Judaisms Core

[YoursTrue]

Not true. All vowels are articulated the same in all languages because all of our vocal apparatus are the same.

Ah = Ah in all languages
Ee = Ee in all languages
Oh = Oh in all languages
Oo= Oo in all languages
Etc

The Torah was spoken and repeated regularly for over 1000 years prior to the masoretic text. The masoretic text records the vowel sounds that we're in use consistently for over 1000 years.

You are ignoring that the Torah was spoken and repeated consistently for over 1000 years before the masoretic text.

Some people have different ways of saying the same vowels. Different accents perhaps.

 

[Link]

@dybmh You replied, "It's still the same sound being articulated regardless of language"


@dybmh - You replied, "You want it to be corrupt. What you want doesn't matter here."

It kind of would be nice if both of you would prove both your cases with backups for others to see what you're talking about.

Keep in mind Hebrew is a revived language as well. In Arabic, there is variants with vowels too. For example "El Yaseen" vs "Auli Yaseen" in the Quran.

I'm wondering if dead sea scrolls have the vowels or not?

 

[YoursTrue]

Keep in mind Hebrew is a revived language as well. In Arabic, there is variants with vowels too. For example "El Yaseen" vs "Auli Yaseen" in the Quran.

I'm wondering if dead sea scrolls have the vowels or not?

I doubt it. Not sure when the vowel points were inserted. Yes, I agree that the original Hebrew pronunciation has been lost.

 

[YoursTrue]

Keep in mind Hebrew is a revived language as well. In Arabic, there is variants with vowels too. For example "El Yaseen" vs "Auli Yaseen" in the Quran.

I'm wondering if dead sea scrolls have the vowels or not?

When I said I doubt it, I was referring to the Dead Sea Scrolls about vowel points. But I don't know, it's an interesting question I guess about linguistics. Also, people often can tell what region a person is from even if they speak the same language because of differing ways of pronouncing vowels in the same language.

 

[Ebionite]

It kind of would be nice if both of you would prove both your cases with backups for others to see what you're talking about.

The language argument is off-topic for this thread. If you would like to create a thread that mentions us perhaps it could be continued there. I'm not going to have good internet access for the next few days, though.

 

[YoursTrue]

The language argument is off-topic for this thread. If you would like to create a thread that mentions us perhaps it could be continued there. I'm not going to have good internet access for the next few days, though.

Oh. I haven't really been following the discussion about the difference of accent and writing of the scriptures, but did a little research into it some time ago. The Masoretic texts do provide some consistency for pronunciation. But given much later than the scrolls were written, although appeciated. Take care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why did you name this thread Judaisms core but when Jews are attempting to discuss it you want them to f*@# off?

Spot on. I'm so curious what he'll answer.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Keep in mind Hebrew is a revived language as well. In Arabic, there is variants with vowels too. For example "El Yaseen" vs "Auli Yaseen" in the Quran.

I'm wondering if dead sea scrolls have the vowels or not?

No, the DSS Hebrew manuscripts do not have niqqud. These vowel indicators were developed by the Masoretes in the 6th to 10th centuries CE.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I’ve read some of the stuff on here and I really don’t know what it’s about. Like I said if it’s about debating whether or not Jesus is the core of Judaism that’s fine but the rules are you should stay on topic. No big deal. Actually I don’t really care I’m just making a simple suggestion.

I'm really sorry, but this thread has gone on for quite some time, so let me be frank. Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism. Not its core. Not its periphery. Not at all. It's not that Judaism teaches hatred of Jesus. It's just that he is completely irrelevant. Is there still anything about any of those remarks that you take issue with?

 

[David1967]

I find it odd that the core of Judaism still seems to revolve around the rejection of Christ. Why do they give Jesus all that power? Why don’t they just go about their business and worship their God? I don’t believe in Buddha, but the rejection of him isn’t the center of my beliefs. Hmm… is there something deeper? Makes me wonder…

How much do you really know about Judaism? Judaism is not Christianity, but to say that Judaism revolves around the rejection of Christ or is Judaisms core is simply not true. On top of that, it's not a very informed way to start a conversation.

 

[Jimmy]

I'm really sorry, but this thread has gone on for quite some time, so let me be frank. Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism. Not its core. Not its periphery. Not at all.

I realize that there are those who just are not exposed to Jews and Judaism, who sometimes think Jews believe in Jesus. I have a Jewish friend who lives in Ohio who runs across people like this. However, when he informs them that this is not the case, they learn. They don't keep making the same mistake.

I know that, but I wasn’t talking to you

 

[Jimmy]

How much do you really know about Judaism? Judaism is not Christianity, but to say that Judaism revolves around the rejection of Christ or is Judaisms core is simply not true. On top of that, it's not a very informed way to start a conversation.

Yeah, I tried getting this thread deleted, but I couldn’t because it’s over 20 posts. I realize it was silly thread posted without doing much research. I came across this idea on some website. I thought it might make for a good debate. I thought I’d put it on here and maybe learn more and I did. I’m now aware that Jews don’t give Jesus another thought.
Take care

 

[metis]

Judaism teaches: they look plural, but, they are not.

The "...im" is plural, but the reference "Elohim" is singular, which is why there's been so much commentary if this item for centuries now.

What about "commentary" don't you understand? On top of that, your know-it-all posture goes against the purpose of commentary. Even if I was 100% wrong on this, that still the nature of commentary because not all opinions can be correct. Commentary involves give & take, and you don't appear to understand that.

Nah. It's easier for you to demonize rather than understand.

I did not in any way "demonize" you as your position as it was your wording in post to someone else was arrogant and nasty, thus refuting what Hillel taught us about not doing unto others. If you think I demonized you, then do yourself a favor and maybe put me on your ignore list.

 

[metis]

In that context it's plural because it doesn't only refer to YHWH.

Usually references to YHWH alone have a singular form like elah eg elahyk, but there are apparent exceptions:

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:33

This exception could be explained as a reference to YHWH and his law.

Yes, that is very much possible as I previously had posted, but neither is it a slam-dunk.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Well, here you write an interesting post and I do have at least one question. OK -- what would the purpose be or the benefit be for a Jew to follow the Torah?

My understanding is that a request has been made for non-OP topics to be discussed outside of this thread. I have a video on the topic you ask about. I will send it to you privately.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Yeah, I tried getting this thread deleted, but I couldn’t because it’s over 20 posts. I realize it was silly thread posted without doing much research. I came across this idea on some website. I thought it might make for a good debate. I thought I’d put it on here and maybe learn more and I did. I’m now aware that Jews don’t give Jesus another thought.
Take care

It happens to all of us at some point. I once posted a thread in the Orthodox Jewish DIR and it got hijacked when I made the mistake of responding directly to someone who, against the rules, posted in the thread. It then got moved to the debate section even though the person posted in a place they were not supposed to post. I learned my lesson after that.

 

[Link]

Yeah, I tried getting this thread deleted, but I couldn’t because it’s over 20 posts. I realize it was silly thread posted without doing much research. I came across this idea on some website. I thought it might make for a good debate. I thought I’d put it on here and maybe learn more and I did. I’m now aware that Jews don’t give Jesus another thought.
Take care

Most of Bani-Israel became freemasons. If you study occult, a lot understand Torah to Gospels differently too. Two books not accepted as Bible is key of Solomon and another book I forget the name but linked to him. But the freemasons believe in the key of Solomon and it has big impact on how they analyze the Bible.

There is also the followers of John the Baptist and his scripture which a gnostic understanding today. They believe the world is created by the devil.

Then there is Yazdis who don't believe a devil exists and believe in Mohammad and Prophets after him that sought to correct that, and show that he was a great Angel and remains so, and seek to correct the Quran in this regard.

What I'm saying is Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Bahaism are not even the only options how to analyze all this.

 

[YoursTrue]

My understanding is that a request has been made for non-OP topics to be discussed outside of this thread. I have a video on the topic you ask about. I will send it to you privately.

Perhaps a new thread will help. Thank you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Most of Bani-Israel became freemasons. If you study occult, a lot understand Torah to Gospels differently too. Two books not accepted as Bible is key of Solomon and another book I forget the name but linked to him. But the freemasons believe in the key of Solomon and it has big impact on how they analyze the Bible.

There is also the followers of John the Baptist and his scripture which a gnostic understanding today. They believe the world is created by the devil.

Then there is Yazdis who don't believe a devil exists and believe in Mohammad and Prophets after him that sought to correct that, and show that he was a great Angel and remains so, and seek to correct the Quran in this regard.

What I'm saying is Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Bahaism are not even the only options how to analyze all this.

What I have found is an interesting thought -- can't remember where I read it, but it makes sense to me -- Yahweh -- or, as some English speakers say it as Jehovah -- centered His attention, approval and discipline on Israel for the most part. That is where I'm going to stop now. Because then I will have to discuss more about Jesus and/or the Messiah (Moshiach). So I'll just leave the thought there -- that Yahweh centered his attention on Israel for a reason. That was for quite a while.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Perhaps a new thread will help. Thank you.

No need. That topic has already been discussed very thuroughly in numerous threads. The video I sent summerizes.