jewish

[1213]

Is there a quote from Jesus where he speaks about God's law written on the heart?

I don't think Jesus says it directly with the same words. But the same idea comes from how person should be born anew, become righteous and get the Holy Spirit. When that happens, person has the law written in his "heart". Here are the scriptures that tells how and what it means:

I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, [Greek Parakleton: Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, and Comfortor.] that he may be with you forever,- the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive; for it doesn't see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you.
John 14:16-17

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.
John 14:26

When the Counselor [Greek Parakletos: Counselor, Helper, Advocate, Intercessor, and Comfortor.] has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will testify about me.
John 15:26

However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
John 16:13

Jesus answered him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can't see the Kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
John 3:3-7

But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

 

[dybmh]

By what Jesus tells, people should become righteous, and God's law should be written to their heart. I think that was the idea also before Jesus was on earth.

Is there a quote from Jesus where he speaks about God's law written on the heart?

I don't think Jesus says it directly with the same words. But the same idea comes from how person should be born anew, become righteous and get the Holy Spirit. When that happens, person has the law written in his "heart".

I agree, the directive to be righteous can be found in Tanach. But the method is completely new. Being born anew and receiving the Holy Spirit are innovations brought by Jesus.

Jesus answered him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can't see the Kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'

This ^^ is a new law. Not Jewish.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

This is a completely new concept, Not Jewish.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I've never met any Jews that think he was a black magician.

And I wouldn't say many Jews believe he is the messiah -- only a teeny tiny proportion of us are so misled.

I have met some.

And it's a shame more Jews today aren't Messianic, since He fulfilled hundreds of Tanakh prophecies.

 

[Harel13]

I've never met any Jews that think he was a black magician.

At your service.
My view of him is a bit more complicated and nuanced than that, but I suppose you could say that that is the gist of the view.

 

[1213]

I agree, the directive to be righteous can be found in Tanach. But the method is completely new. Being born anew and receiving the Holy Spirit are innovations brought by Jesus.

In that case, please explain what do you think it means when persons "heart is circumcised"?

Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live...
Deuteronomy 30:6-9

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:10-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Do you agree that the circumcision of heart is a Jewish idea?

This ^^ is a new law. Not Jewish.

Why do you think it is a law?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I have met some.

And it's a shame more Jews today aren't Messianic, since He fulfilled hundreds of Tanakh prophecies.

There aren't "hundreds of Tanakh prophecies." There are actually only a handful, and he didn't fulifll most of them. The thing is, there only has to be one prophecy that he didn't fulfill for him to be excluded from being the messiah.

 

[dybmh]

In that case, please explain what do you think it means when persons "heart is circumcised"?

It means that the heart will become more sensitive, less coarse. The occluding spiritual layers will be removed and discarded.

Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live...
Deuteronomy 30:6-9

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:10-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

There's nothing here about receiving the Holy Spirit or being born anew. As I said, those were innovations from Jesus. Why not allow Christianity to take credit for these two ideas?

Do you agree that the circumcision of heart is a Jewish idea?

Yes, definitely

Jesus answered him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can't see the Kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
John 3:3-7

This ^^ is a new law. Not Jewish.

Why do you think it is a law?

Because Jesus says, "Most assuredly" twice. If it's assured, I would think it would be a law, otherwise it would not be assured that someone *must* be born anew of water and spirit to enter the Kingdom of God.

 

[1213]

It means that the heart will become more sensitive, less coarse. The occluding spiritual layers will be removed and discarded.

There's nothing here about receiving the Holy Spirit or being born anew. As I said, those were innovations from Jesus. Why not allow Christianity to take credit for these two ideas? ...

In Bible (Deu. 30:6-8) the circumcision of heart means: "to love Yahweh your God with all your heart,... ...You shall return and obey the voice of Yahweh, and do all his commandments which I command you this day."

I don't see that happening without the Holy Spirit. But, in any case, the result should be that one loves God with all his heart and obeys the commandments God gave.

 

[dybmh]

In Bible (Deu. 30:6-8) the circumcision of heart means: "to love Yahweh your God with all your heart,... ...You shall return and obey the voice of Yahweh, and do all his commandments which I command you this day."

I don't see that happening without the Holy Spirit. But, in any case, the result should be that one loves God with all his heart and obeys the commandments God gave.

If you look at the verses in context, starting at 30:1, there is a whole list of events that contribute to the return of the Jewish people to loving God and following the commandments. The Holy Spirit is not mentioned.

 

[BilliardsBall]

There aren't "hundreds of Tanakh prophecies." There are actually only a handful, and he didn't fulifll most of them. The thing is, there only has to be one prophecy that he didn't fulfill for him to be excluded from being the messiah.

1) Not "a handful" but hundreds--but it has been the work of apologists to discredit many prophecies, making, for example, a beautiful prophecy of Hezekiah "to us a SON is given" though Hezekiah was already nine years old when the prophecy was made!

2) Yeshua fulfilled hundreds of prophecies of His first advent, more remain to be fulfilled upon His glorious return.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

1) Not "a handful" but hundreds--but it has been the work of apologists to discredit many prophecies, making, for example, a beautiful prophecy of Hezekiah "to us a SON is given" though Hezekiah was already nine years old when the prophecy was made!

2) Yeshua fulfilled hundreds of prophecies of His first advent, more remain to be fulfilled upon His glorious return.

No, sir, there are definitely not "hundreds" of messianic prophecies.

Like I said, Christians have a habit of pulling verses out of context and manufacturing these so-called prophecies where none exists.

Isaiah 9:6 (for unto us a child is born ... ) is a good example of this Christian game. It's actually about King Hezekiah, but Christians want to insist that it is about the messiah.

So I see that you ADMIT that Jesus didn't fulfill all the prophecies. Fine. When he does, THEN you can come to me and say he is the messiah. Not before.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, sir, there are definitely not "hundreds" of messianic prophecies.

Like I said, Christians have a habit of pulling verses out of context and manufacturing these so-called prophecies where none exists.

Isaiah 9:6 (for unto us a child is born ... ) is a good example of this Christian game. It's actually about King Hezekiah, but Christians want to insist that it is about the messiah.

So I see that you ADMIT that Jesus didn't fulfill all the prophecies. Fine. When he does, THEN you can come to me and say he is the messiah. Not before.

1) Isaiah cannot be speaking of Hezekiah--the "child is [to be] born" was made when he was 9 years old! He was not eternal father nor prince of peace (there was war between Hezekiah and Syria), etc., etc.

2) You cannot have it both ways--first you say "few Messianic prophecies" and now you say "Yeshua fulfilled hundreds of prophecies but not other prophecies so He's not Messiah".

A key prophecy(s) that will help you, there would be time between the Messiah's visits so countless numbers of people could be saved.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

1) Isaiah cannot be speaking of Hezekiah--the "child is [to be] born" was made when he was 9 years old! He was not eternal father nor prince of peace (there was war between Hezekiah and Syria), etc., etc.

2) You cannot have it both ways--first you say "few Messianic prophecies" and now you say "Yeshua fulfilled hundreds of prophecies but not other prophecies so He's not Messiah".

I dont' know where you think this is going, but its predicting the future. Its written in past tense:

For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." (Stone Tanakh, Isaiah 9:6)

 

[BilliardsBall]

I dont' know where you think this is going, but its predicting the future. Its written in past tense:

For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." (Stone Tanakh, Isaiah 9:6)

You'd need to touch base with every other translator except Stone, I guess.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You'd need to touch base with every other translator except Stone, I guess.

Christian translators, when it comes to this verse, lean very heavily on the poor Greek translation. The Hebrew absolutely is not future tense.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Christian translators, when it comes to this verse, lean very heavily on the poor Greek translation. The Hebrew absolutely is not future tense.

Luckily, Jesus also fulfilled this past tense prophecy.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Luckily, Jesus also fulfilled this past tense prophecy.

If it's past tense, it's not a prophecy. And it's about King Hezekiah, not the messiah.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If it's past tense, it's not a prophecy. And it's about King Hezekiah, not the messiah.

And again, you have to hundreds, possibly thousands, of Tanakh verses, and make them not about Messiah, to avoid making Jesus the obvious Messiah.

Who is regarded worldwide as the Prince of Peace, for example? Secular Jews know it's Jesus Christ as regarded by the Gentiles, and most secular Jews don't know who King Hezekiah was!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Who is regarded worldwide as the Prince of Peace, for example? Secular Jews know it's Jesus Christ as regarded by the Gentiles, and most secular Jews don't know who King Hezekiah was!

That you find this 'argument' to be anything other than silly is a miracle in and of itself.

 

[rosends]

And again, you have to hundreds, possibly thousands, of Tanakh verses, and make them not about Messiah, to avoid making Jesus the obvious Messiah.

Who is regarded worldwide as the Prince of Peace, for example? Secular Jews know it's Jesus Christ as regarded by the Gentiles, and most secular Jews don't know who King Hezekiah was!

So you are basing your argument on your assessment of what "secular Jews know"?
I can find plenty of secular Jews who know nothing of the sort. I can also find secular Jews who know who Hezekiah was. Therefore your argument collapses. I really feel that if you want to build a belief system, relying on your personal assumption about what other people "know" is not the best route.