus will return to earth, nowhere. In fact, it says that exact opposite.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

When people saw Jesus physical body ascend to heaven means they did not see his physical body ascend to heaven. You have to have the right dictionary to know what the words mean.

Show me any verse that says that the physical body of Jesus ascended.

You just assume it was the physical body they saw because you WANT to believe Jesus is coming back in the same physical body that ascended, but the Bible does not say Jesus is coming back, not anywhere.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say Jesus will return to earth, nowhere. In fact, it says that exact opposite.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Show me any verse that says that the physical body of Jesus ascended.

You just assume it was the physical body they saw because you WANT to believe Jesus is coming back in the same physical body that ascended, but the Bible does not say Jesus is coming back, not anywhere.

Well, one example, Acts 1:11tells us that "this SAME Jesus" will come "in like manner" as he was seen being taken up to heaven. But of course your dictionary says that "this SAME Jesus" means " somebody else" will come in his place. You are certainly welcome to use that dictionary but I will stick to the one with more realistic meanings.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, one example, Acts 1:11tells us that "this SAME Jesus" will come "in like manner" as he was seen being taken up to heaven. But of course your dictionary says that "this SAME Jesus" means " somebody else" will come in his place. You are certainly welcome to use that dictionary but I will stick to the one with more realistic meanings.

That is not Jesus saying He is coming back but let's look at it anyway.

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The verse does not say that the disciples saw the body of Jesus go up.
I believe it was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

I believe that the disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven, in like manner.

This same Jesus means the same spirit of Jesus, not the same body of Jesus because that body died on the cross.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the same spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The men of Galilee saw something ascend into the clouds. You cannot see a spirit so it must have been a physical body. Christ's physical body was not in the tomb, so where did it go? It ascended into the clouds and was seen by the men. But in your dictionary the same Jesus will return means that his spirit will return in some other body. I mean no disrespect to your Baha'u'llah but do you know how many people over the ages have claimed to be God or Jesus?

 

[Trailblazer]

The men of Galilee saw something ascend into the clouds. You cannot see a spirit so it must have been a physical body. Christ's physical body was not in the tomb, so where did it go? It ascended into the clouds and was seen by the men.

I do not believe in the resurrection stories in the Bible. Anyone can write stories but stories men wrote are not proof that the stories are true. Moreover, not all Christians believe in the bodily resurrection.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Please note that in the verses it does not say that the men of Galilee (the disciples) saw anything. The two men in white apparel (angels) who stood by the disciples saw something. Angels can see spirits, so that is what they saw ascend, the Christ Spirit.

This is just one verse and:

(a) It does not say that the physical body of Jesus ascended, and
(b) If it did mean that, it would contradict what Jesus said about being no more in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

But in your dictionary the same Jesus will return means that his spirit will return in some other body. I mean no disrespect to your Baha'u'llah but do you know how many people over the ages have claimed to be God or Jesus?

It is completely irrelevant how many people claimed to be God or Jesus because that does not mean that the Christ Spirit has not returned, as Jesus promised it would.

The prophecies for the return of Christ have all been fulfilled, and that alone is incontrovertible evidence that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ. Thief in the Night by William Sears

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I do not believe in the resurrection stories in the Bible. Anyone can write stories but stories men wrote are not proof that the stories are true. Moreover, not all Christians believe in the bodily resurrection.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Please note that in the verses it does not say that the men of Galilee (the disciples) saw anything. The two men in white apparel (angels) who stood by the disciples saw something. Angels can see spirits, so that is what they saw ascend, the Christ Spirit.

This is just one verse and:

(a) It does not say that the physical body of Jesus ascended, and
(b) If it did mean that, it would contradict what Jesus said about being no more in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

It is completely irrelevant how many people claimed to be God or Jesus because that does not mean that the Christ Spirit has not returned, as Jesus promised it would.

The prophecies for the return of Christ have all been fulfilled, and that alone is incontrovertible evidence that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ. Thief in the Night by William Sears

Thank you. Again I respect your right to believe what you want. I put my belief in the Bible and you put your belief in a book by William Sears.