Jordanian court has begun blasphemy proceedings against Danish artist Kurt Westergaard

[Gharib]

Why don't you ask the donkey?



"They were Arabs and not Muslims"... so Arabs can't be Muslim?
"Arabs don't represent Islam"... they were certainly purporting to be representatives of Islam.

BTW ... wasn't Muhammad an Arab?


So? Was he provoked by Muslims or not?


I know; I was just grasping at straws to figure out some way that your statement wouldn't be hypocritical.


So... were those Muslims who beat up the lecturer wrong? Were the men who conspired to kill Westergaard wrong?


You've given an argument that implies it. You can choose to accept the implication, retract the argument, or take a hypocritical position.


No, it's not.

It's the freedom for you to believe as you wish and worship as you wish without being prevented from doing so, and it's the freedom not to be forced to worship in a way you disagree with. Ridicule doesn't prevent you from exercising your faith.

1. arabs and arabs with a 'muslim' name do not necessarily represent islam or are muslims.
2. where are your links to those stories about what muslims did (links to those crimes) that let the cartoonist to draw what he did?

 

[lunakilo]

2. where are your links to those stories about what muslims did (links to those crimes) that let the cartoonist to draw what he did?

Why I drew the cartoon: The 'Muhammad Affair' in retrospect

"In light of what has later been claimed about Jyllands-Posten’s intentions to deliberately and gratuitously offend 1.2 billion Muslims, I should point out that the paper’s rationale was a far different one. In the months leading up to the publication of the cartoons, Islamists had launched one attack on Danish free speech after another. A well-known author had been unable to find an artist who would dare to illustrate a children’s book on Muhammad. A concert was stopped by radical Muslims who claimed that music is un-Islamic. The culmination came when a lecturer of Jewish descent at Copenhagen University was abducted in broad daylight by a gang of Arabs and severely beaten for having recited from the Koran as part of his course. Nothing similar had happened during the university’s more than 525 years of history."

 

[waitasec]

who here has argued that God got offended by this?

so if you claim your god isn't offended...why should you be?

 

[McBell]

wow, you asked a question and amazingly you also answered it. well done A+ to you.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[beenie]

Reading this has made me quite sad, to be honest.
All I've gotten from this whole discussion is that to be a "good" Muslim I have to agree that Westergaard must be punished because Muslims were offended. To me, to be offended gives these people (who insult religion, cultures, etc.) exactly what they are looking for.

Until someone convinces me there is a bonafide reason for punishing this person, I stand by my original post. I care about Allah, I care about the Prophet, I DON'T care, however, what Westergaard thinks of Islam.

Perhaps if we Muslims take the higher ground about this matter, perhaps again in the form of boycotting, etc., (and not threaten to kill him), it will give Westergaard and the like less to insult.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Its like those kids in the playground who don't share their ball. "If I can't play with my ball, no one else can!"

 

[waitasec]

Perhaps if we Muslims take the higher ground about this matter, perhaps again in the form of boycotting, etc., (and not threaten to kill him), it will give Westergaard and the like less to insult.

that is honorable way to go...funny enough though this posture you are taking on is what i think separates the boys from the men, so to speak, and it has absolutely nothing to do with religion, or god for that matter, it has to do with being the best person you can be...

 

[waitasec]

thats just your opinion, opinions aren't facts.

but aren't you reacting to opinion as if they were facts?
:yes:

it would be better to say it is understandable of muslims to be angry because low lives like that man should focus on other important topics like world hunger rather than insult people.

read the quote that lead the cartoonist to draw what he did...

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Ok, it looks like I must break Shabbat to make a proclamation. eselam's and Bismillah's posts are not to be argued against. I cite Rule 14. Again, Rule 14 forbids one to argue with eselam and Bismillah.

 

[Gharib]

Why I drew the cartoon: The 'Muhammad Affair' in retrospect

"In light of what has later been claimed about Jyllands-Posten’s intentions to deliberately and gratuitously offend 1.2 billion Muslims, I should point out that the paper’s rationale was a far different one. In the months leading up to the publication of the cartoons, Islamists had launched one attack on Danish free speech after another. A well-known author had been unable to find an artist who would dare to illustrate a children’s book on Muhammad. A concert was stopped by radical Muslims who claimed that music is un-Islamic. The culmination came when a lecturer of Jewish descent at Copenhagen University was abducted in broad daylight by a gang of Arabs and severely beaten for having recited from the Koran as part of his course. Nothing similar had happened during the university’s more than 525 years of history."

no thats not the link i'm after, 9-10ths Penguin already posted that, i mean links that speak of those crimes listed as Westegaards reasons for making the cartoons.

 

[Gharib]

so if you claim your god isn't offended...why should you be?

you tell me why i shouldn't and then we might get somewhere.
i have already given many examples why muslims became angry at the cartoons.

 

[darkendless]

you tell me why i shouldn't and then we might get somewhere.
i have already given many examples why muslims became angry at the cartoons.

But getting angry basically demonstrates to the world how potentially harmful your religion can be.

Watching millions of muslims get angry over a cartoon won't exactly win over the western world.

Get over it, let people enjoy their freedom of speech as you enjoy.

 

[Gharib]

Reading this has made me quite sad, to be honest.
All I've gotten from this whole discussion is that to be a "good" Muslim I have to agree that Westergaard must be punished because Muslims were offended. To me, to be offended gives these people (who insult religion, cultures, etc.) exactly what they are looking for.

Until someone convinces me there is a bonafide reason for punishing this person, I stand by my original post. I care about Allah, I care about the Prophet, I DON'T care, however, what Westergaard thinks of Islam.

Perhaps if we Muslims take the higher ground about this matter, perhaps again in the form of boycotting, etc., (and not threaten to kill him), it will give Westergaard and the like less to insult.

there are certain things that require backlash and certain things that don't.
his images, if you or anyone else hasn't heard already, depict our prophet as a terrorist with a bomb on his head. so he is making false accusations about islam and remember what you said, slander is a very bad thing.

why are muslims blamed for over reacting and why isn't he blamed for crossing the line? it is one thing to insult muslims for what they have done which was wrong (which he claims is the reason behind the drawings) and it is a dirrefent thing to call muslims terrorist with no evidence whatsoever and then wave the freedom of speech flag to cover up his main intent.

 

[Gharib]

But getting angry basically demonstrates to the world how potentially harmful your religion can be.

Watching millions of muslims get angry over a cartoon won't exactly win over the western world.

Get over it, let people enjoy their freedom of speech as you enjoy.

same thing to you about the western women being peices of meat case.

 

[Gharib]

that is honorable way to go...funny enough though this posture you are taking on is what i think separates the boys from the men, so to speak, and it has absolutely nothing to do with religion, or god for that matter, it has to do with being the best person you can be...

please do study religion.

 

[darkendless]

why are muslims blamed for over reacting and why isn't he blamed for crossing the line? it is one thing to insult muslims for what they have done which was wrong (which he claims is the reason behind the drawings) and it is a dirrefent thing to call muslims terrorist with no evidence whatsoever and then wave the freedom of speech flag to cover up his main intent.

1. You want to punish a person for drawing a cartoon
2. You want to punish him on the basis that you're offended.
3. Who cares what him opinion of Islam is, by getting upset and making threats he has achieved the reaction he asked for, and humiliated Islam in the process.
4. How is drawing a cartoon crossing the line?
5. How is the slander of the west you spew almost daily and better?

 

[Gharib]

but aren't you reacting to opinion as if they were facts?
:yes:

i'm reacting to insults that have no basis and yet are presented as facts.

read the quote that lead the cartoonist to draw what he did...

well then we can go on forever. do you want an example so we can go on forever?

 

[darkendless]

same thing to you about the western women being peices of meat case.

Yeh but thats not only offensive its being sexist.

Theres a difference between being comically-insulting and being a Chauvinist animal. The man was also in a position of prominence and should have known better.

 

[Gharib]

1. You want to punish a person for drawing a cartoon
2. You want to punish him on the basis that you're offended.
3. Who cares what him opinion of Islam is, by getting upset and making threats he has achieved the reaction he asked for, and humiliated Islam in the process.
4. How is drawing a cartoon crossing the line?
5. How is the slander of the west you spew almost daily and better?

1,2. where have i said that i want him punished simply because HE DREW A CARTOON and because i took offence.

3. well i've been told numerously by other non-muslims on this very thread that the victim doesn't loose his honour but the criminal does, your point #3 seems to contradict that.

4. are you really that narrow minded? you don't know what the cartoon represents? lets put it this way so you can undeerstand it, it is not so much the cartoon, it was his intent.

5. you mean me saying what i did about your aussies being terrorists?

 

[Gharib]

Yeh but thats not only offensive its being sexist.

Theres a difference between being comically-insulting and being a Chauvinist animal. The man was also in a position of prominence and should have known better.

no he wasn't sexist nor was he wrong in any way.
he stated facts, you didn't like them so you started threatining him.