IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Not at all. My logic is quite simple and consistent: forgiveness REQUIRES repentance, and one cannot possibly repent of a sin that is in the future and thus they are unaware of.
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Jesus thought polygamy is OK!
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
Your logic may be simple and consistent (according to you, but ANYONE can say that) but you are wrong.
Forgiveness is an accomplished FACT. In (sinless) Christ. ALL SINS ARE FORGIVEN. (Past, present, and future.)
"Forgiveness requires repentance" is legalism.
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Why do you think John the Baptizer said, "Look, the Lamb of God WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD"? John 1:39. He didn't say partially takes away; he didn't say just some sin, and he definitely didn't qualify it by saying past, present, but not future!
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IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No more a legalism than this statement of yours below.
I suspect you are going what some Christians do, and simply throwing around the accusation of legalism because you think its a bad thing, so anyone you label as legalistic is a bad person.
John baptised for REPENTANCE.
Matthew 3:1-2, 6:
"In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea and saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.' ... Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River."
Mark 1:4:
"And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins."
Luke 3:3:
"He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins."
Are you okay???
So, John the Baptizer said that baptism was for repentance -- because the promised Messiah was about to appear and people need to "clean up their act" in preparation.
Why are you going on about legalistic? It is not a bad thing -> for the unsaved <- who require the law.
Christians are NOT under the law! We are dead to the law and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Now, start making sense or the discussion is over. Capiche?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Was there something that made you think otherwise? The tone of my post was pretty matter of fact. It didn't really have any emotional content. One word was in bold to emphasize it, but didn't imply any emotion. So?
You still haven't explained how someone can repent for a sin they don't even know they will commit.
You were the one who brought up legalism, and actually misused the term. Legalism refers to a strict adherence to the letter of the law or rules, often at the expense of the spirit or intent behind them. My remark said nothing at all about the Law, and neither did yours, which is why I said that my remark was as legalistic as yours (since they both weren't).
The only point I made was that repentance is necessary for forgiveness, and that no one can repent of a sin they don't even know they will commit. Thus it is impossible for God (or anyone else) to forgive for future sins.
I am still waiting for a coherent response to this, not some tangent into another topic like the Law.
Right back at ya.
Do you actually not understand? You seem capable of doing so. What is the problem?
=> REPENTANCE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR FORGIVENESS <=
Here is what Ephesians 2:4-8 says. Read it carefully!
"... but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which He loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ -- by grace you have been saved -- and raised us with him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God -- not the result of works, so that no one may boast.
I don't see the word "repentance" here. Why not? Because then being in Christ Jesus would require some act, thereby making it an obligation of God, negating His gift. Salvation is NOT THE RESULT OF WORKS. IT IS THE FREE => GIFT <= OF GOD.
Repentance is a "work" that compels God to forgive.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
This is a wedding banquet and not the honeymoon. This scenario is more like the reality TV show "The Bachelor". The would be groom has ten virgins to choose from, all who wish to marry him. He will meet them all, and then decide whom he wishes to marry. Even King Solomon, who had 700 wives and 300 concubines, did not marry ten at a time. He would focus on one at time, and then have another wedding ceremony. He was rich and could throw another wedding and invite all the guests.
In the case of the parable, all the wannabe brides are virgins, and have maintain that aspect of their duty. But not all are fully prepared for the wedding day, since some still need the lamp oil. Those who are fully conscious with desire and proactively, get in, before the door closes. This was the first test and thins the herd.
This parable is similar to the sensible slave, who needs to be ready for his master's return. He is sensible and does not assume his master will not come for a long time and be caught off guard. Instead, he is always prepared and is ready, and gains a great reward. In the case of the virgin chosen, she becomes a princess with her son someday the new King. The prize is worth it so she is the best prepared.
Taking away the sins of the world refers to the scapegoat of Leviticus 16. Jesus was both the goat and the scapegoat.
The wedding ceremony was not at all like what you describe! The ten women are not "wannabe brides"! They are friends of the bride, who are with her and have the task of watching for the groom's arrival. He comes to retrieve his "fiancee" and begin the wedding ceremony.
The groom absolutely is NOT choosing one of the ten friends to be his bride!
Nope. The scapegoat was driven into the wilderness annually to bear the peoples' sins.
Jesus was (and is) "the lamb of God" who takes away the sins of the world -- once. He voluntarily gave His life to pay the price for all sins for all time.
Which means we should quit scapegoating.
Believe what you want. I believe what the Bible clearly says. It is sad that you can't or won't understand the truth.
Forgiveness does NOT require repentance. That is legalism and denies God's grace.
ALL SIN -- PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE -- HAS BEEN FORGIVEN BY THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS.
Acts 10:43, "About him all the prophets testify, that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." There is NO REPENTANCE required.
Ephesians 1:7, "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our offenses, according to the riches of his grace".
Colossians 2:13, "And even though you were dead in your transgressions and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he nevertheless made you alive with him, having forgiven all your transgressions."
1 John 2:12, "I am writing to you, little children, that your sins have been forgiven because of his name."
If you don't believe what the Bible clearly says about forgiveness of sins, there is nothing I can do about it.
John is not Jesus. And there is more than one kind of baptism. Why can't you accept what the Bible says instead of trying to find out-of-context exceptions???
Why is your mind closed to the truth? NOBODY IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS. FORGIVENESS IS A GIFT FROM GOD. A gift!!!
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
LOL It was YOU that brought up John the Baptist:
"Why do you think John the Baptizer said, "Look, the Lamb of God WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD"? John 1:39. He didn't say partially takes away; he didn't say just some sin, and he definitely didn't qualify it by saying past, present, but not future!"
If you don't want to discuss John, don't bring him up.
I find it arrogant when people lack the insight that they make mistakes, and that perhaps even the beliefs they hold most dear might be wrong. I know I always have a flag up in the back of my mind that I might be wrong. So I simply can't relate to your belief that someone could never possibly have a legitimate reason why they disagree with you.
As to your remark the "Nobody is justified by works" (which you place in all caps for emphasis), it is directly contradicted by your own Bible. I'm simply going to post the verse, and then let your fellow Christians discuss it with you.
James 2:24
"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The main theme of the Tanakh is Obey, and when you stumble, Repent, and then Obey some more.
However, you may be more moved by what your New Testament says:
Acts 2: 38
"And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." "
I think you have to make a choice here. Either you can concede that repentance is necessary for forgiveness, or you can concede that you think the New Testament has errors.
You are misusing word legalism.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The problem? I listen carefully to you, and I understand your arguments, but I do not find you convincing.
John was testifying about who Jesus was. That has nothing to do with repentance. Jesus takes away the sin of the world!
Does your opinion about arrogance apply to yourself or just others?
BTW, don't post a part of the Bible if you don't understand it. You look foolish!
You are really confused. You clearly don't understand Christian doctrine.
The Tanakh is based on God's law, but Christ fulfilled all the requirements of the law, so it doesn't apply to those of us who have accepted Yeshuah Hamashiach as our Savior. He took the punishment for our sin; repentance for forgiveness would be hypocritical.
BTW, God's word (the Bible written almost exclusively by Jews) is error-free.
You clearly do NOT understand my arguments. If you did, you would accept Yeshua, who fulfilled ALL the law's requirements, as your Savior.