Now if we can only get to me being read like a crappy book, it'll be progress.
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Jesus: The Missing Years in the East
- Thread starter godnotgod
- Start date
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
One can't "be" a metaphor. [Supporting your point]
Otherwise it wouldn't be a metaphor.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
One of the many ironies is that he's rejecting historical methods as "bias." Not one or two methods, but all of them.
He's unaware that academic historians are subject to a fairly brutal peer review, which is basically the scientific method of the humanities.
So metaphorically speaking, our friend is the creationist ranting on about something that is completely unfounded.
And the Aramaic is the Golden Tablets that only his source can read with the assistance of funny glasses.
One can in Egyptian German, not to mention Buddhist Semitic Anglo-Saxon. Clearly you haven't studied quantum historiography.
FYI- it's been proven by science that if you put "quantum" in front of some field or research area you make it better. That's why I only study quantum Aramaic primacy.
Semjase
Time traveller
This an excerpt from the Talmud of Jmmanuel , a very little known
text, translated from 2000 year old scrolls depicting the life
of Jesus that have been lost. These scrolls indicate the true name
of Jesus was Jmmanuel and that he survived the crucifixion
and went to live in India.
Quote
"Jmmanuel's Meetings With His Disciples 32. In the evening of the same day, the disciples were gathered in the room in the city where they had taken their last meal with Jmmanuel before Passover. 33. And they were in the room speaking to each other about what had happened that day when, behold, the door opened and a stranger entered whom they had never seen before. 34. And they were afraid that he might be one of the Israelites who wanted to betray them. 134 35. But then the stranger said, "Peace be with you:' and when he took the cloth from his face, they recognized him as Jmmanuel. 36. After he had said that, he showed them his hands, his loin and his feet; and when they saw his wounds, they were happy he was among them. 37. But Thomas believed a ghost to be in front of him. So he said, "If I could touch your wounds, I would know that you are not a ghost." 38. Then Jmmanuel said to him, "Reach out and place your hand on my wounds, so that you of small mind may recognize the truth:' 39. So Thomas did as he had been told, and he touched his wounds and said, "Truly, it is you." 40. Then Jmmanuel departed, saying, "Guard the secret of my return, so it will not be known that I am alive. 41. And behold, the next day the disciples set out for Galilee to spread the joyful news among Jmmanuel's supporters. 42. As other followers went along, behold, an itinerant joined them and for part of the way walked with them. 43. They were sad and talked among themselves about how Jmmanuel had been forced to die on the cross. 44. Then the itinerant, a stranger, said to them, "Why are you mourning?" And they told him what grieved them. 45. But the itinerant said, "How little knowledge you yet have; Jmmanuel told you he would rise from near- death after three days and nights. 46. "So just as he has said, it has happened." 47. After he had spoken he removed the cloth from his face and they recognized him as Jmmanuel. 48. But he said nothing more, and again covering his face, he withdrew. And he was not seen for a long time. 135 49. Long after Jmmanuel had disappeared, it came to pass that the disciples were fishing on the Sea of Tiberias, 50. and they caught nothing the entire night, so by daybreak they were exasperated. 51. And when they approached the shore, there stood a stranger who asked, "Haven't you anything to eat? I'm hungry." 52. They answered, "No, we have not caught one fish in our nets." 53. Then the stranger said, "Throw the net out to the right side of the boat, and you will have a large catch." 54. The disciples were astonished by what he said, but nevertheless cast the net. And behold, they could not pull it in because of the multitude of fish. 55. And they came ashore and prepared a meal, for like the stranger they, too, were hungry. 56. But when he uncovered his face, behold, it was Jmmanuel. 57. And while they were eating and in good spirits, he said to them, "Go to Galilee to such-and-such mountain; there I will join you, because our time together has ended and each of us may go his separate way." Chapter 32 Jmmanuel's Farewell 1. They went to the mountain to which Jmmanuel had directed them. 2. When they were gathered there, he said to them, "Behold, I will speak to you one last time; then I will leave and never return. 3. "My path leads me to the land of India where many of this human lineage also dwell, because they have left this land to live there."
There is strong evidence that supports the Talmud of Jmmanuel claim that Jesus
went India. Evidence also indicates that he died and was buried there, this is supported
by research as shown here
Quote
n his travels through Persia (today's Iran) Christ became known as Yuz Asaf (leader of the Healed). We know this because a Kashmiri historical document confirms that Isa (the Koranic name for Christ) was in fact also known as Yuz Asaf. The Jami - uf - Tamarik, Volume II, tells that Yuz Asaf visited Masslige, where he attended the grave of Shem, Noah's son. There are various other accounts such as Agha Mustafa's "Awhali Shahaii-i-paras" that tell of Yuz Asaf's travels and teachings all over Persia. It seems that Yuz Asaf blessed Afghanistan and Pakistan with his presence also. There are for example two plains in Eastern Afghanistan near Gazni and Galalabad, bearing the name of the prophet Yuz Asaf. Again in the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, Thomas says that he and Christ attended the Court of King Gundafor of Taxila (now Pakistan), in about 47AD, and that eventually both the King and his brother accepted Christ's teachings. Kersten claims that there are more than twenty one historical documents that bear witness to the existence of Jesus in Kashmir, where he was known also as Yuz Asaf and Issa. For example the Bhavishyat Mahapurana (volume 9 verses 17-32) contains an account of Issa-Masih (Jesus the Messiah). It describes Christ's arrival in the Kashmir region of India and his encounter with King Shalivahana, who ruled the Kushan area (39-50AD), and who entertained Christ as a guest for some time. {Christ's life in India, after the crucifixion, challenges current Church teachings at their very foundation. The theology of Saint Paul, the major influence on modern Christianity, is empty fanaticism in the light of this discovery.|
The historian Mullah Nadini (1413) also recounts a story of Yuz Asaf who was a contemporary to King Gopadatta, and confirms that he also used the name Issar, ie. Jesus. There is also much historical truth in the towns and villages of Northern India to prove that Jesus and his mother Mary spent time in the area. For instance, at the border of a small town called Mari, there is nearby a mountain called Pindi Point, upon which is an old tomb called Mai Mari da Asthan or "The final resting place of Mary". The tomb is said to be very old and local Muslims venerate it as the grave of Issa's (ie Christ's) Mother. The tomb itself is oriented East-West consistent with the Jewish tradition, despite the fact it is within a Muslim area. Assuming its antiquity, such a tomb could not be Hindu either since the Hindus contemporary to Christ cremated their dead and scattered their ashes as do Hindus today.
Following Christ's trail into Kashmir, 40km south of Srinagar, between the villages of Naugam and Nilmge is a meadow called Yuz-Marg (the meadow of Yuz Asaf, ie. Jesus). Then there is the sacred building called Aish Muqam, 60km south east of Srinagar and 12km from Bij Bihara. "Aish" says Kersten is derived from "Issa" and "Muqam" place of rest or repose. Within the Aish Muqam is a sacred relic called the 'Moses Rod' or the 'Jesus Rod', which local legend says, belonged to Moses himself. Christ is said to also have held it, perhaps to confirm his Mosaic heritage. Above the town of Srinagar is a temple known as "The Throne of Solomon", which dates back to at least 1000BC, which King Gopadatta had restored at about the same time as Christ's advent. The restoration was done by a Persian architect who personally left four inscriptions on the side steps of the temple. The third and fourth inscription read: "At this time Yuz Asaf announced his prophetic calling in Year 50 and 4" and "He is Jesus -- Prophet of the Sons of Israel"! Herein lies a powerful confirmation of Kersten's theory. Kersten suggests that Christ may have travelled to the South of India also, finally returning to Kashmir to die at the age of approximately 80 years. Christ's tomb, says Kersten, lies in Srinagar's old town in a building called Rozabal. "Rozabal" is an abbreviation of Rauza Bal, meaning "tomb of a prophet". At the entrance there is an inscription explaining that Yuz Asaf is buried along with another Moslem saint. Both have gravestones which are oriented in North-South direction, according to Moslem tradition. However, through a small opening the true burial chamber can be seen, in which there is the Sarcophagus of Yuz Asaf in East-West (Jewish) orientation!
According to Professor Hassnain, who has studied this tomb, there are carved footprints on the grave stones and when closely examined, carved images of a crucifix and a rosary. The footprints of Yuz Asaf have what appear to be scars represented on both feet, if one assumes that they are crucifixion scars, then their position is consistent with the scars shown in the Turin Shroud (left foot nailed over right). Crucifixion was not practised in Asia, so it is quite possible that they were inflicted elsewhere, such as the Middle East. The tomb is called by some as "Hazrat Issa Sahib" or "Tomb of the Lord Master Jesus". Ancient records acknowledge the existence of the tomb as long ago as 112AD. The Grand Mufti, a prominent Muslim Cleric, himself has confirmed that Hazrat Isa Sahib is indeed the tomb of Yuz Asaf!
Thus Kersten deduces that the tomb of Jesus Christ Himself is in Kashmir!
text, translated from 2000 year old scrolls depicting the life
of Jesus that have been lost. These scrolls indicate the true name
of Jesus was Jmmanuel and that he survived the crucifixion
and went to live in India.
Quote
"Jmmanuel's Meetings With His Disciples 32. In the evening of the same day, the disciples were gathered in the room in the city where they had taken their last meal with Jmmanuel before Passover. 33. And they were in the room speaking to each other about what had happened that day when, behold, the door opened and a stranger entered whom they had never seen before. 34. And they were afraid that he might be one of the Israelites who wanted to betray them. 134 35. But then the stranger said, "Peace be with you:' and when he took the cloth from his face, they recognized him as Jmmanuel. 36. After he had said that, he showed them his hands, his loin and his feet; and when they saw his wounds, they were happy he was among them. 37. But Thomas believed a ghost to be in front of him. So he said, "If I could touch your wounds, I would know that you are not a ghost." 38. Then Jmmanuel said to him, "Reach out and place your hand on my wounds, so that you of small mind may recognize the truth:' 39. So Thomas did as he had been told, and he touched his wounds and said, "Truly, it is you." 40. Then Jmmanuel departed, saying, "Guard the secret of my return, so it will not be known that I am alive. 41. And behold, the next day the disciples set out for Galilee to spread the joyful news among Jmmanuel's supporters. 42. As other followers went along, behold, an itinerant joined them and for part of the way walked with them. 43. They were sad and talked among themselves about how Jmmanuel had been forced to die on the cross. 44. Then the itinerant, a stranger, said to them, "Why are you mourning?" And they told him what grieved them. 45. But the itinerant said, "How little knowledge you yet have; Jmmanuel told you he would rise from near- death after three days and nights. 46. "So just as he has said, it has happened." 47. After he had spoken he removed the cloth from his face and they recognized him as Jmmanuel. 48. But he said nothing more, and again covering his face, he withdrew. And he was not seen for a long time. 135 49. Long after Jmmanuel had disappeared, it came to pass that the disciples were fishing on the Sea of Tiberias, 50. and they caught nothing the entire night, so by daybreak they were exasperated. 51. And when they approached the shore, there stood a stranger who asked, "Haven't you anything to eat? I'm hungry." 52. They answered, "No, we have not caught one fish in our nets." 53. Then the stranger said, "Throw the net out to the right side of the boat, and you will have a large catch." 54. The disciples were astonished by what he said, but nevertheless cast the net. And behold, they could not pull it in because of the multitude of fish. 55. And they came ashore and prepared a meal, for like the stranger they, too, were hungry. 56. But when he uncovered his face, behold, it was Jmmanuel. 57. And while they were eating and in good spirits, he said to them, "Go to Galilee to such-and-such mountain; there I will join you, because our time together has ended and each of us may go his separate way." Chapter 32 Jmmanuel's Farewell 1. They went to the mountain to which Jmmanuel had directed them. 2. When they were gathered there, he said to them, "Behold, I will speak to you one last time; then I will leave and never return. 3. "My path leads me to the land of India where many of this human lineage also dwell, because they have left this land to live there."
There is strong evidence that supports the Talmud of Jmmanuel claim that Jesus
went India. Evidence also indicates that he died and was buried there, this is supported
by research as shown here
Quote
n his travels through Persia (today's Iran) Christ became known as Yuz Asaf (leader of the Healed). We know this because a Kashmiri historical document confirms that Isa (the Koranic name for Christ) was in fact also known as Yuz Asaf. The Jami - uf - Tamarik, Volume II, tells that Yuz Asaf visited Masslige, where he attended the grave of Shem, Noah's son. There are various other accounts such as Agha Mustafa's "Awhali Shahaii-i-paras" that tell of Yuz Asaf's travels and teachings all over Persia. It seems that Yuz Asaf blessed Afghanistan and Pakistan with his presence also. There are for example two plains in Eastern Afghanistan near Gazni and Galalabad, bearing the name of the prophet Yuz Asaf. Again in the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, Thomas says that he and Christ attended the Court of King Gundafor of Taxila (now Pakistan), in about 47AD, and that eventually both the King and his brother accepted Christ's teachings. Kersten claims that there are more than twenty one historical documents that bear witness to the existence of Jesus in Kashmir, where he was known also as Yuz Asaf and Issa. For example the Bhavishyat Mahapurana (volume 9 verses 17-32) contains an account of Issa-Masih (Jesus the Messiah). It describes Christ's arrival in the Kashmir region of India and his encounter with King Shalivahana, who ruled the Kushan area (39-50AD), and who entertained Christ as a guest for some time. {Christ's life in India, after the crucifixion, challenges current Church teachings at their very foundation. The theology of Saint Paul, the major influence on modern Christianity, is empty fanaticism in the light of this discovery.|
The historian Mullah Nadini (1413) also recounts a story of Yuz Asaf who was a contemporary to King Gopadatta, and confirms that he also used the name Issar, ie. Jesus. There is also much historical truth in the towns and villages of Northern India to prove that Jesus and his mother Mary spent time in the area. For instance, at the border of a small town called Mari, there is nearby a mountain called Pindi Point, upon which is an old tomb called Mai Mari da Asthan or "The final resting place of Mary". The tomb is said to be very old and local Muslims venerate it as the grave of Issa's (ie Christ's) Mother. The tomb itself is oriented East-West consistent with the Jewish tradition, despite the fact it is within a Muslim area. Assuming its antiquity, such a tomb could not be Hindu either since the Hindus contemporary to Christ cremated their dead and scattered their ashes as do Hindus today.
Following Christ's trail into Kashmir, 40km south of Srinagar, between the villages of Naugam and Nilmge is a meadow called Yuz-Marg (the meadow of Yuz Asaf, ie. Jesus). Then there is the sacred building called Aish Muqam, 60km south east of Srinagar and 12km from Bij Bihara. "Aish" says Kersten is derived from "Issa" and "Muqam" place of rest or repose. Within the Aish Muqam is a sacred relic called the 'Moses Rod' or the 'Jesus Rod', which local legend says, belonged to Moses himself. Christ is said to also have held it, perhaps to confirm his Mosaic heritage. Above the town of Srinagar is a temple known as "The Throne of Solomon", which dates back to at least 1000BC, which King Gopadatta had restored at about the same time as Christ's advent. The restoration was done by a Persian architect who personally left four inscriptions on the side steps of the temple. The third and fourth inscription read: "At this time Yuz Asaf announced his prophetic calling in Year 50 and 4" and "He is Jesus -- Prophet of the Sons of Israel"! Herein lies a powerful confirmation of Kersten's theory. Kersten suggests that Christ may have travelled to the South of India also, finally returning to Kashmir to die at the age of approximately 80 years. Christ's tomb, says Kersten, lies in Srinagar's old town in a building called Rozabal. "Rozabal" is an abbreviation of Rauza Bal, meaning "tomb of a prophet". At the entrance there is an inscription explaining that Yuz Asaf is buried along with another Moslem saint. Both have gravestones which are oriented in North-South direction, according to Moslem tradition. However, through a small opening the true burial chamber can be seen, in which there is the Sarcophagus of Yuz Asaf in East-West (Jewish) orientation!
According to Professor Hassnain, who has studied this tomb, there are carved footprints on the grave stones and when closely examined, carved images of a crucifix and a rosary. The footprints of Yuz Asaf have what appear to be scars represented on both feet, if one assumes that they are crucifixion scars, then their position is consistent with the scars shown in the Turin Shroud (left foot nailed over right). Crucifixion was not practised in Asia, so it is quite possible that they were inflicted elsewhere, such as the Middle East. The tomb is called by some as "Hazrat Issa Sahib" or "Tomb of the Lord Master Jesus". Ancient records acknowledge the existence of the tomb as long ago as 112AD. The Grand Mufti, a prominent Muslim Cleric, himself has confirmed that Hazrat Isa Sahib is indeed the tomb of Yuz Asaf!
Thus Kersten deduces that the tomb of Jesus Christ Himself is in Kashmir!
wrong.
Shermana
Heretic
I guess this James Deardorff guy who endorses Bill Meier's "findings" got pretty bored with Oceanography.
Shermana
Heretic
Matthew-TJ Verse Comparisons, Mt 5
This has to be the lamest new age attempt to rewrite the "Original gospels" I've seen yet.
This has to be the lamest new age attempt to rewrite the "Original gospels" I've seen yet.
Way to jinx it, man! Now we'll actually see a worse attempt and it will be your fault. Couldn't you have even typed "knock on wood" or something to prevent superstitious catastrophe?
godnotgod
Thou art That
Shermana
Heretic
Maybe I can jump on this grenade before anyone else gets their hands on it.
I'll produce a document called "The Yetzer of Jsu" (The inclination of Yeshua), and I'll market it as the ORIGINAL Q document. But I'm gonna need someone who knows the intricacies of the Aramaic language to maintain an aura of authenticity, that's where you come in Legion. Don't worry, this will all be done anonymously.
We'll market it as "leaked from Catholic monks from the Vatican library who prefer to remain anonymous".
I'll produce a document called "The Yetzer of Jsu" (The inclination of Yeshua), and I'll market it as the ORIGINAL Q document. But I'm gonna need someone who knows the intricacies of the Aramaic language to maintain an aura of authenticity, that's where you come in Legion. Don't worry, this will all be done anonymously.
We'll market it as "leaked from Catholic monks from the Vatican library who prefer to remain anonymous".
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Do either sound like any language Jesus spoke? No. Transliteration is more about standards than accuracy. I first learned to speak ancient Greek like a modern Greek speaker (e.g. b's like v's). I know now after study the differences between many a modern pronunciation of various ancient languages and what we know of the actual pronunciation. Transliteration doesn't follow strict pronunciation at all. Had you any ability to evaluate your own sources you'd have known this.
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Had you PM'ed me or others before posting this, we'd all have been billionaires. Nice going Sherlock.
Semjase
Time traveller
According to this research Jesus name was a fabrication
Quote
"[FONT=Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Times]Today many Christians and others assume that the Greek name Jesus was the original name of the Savior who was Hebrew. If one does the research, one finds out that it is impossible for the Saviors name to be Jesus.
What is the intent of this article?
The intent of this article is to investigate the origin of the Greek name Jesus and its erroneous transliteration of the Hebrew name of our Savior Yahshua. Our Saviours Name in Hebrew is
This name Jesus commonly used in Christianity
today did not exist and would not be spelled with the letter J until about 500 years ago. This article will also discuss the grammatical errors involved in the transliteration of Yahshua into Greek and Latin, which radically changed the form of Yahshuas name."This quote from the Talmud of Jmmanuel, Jmmanuel says
"
[/FONT]The False Teachings Of Saul 30. When Jmmanuel had finished this speech, behold, a man named Saul approached him and said, 31. "Y ou preach a new teaching, and it has been strange to me from the beginning; it seems silly to me, and your mind appears confused." 32. But Jmmanuel said, "How can you tell me that I am confused in mind when it is you who are confused in consciousness and do not understand? 33. "Truly, I say to you, though you are Saul, and you persecute me and my disciples because of my teachings, you will change your mind. 34. "Hereafter you shall be named Paul. You shall travel in every direction and make amends for having called my teachings false and my spirit confused. 35. "Y ou will load great guilt upon yourself, for in your ignorance you will misunderstand my teachings and will therefore preach them incorrectly. 36. "Y our speech will be confused, and people throughout the world will be enslaved by it and will worship the false doctrine. 37. "Just as you will bind the land of the Greeks to an evil religious cult because of your false teachings, so you will call me "the Anointed" in their language. 38. "It will be your fault, due to your lack of understanding, that they will call me Jesus Christ, which means 'the Anointed.'
That isn't research.
Shermana
Heretic
Well, uh....wait. I can delete it! If anyone screen shots this, we can just claim they're fabricating evidence against us because they don't want the truth getting out! We'll just say they're agents of the Vatican. Or we can pay them off, that works too.
You're first idea was brilliant, and then you follow it up with "pay them off"? Seriously? If I didn't need you as an "idea guy" I'd totally fire you right now. And don't even think about replacing me with one of the millions of people who could provide what you need to make millions
nash8
Da man, when I walk thru!
A wise man once told me that Mithraism was popular amongst the Roman Legions, can you provide a description of the type of Mithraism that was practiced by Roman soldiers around the time of Jesus, maybe just slightly prior to during his ministry?
Can you state aspects of Mithraism that might have been included into what we view as modern Christianity.
From my perspective, it would seem prudent to make the state religion of Rome acceptable to the soldiers of Rome. Since Christianity has a history of adopting other ideologies into it's own, it would make sense to me that the ideology of the soldiers would be #1 on the ole' to-do list.
Which particular Pagan groups claimed Christian thought pre-dated Christianity and why?
Wiki says that some guy named Ulansey states that the Roman "bully slaying" form of Mithra was worshipped in Rome, 1st century B.C. Are you trying to tell me that Wiki is lying to me? My whole world is beginning to crumble.
Mithraic mysteries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So can you compare and contrast Pre-Christian Mitra, Bull Slaying Mithra, and later worship of Mithra post the formulation of Christianity?
It shouldn't match "sabachtani" because the word for destiny, helqa/helqwt or, in Aramaic, חלשׁ/helesh, isn't the word in the "Aramaic" (Syriac) NT here. The word in Mark and Matthew is a verb, not a noun (ܫܒܩ
Is their a form of "sabachtani" or any other word in Greek, Syria or any other language which the earliest Gospels could have been written in that meant "to leave for a purpose" instead of just to leave?
I think that's what GodnotGod is saying here, at the least it's how I view it. That once Christianity became more prominent within Rome, especially post-Constantine, that it would have been very plausible that Mithric ideas were "merged" into Christianity, where none such existed in the original form of Christianity.
What is the date of the earliest papyri that we have regarding the euachrist?
Sounds to me like ole' John held the traditional stoic idea that the Logos was tha animating principle of the universe, and that animating principle was in actuallity, photonic energy and/or the light. What can I say, great minds think alike.
The Word is just a representation of the animating principle of the universe, how can you safely assume that it actually is light, or for that matter, that others assumed that light was the animating principle of the universe as well?
Are their any references that Stoic cosmology could have viewed the Logos as a Light-like substance?
So it was kinda like the Logos manifested into light, since light was life, and the Logos transformed into material flesh which equals life? So essentially the word became light?
How would Stoic philosophers viewed the change in attributes from the Logos incarnate as opposed to the Logos pre-carnation? Would the Logos incarnated still have been viewed with "deietic qualities"?
Why is the Logos the Light? The Logos is actually an animating principle. Like I said earlier, one can assume it is light, which I do, but how can you assume that those who wrote the Gospels, viewed it in the same manor as you?
So their are no other transcripts that use a word that meant "left at specific place", instead of just plain left?
LMAO, that's a intricate pwn right there sir. Are you trying to imply that books hold more knowledge than the all-powerful internet? Don't make me and my fellow internet followers declare a Jihad on you.
I know there's a popular catchphrase that goes _________ makes it better, but I can't remember it for the life of me. What is it that "makes it better"?