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Jesus: The Missing Years in the East

godnotgod

Thou art That
Go on then....... tell me...... For whom were the Aramaic gospels written? Which language speakers? You're writing huge posts to others, so how about a one sentence answer to me?

Here is a quick answer to your question:


The name "Pe****ta" is Aramaic and means "straight",(the original and pure version of the targumic Scriptures). The Pe****ta is one of the oldest dated Biblical manuscripts in existence. Because it is a part of the Word of God preserved throughout the generations since the Apostles' time, it is a reliable and pure text, which contains the books in the Tanakh and the New Covenant Scriptures, as well as "Apocryphal" books, that were written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Aramaic dialects. Hebrew and Aramaic were the languages spoken by the Messiah and His Apostles in the First Century.

In short, the Pe****ta is a full targumic text on the Scriptures written in Hebrew and Aramaic.

The Pe****ta is an ancient copy of the original commentary on the Scriptures of the First Century Assembly in Aramaic and Hebrew. The original Pe****ta did not contain the books of 2 Peter (Keipha), 2 John (Yokhanan), 3 John and Jude (Yehuda). Nor did the original Pe****ta contain the book of Revelation, as it was never considered as a canonical book among various religious bodies in the east. These books were added later to the Pe****to (the edition of the targumic Scriptures as used by the Syriac Church translated from the Greek and Aramaic manuscripts). Neither will you find the story of the woman caught in adultery found in most English translations of the Greek text of John chapter 8.

Evidence indicates Pe****ta was before Greek New Testament - Topix
*****

Targum

The targumim (singular: "targum", Hebrew: תרגום‎), were spoken paraphrases, explanations, and expansions of the Jewish scriptures that a Rabbi would give in the common language of the listeners, which during the time of this practice was commonly, but not exclusively, Aramaic. This had become necessary near the end of the last century before the Christian era, as the common language was in transition and Hebrew was used for little more than schooling and worship.[1] Eventually it became necessary to give explanations and paraphrases in the common language after the Hebrew scripture was read. The noun Targum is derived from early semitic quadriliteral root 'trgm', and the term 'Targummanu' refers to "translator".[2] It occurs in the Hebrew Bible in Ezra 4:18 "The document which you sent us has been read in translation (Aramaic - 'mepares') before me".[2] Besides denoting the translations of the bible, the term Targum also denote the oral rendering of Bible lections in synagogue,[2] while the translator of the Bible was simply called as hammeturgem (he who translates). Other than the meaning "translate" the verb Tirgem also means "to explain".[2] The word Targum refers to "translation" and argumentation or "explanation." [2]
Writing down the targum was prohibited; nevertheless, some targumatic writings appeared as early as the middle of the first century CE.[1] These were not recognized as authoritative by the religious leaders at that time, however.[3] Some subsequent Jewish traditions (beginning with the Babylonian Jews) did accept the written targumim as authoritative, and eventually this became a matter of debate. Today, only Jews from the republic of Yemen continue to use the targumim liturgically.
As translations, the targumim largely reflect midrashic interpretation of the Tanakh from the time they were written, and are notable for eschewing anthropomorphisms in favor of allegorical readings.[4] (Maimonides, for one, notes this often in The Guide for the Perplexed.) This is true both for those targumim that are fairly literal, as well as for those that contain many midrashic expansions. In 1541, Elia Levita wrote and published Sefer Meturgeman, explaining all the Aramaic words found in the Targum.[5][6]
An Aramaic Bible is also used in the Syriac Church (see Pe****ta). In addition, targumim are used today as sources in text-critical editions of the Bible (BHS refers to them with the abbreviation ��).

Wikipedia
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Let's just make up the words as we go.

Could you imagine a commentator calling a hockey game, but his vocabulary had to come from the Kama Sutra?
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What I called 'rhyming', Younan is calling 'Line Parallelism'. The idea remains the same: deliberately structured phrasing.
You like non-mainstream outside-of-academia "scholars" who teach and preach as a living rather than devoting themselves to higher learning, correct? Kenneth Bailey spent years preaching in teaching in towns that fit the following description:
"In the south of Egypt, in the mountains of Lebanon, and in the isolated communities of upper Syria and Iraq, there are peasant communities which have lived in remarkable isolation from the rest of the world. It is not only their isolation that has enabled them to preserve ancient ways of life, however, but also that they regard changelessness as being of the highest value…This identity of value and changelessness has maintained itself in Middle Eastern peasant society through the centuries. Today, the finest compliment for a gentlemen in the village is ‘Hafiz al-taqalid’ (preserver of the customs)… Many villages are not connected to the outside world by any road. Access is on foot or by donkey. There is a town crier and a village weaver. Doors of streets are closed at night. A colloquial Arabic is spoken, which is sprinkled with Greek, Aramaic, Syriac, and even Akkadian words."

He wrote 2 (now jointly published) books Poet & Peasant and Through Peasant Eyes that constitute his own exegesis of NT prose and poetry based on his experience with villages he considers to be throwbacks to ancient times. Guess what we don't find in his works? Meaningless repeated words randomly selected and deemed "wordplay", "puns", or "rhymes". Guess what we do find? References to parallelisms. But wait? Baily used the Greek and an underlying Semitic influence to speak to these, not any Syriac manuscripts! Why? Because the Syriac manuscripts
1) Use Greek loan-words because (among other things) they are Greek translations
&
2) Are translations.
Here's a guy down in the dirt (metaphorically), way outside the ivory towers of academia, spending years with various Semitic speaking peoples that would make Lamsa jealous, and yet he doesn't resort to the nonsense your sources do. Why?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
"Whilst sucking on a donkey ear
We came upon a bowl of deer
And when my friend was full of beer
I peed on his guilded beard."

A translation by someone who has no clue what they are doing rhymes, so the church of lolipops is wrong all along.

Why weren't they paying attention when fools were making this up?

*Angellous castrates himself in a Dionysian rage*
Best friend laughs and says
*That's something that you can only do once*
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Exactly what the problem with the Greek translations are.
You can't read the Syriac text you promote or the Greek you deride. What on earth is the basis for the above? Didn't the fact that a source you relied on which blatantly lied about Matthew and Luke and who named Jesus provide any sort of lesson at all about why randomly accessed sources can't be trusted just because you want to believe them?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
You can't read the Syriac text you promote or the Greek you deride. What on earth is the basis for the above? Didn't the fact that a source you relied on which blatantly lied about Matthew and Luke and who named Jesus provide any sort of lesson at all about why randomly accessed sources can't be trusted just because you want to believe them?

That wouldn't be a problem if he could tell the difference between a good source and a bad source.

When the fundamental elements of the source's argument is off by say, a thousand years AND misunderstands basic mechanics of the language (like what a rhyme is) - one really doesn't need to be able to read Greek (or whatever) to know that something is off.

Nevermind - forget - neglect - ignore the FACT (for our friend) that the sole reason why a few NT scholars think that one book was originally in Aramaic is because of the little idioms that are present in the Greek are explained as carry overs from Aramaic.

Nevermind that nobody and their dog thinks that Paul wrote his letters in Aramaic.

Nevermind that nobody thinks that the Johannine school wrote their works in Aramaic.

Forget that the most ancient texts that we have are in Greek, and Aramaic and Coptic are secondary. (Now some text critics would want to take a giant dump on my head, because some Coptic texts are quite valuable)

Nevermind that several NT writers use a distinctly Greek vocabulary and syntax.

Forget everything. A circle is a nut, and I send my kids to the mechanic to get their teeth fixed.

*poops a whole litter of kittens*
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Wait. Paul rhymes! Rhyming means "to write words" in Syriac. Ergo, Paul was written in Aramaic.

OK, this is a damn beautiful post. But perhaps:

"Rhyming" in Aramaic means "to write words" in Syriac.

But really, it's all the same, right? I say potato, you say tomato.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Anything can happen. Boston just hit their second grand slam in the ALCS.

There is a God. And she's partying in Boston tonight.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
If youze guyz don't mind, from this point on, I am moving my part of the discussion re: Aramaic/Greek Primacy to here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ta-primacy-palistinian-prophet-why-jesus.html

in order to allow more breathing room for the main topic about Yeshua's alleged travels in the East.
 
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