Jordan Peterson and Bill Maher...

[stvdv]

Won't deny that, for sure. It is the sharp edge of freedom. But let's keep freedom as a priority.

Definitely I agree with that
Since Covid they tried to curb our freedom
Sadly for their personal gain
I am no fan of that

 

[Shadow Wolf]

T

Definitely I agree with that
Since Covid they tried to curb our freedom
Sadly for their personal gain
I am no fan of that

They did not try to curb your freedom and since the world has moved on as it was before.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And yet, is it just as offensive to force someone to say something they don't want to say? Why is offense only a one way street? I can't offend you but your cna offend me?

Here's my question, why do we have to "force" people to address and converse with others with dignity and respect?

 

[YmirGF]

T

They did not try to curb your freedom and since the world has moved on as it was before.

I wore a mask because 1) it was mandated in my area for a period of time 2) even though I was completely unaffected by Covid-19, I didn't want to risk infecting others, so I kept my distancing and wore my fricken mask.

I never felt, for a second, that my "freedom" was imperilled, in any way.
Imho, it's a bit of a weird way to look at the pandemic.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Here's my question, why do we have to "force" people to address and converse with others with dignity and respect?

Nobody's forcing anybody -- that's why there are so many free ******** in society freely doing ******* stuff. And plenty of those people are crying over the consequences of how they treat others. Those who expect to live their lives entirely without consequences for their actions are living in a childish fantasy.

Here's my question: What kind of people feel that they have to be "forced" to treat others with dignity and respect? It should come naturally to naturally decent people.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Nobody's forcing anybody -- that's why there are so many free ******** in society freely doing ******* stuff. And plenty of those people are crying over the consequences of how they treat others. Those who expect to live their lives entirely without consequences for their actions are living in a childish fantasy.

Here's my question: What kind of people feel that they have to be "forced" to treat others with dignity and respect? It should come naturally to naturally decent people.

Agreed. That was my point as well.

 

[YmirGF]

What kind of people feel that they have to be "forced" to treat others with dignity and respect?

You know, @Rachel Rugelach if I came across some of these highly unusual folks I have seen hundreds of videos of, I would feel compassion for them. Depending on how they present, I may even use the appropriate pronouns. If they did not present in a clearly identifiable way, I would likely morph my language into more general terms because they aren't helping things here. The biggest factor in how I would react is how aggressively they presented. Is it rude to say, "Hello, whatever you are?"

It should come naturally to naturally decent people.

Indeed, and I believe it does, in most cases. At the risk of getting my knackers shot off, my transgender friend Selena stated in a couple of our discussions that she felt the narrative that the trans community faces so much oppression simply did not jive with her personal experience. She said she ran into more problems when she was a sex-worker than she ever did as a trans woman. She lives in a relatively small town, too. Again, one person's perception who has skin in the game. Not saying there is no oppression, btw, just that it may be overblown, like so much these days is due to so much emotional reasoning going on. *Curses on Paulo Freire*

 

[Father Heathen]

Definitely I agree with that
Since Covid they tried to curb our freedom
Sadly for their personal gain
I am no fan of that

So public health and safety isn't a legitimate concern?

How do you feel about seatbelts, helmets, stop signs, traffic, lights, speed limits, etc.?
What about employers in the food industry who require their employees to wash their hands?
What about hospitals requiring surgeons to wear masks?

 

[Father Heathen]

I wore a mask because 1) it was mandated in my area for a period of time 2) even though I was completely unaffected by Covid-19, I didn't want to risk infecting others, so I kept my distancing and wore my fricken mask.

I never felt, for a second, that my "freedom" was imperilled, in any way.
Imho, it's a bit of a weird way to look at the pandemic.

It seems like many on the right, at least in America, tend to concoct cockamamie conspiracy theories whenever they're inconvenienced by something, be it a pandemic, climate change, etc.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Here's my question, why do we have to "force" people to address and converse with others with dignity and respect?

That is because humanity is somewhat evil and is usually in a state of denial about how much evil is evil. It is a comfort to remain unaware and thermodynamically efficient not to think. Too much thinking costs calories. Honestly, how many people are willing to push through a serious board game? Thats a measure of how energy efficient our thinking is. We don't think if we aren't motivated to.

Try interrupting people who are doing something. See how it annoys them? Its because you are costing calories.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

You know, @Rachel Rugelach if I came across some of these highly unusual folks I have seen hundreds of videos of, I would feel compassion for them. Depending on how they present, I may even use the appropriate pronouns. If they did not present in a clearly identifiable way, I would likely morph my language into more general terms because they aren't helping things here. The biggest factor in how I would react is how aggressively they presented. Is it rude to say, "Hello, whatever you are?"

Indeed, and I believe it does, in most cases. At the risk of getting my knackers shot off, my transgender friend Selena stated in a couple of our discussions that she felt the narrative that the trans community faces so much oppression simply did not jive with her personal experience. She said she ran into more problems when she was a sex-worker than she ever did as a trans woman. She lives in a relatively small town, too. Again, one person's perception who has skin in the game. Not saying there is no oppression, btw, just that it may be overblown, like so much these days is due to so much emotional reasoning going on. *Curses on Paulo Freire*

I don't think we always can (or even should) judge others by our own experiences. Perhaps your friend Selena has been more fortunate in her personal experiences than others may have been in theirs. She can rightfully feel happy about her own experiences, but that is no reason to think that others have been as fortunate as she has been, or to dismiss their pain as being somehow unfounded.

Having said that, I think that we can at least treat others by how certain things make us feel. In answer to your question: "Is it rude to say, 'Hello, whatever you are?'", I try to go by the teaching of the great rabbi known as Hillel the Elder, who lived at the end of the first century B.C.E.: "What is hateful to you, do not do to another person." (I don't always succeed in following this, but I try.) Would you find it rude if someone were to say to you: "Hello, whatever you are?"

 

[YmirGF]

I don't think we always can (or even should) judge others by our own experiences. Perhaps your friend Selena has been more fortunate in her personal experiences than others may have been in theirs. She can rightfully feel happy about her own experiences, but that is no reason to think that others have been as fortunate as she has been, or to dismiss their pain as being somehow unfounded.

Having said that, I think that we can at least treat others by how certain things make us feel. In answer to your question: "Is it rude to say, 'Hello, whatever you are?'", I try to go by the teaching of the great rabbi known as Hillel the Elder, who lived at the end of the first century B.C.E.: "What is hateful to you, do not do to another person." (I don't always succeed in following this, but I try.) Would you find it rude if someone were to say to you: "Hello, whatever you are?"

I actually quite like the good rabbi's thinking and largely agree. To your point.

If someone were to say to me, "Hello, whatever you are." I would instantly realize that this person has some issues because I am a clearly identifiable as human male. So, for someone to say that to me, I would understand they were not being serious nor should I take them seriously.

You know, I am just going to say this. If one dresses up like a clown and presents in a highly ambiguous manner, they should expect to be treated like a clown. Why on Earth SHOULD I play along with their personal internal drama?

Frankly, I think we have taken the "be respectful thing" a little far. It would be fascinating to hear what the good rabbi had to say about the people I am talking about because they sure were not around when he was. I'm guessing he was a fairly conservative fellow by modern standards.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

I actually quite like the good rabbi's thinking and largely agree. To your point.

If someone were to say to me, "Hello, whatever you are." I would instantly realize that this person has some issues because I am a clearly identifiable as human male. So, for someone to say that to me, I would understand they were not being serious nor should I take them seriously.

You know, I am just going to say this. If one dresses up like a clown and presents in a highly ambiguous manner, they should expect to be treated like a clown. Why on Earth SHOULD I play along with their personal internal drama?

Frankly, I think we have taken the "be respectful thing" a little far. It would be fascinating to hear what the good rabbi had to say about the people I am talking about because they sure were not around when he was. I'm guessing he was a fairly conservative fellow by modern standards.

I don't know about that... If I came across someone "dressed up like a clown" I would see that as an expression of joy -- not an expression of "their personal internal drama." I might be inclined to chat with them, and thereby get to know them better.

And Rabbi Hillel was not at all "a fairly conservative fellow." He was sometimes at friendly odds with one of his contemporaries, another rabbi named Shammai (who tended to be more religiously strict). We Jews tend to argue a lot amongst ourselves, and I think that helps to keep things in balance.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't know about that... If I came across someone "dressed up like a clown" I would see that as an expression of joy -- not an expression of "their personal internal drama." I might be inclined to chat with them, and thereby get to know them better.

But, you also likely know, I am not meaning someone who presents as a literal clown. That would be quite a different situation, and I would instantly apprehend that situation correctly, as there would be zero doubt in my mind this person was dressed up in a comical manner.

In the more ambiguous cases, I might feel empathy for the individual and think, "Good god, what happened to you?"
Serious question: Is nothing "off-putting" these days? Have we entered the era of "anything goes"?

And Rabbi Hillel was not at all "a fairly conservative fellow." He was sometimes at friendly odds with one of his contemporaries, another rabbi named Shammai (who tended to be more religiously strict). We Jews tend to argue a lot amongst ourselves, and I think that helps to keep things in balance.

Thanks.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

But, you also likely know, I am not meaning someone who presents as a literal clown. That would be quite a different situation, and I would instantly apprehend that situation correctly, as there would be zero doubt in my mind this person was dressed up in a comical manner.

In the more ambiguous cases, I might feel empathy for the individual and think, "Good god, what happened to you?"
Serious question: Is nothing "off-putting" these days? Have we entered the era of "anything goes"?

Thanks.

I don't know about the era of "anything goes" because I plan to live in the era of wonder -- looking for something wonderful in my experiences with others rather than looking for something negative.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wore a mask because 1) it was mandated in my area for a period of time 2) even though I was completely unaffected by Covid-19, I didn't want to risk infecting others, so I kept my distancing and wore my fricken mask.

I never felt, for a second, that my "freedom41" was imperilled, in any way.
Imho, it's a bit of a weird way to look at the pandemic.

Yup. It was a time when our actions very heavily effected others and the careless and irresponsible were are severe threat to others by endangering the lives and wellbeing of others and leaving out covid can do way more damage than just kill.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't know about the era of "anything goes" because I plan to live in the era of wonder -- looking for something wonderful in my experiences with others rather than looking for something negative.

I am privileged to live in an area surrounded by natural wonder. I have horses in the field next to my house and there are no neighbour houses around to spoil the views. So, I do get what you are saying and happily give your sentiment two enthusiastic thumbs up.

You see, you see wonder... I see a potential mental health crisis coming like we have never seen before, and cannot express this more clearly. I do hope you are right, and I am the one who is ultimately wrong.

 

[Kenny]

Here's my question, why do we have to "force" people to address and converse with others with dignity and respect?

That's the point... why do they have to "force" people to use certain pronouns to have a conversation... Could you imagine if I said to you, "SkepticeThinker, if you are going to write me or talk to me please refer me as "Jesus, you are my Lord and Savior" - because that's who I believe is my name and that is what I identify with.

 

[YmirGF]

That's the point... why do they have to "force" people to use certain pronouns to have a conversation... Could you imagine if I said to you, "SkepticeThinker, if you are going to write me or talk to me please refer me as "Jesus, you are my Lord and Savior" - because that's who I believe is my name and that is what I identify with.

It is interesting that I took one look at this and thought, "Now you are just being silly" but that is also the point. How far are we supposed to take this?

 

[Kenny]

It is interesting that I took one look at this and thought, "Now you are just being silly" but that is also the point. How far are we supposed to take this?

I think that is the point that people are dealing with. They have gotten tired of the silliness behind the effort. The school is suppose to give an education... not submit to a seesaw of "what I feel like I am today" situation. It is just plain silly,.