JWs & The Bible

[nPeace]

You do not answer the scriptures I gave, the plain scriptures which show that Jesus was raised as a man with a physical body. (John 2:18-22, Matt 28:5)
All you do is provide texts which cannot be said to say for sure that Jesus was raised as a spirit.
You say that Jesus materialised different bodies to appear to the disciples and the scriptures don't say that, it is all invention.
1Tim 3:16---"was declared righteous in spirit". This seems to say when Jesus was declared righteous. It was when He was in spirit, and that was after He died and before He rose.
1Pet 3:18-20---"made alive in spirit in which He went and preached to the spirits in prison" Which spirits were they? The ones who had been disobedient in the days of Noah when God waited patiently while the ark was being built.
For a start He would not have preached to angels. He preached to the spirits of dead people, the ones who went to prison /sheol/ hades.
Do you really think that He went to preach to angels?
1Cor 15:35-52---
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

That shows that the body we die with is raised incorruptible and in power, it is a spiritual body. It is not a "spirit" body, as you may want us to think or even think yourself, it is a spiritual body, and as Vine tells us, one of the language experts JW use at times, that means it is a body that can be controlled by our spirit. That it does not mean that it is a spirit can be seen in the use of the word "spiritual" in other places in the New Testament.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The above section shows what we bear the image of. Just as we bear the image of Adam, a living soul, so we also bear the image of the second Adam from heaven, a life giving spirit. In the Greek it does not say that the Last Adam became or was made a life giving spirit. The first Adam became, the last has was a life giving spirit from eternity. The insertion of those words makes all the difference. And even if it meant that the last Adam became a life giving spirit it does not mean that He rose as a spirit. When he ascended to heaven He filled all things and even lives in us as a life giving spirit, as God. But this does not mean that He is not in heaven on the throne as the resurrected Jesus. He is both God and man and so can fulfil all of who and what He is.
Eph 4:10He who descended is the very One who ascended above all the heavens, in order to fill all things.
A verse which the WT has translated "give fulness to all things", which does not seem to agree with the Greek in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation at all. It is easier to see why the GB disagrees with the Bible and says that God is not everywhere.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Flesh and blood are symbols of corruption but Jesus was changed to be incorruptible and immortal just as we will be. I will add a verse that you left out.
53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
It is not that the physical body is done away with, it is changed by being clothed. The physical body becomes incorruptible and imperishable.
Roams 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
The WT would be delighted if it did not have the plain scriptures that say that Jesus rose bodily,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but those scriptures exist and so it has to use scriptures of Paul's that aren't 100% clear and say they mean what they do not.
I have heard that a theory is that the body of Jesus disappeared and could be hanging in state somewhere in heaven. How gross. Worse than wearing a cross to symbolise the redemptive death of Jesus, the gospel which brought in the start of the Kingdom 2000 years ago so that Jesus could be the King over Christians. Yes the early Christians were accused of having another King and Jesus was accused of being the King of the Jews. Both true accusations.
But if you cannot answer the scriptures I present then that shows something about the JWs and the Bible.

You can use your reasoning to yourself, not to me. The scriptures are not your reasoning, What is written is scripture.
Because you think something does not make it so. Think whatever you want.
This is a scriptural discussion. Not an argument on what you believe or don't believe.

Oh, and you don't bear anything. The scriptures say nothing about you.... except that you are a sinner, born in sin.

 

[nPeace]

Hi @brian and @nPeace

Does your present discussion center around whether the resurrection of Jesus (and the rest of mankind) is a physical resurrection or not?
Or do I misunderstand your discussion?

Clear
τωνενετζω

No Clear.
That was addressed. The answer was not accepted though.
I'm currently waiting on Brian to address this post, in order to clarify his ideas.

 

[Clear]

Hi @nPeace ;

Clear asked : "Does your present discussion center around whether the resurrection of Jesus (and the rest of mankind) is a physical resurrection or not?"
nPeace replied : "That was addressed. The answer was not accepted though."

So, are you saying your present discussion DID center around the physical resurrection, @Brian2 addressed it, but you didn't accept his answer and you both have moved on to a different subject?

Clear
δρτζδρακω

 

[Brian2]

@Brian2 next you'll be telling me the Bible teaches the Trinity - father, son, and holy spirit, one God, and JWs deny what the Bible says.

OK I'll tell you that. How do you answer?

 

[Brian2]

A mistake Brian?
I'm curious though, where did you get it from?

It is something I thought I remembered from years ago. Do you really think that Jesus went and preached to angel?

(Job 34:14, 15) 14 If he fixes his attention on them, If he gathers their spirit and breath to himself, 15 All humans would perish together, And mankind would return to the dust.
(Psalm 146:3, 4) 3 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.
(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
(Ecclesiastes 3:20) All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
(Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.

Yes these WT errors extend over a number of areas of doctrine. But of course whether we have a spirit or not does not change the fact of Jesus rising bodily from the dead as the gospels (Matt 28:6-8) tell us and as Jesus said He would (John 2:18-22) and as Peter suggested happened in Acts 2 and as Jesus showed in Luke 24. Materialising a body is an invention of the WT and is not in the scriptures. Also it is not in the scriptures that Jesus appeared in different bodies at different times. On the roads to Emmaus the disciples were blinded to whom Jesus was, as it says.
Luke 24:31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.
When that story is retold in Mark and says He appeared in a different form to those disciples it contradicts Luke 24:31 and is in the section of Mark that is considered a later addition these days.
Job 34:14,15, Psalm 146:3,4, Eccles 12:7, Ps 104:29 above all tell us that man has a spirit. Gen 2:26 also tells us the same thing.
Eccles 3:20 and Eccles 9:10 and Gen 3:19 do not tell the whole story of what a man is. We are made of dust but we are given the spirit of life. This part is spirit, it is not electricity or atomic energy or any other sort of energy,,,,,,,,,it is a spirit. Whether you want to say "spirit" or "a spirit", it is the same, we are not just chemicals.
I could tell you some of the places where we are told we have a spirit, and one that survives death. I did say some and you said nothing about those scriptures, just supplied your own which I have commented on and you make no comments on the scriptures I gave. (Luke 16, 1Sam 28, Matt 10:28)
How about 1Cor 2:11, 2Cor 5:1-4, Romans 8:16? How about the fact that the scriptures say that everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is born of God (1John 5:1) and that it is in the present tense. We are now born of God and are children of God. When we then compare it with John 3 which says: John 3:5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.
Can you see that we need to have a spirit if we are born again now. It is our spirit that is born again now, not our bodies. They are changed at the resurrection (Romans 8:11,23)
1Thess 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Can you see that the dead in Christ will be brought back with Jesus when He comes so that they can be raised from the dead. What does Jesus bring back if not the souls/spirits of the dead in Christ?

(1 Timothy 6:14)...

Sorry I keep making mistakes. I meant 1Tim 6:14-16

We?

Yes I did say we. I class you as a Christian who has been led into false doctrines. You believe Jesus is the Christ, then I guess that means you have been born of God (1John 5:1) as everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is.
But you said nothing about the scriptures I provided, Romans 8:11, 23, which show we are raised bodily. (even the anointed of Romans 8).

(1 Timothy 3:16)

(Philippians 3:20, 21)

You can't have it both ways. The scriptures say, he was raised up in glory. He received a glorious body by God.
https://www.religiousforums.com/bible/1-corinthians/15:46/

https://www.religiousforums.com/bible/1-corinthians/15:46/

I have answered all those scriptures.
As you say, the scriptures do say He was raised up in glory and received a glorified body. That is what I believe. Do you think I do not believe that? If so, why?

You said, "This passage speaks of the same body that is buried being raised but changed in nature."
I am trying to understand what you are saying. My grandad is dead. His body eaten by worms.
Were you saying that a buried body is not eaten by worms but is changed?
Are you now saying it is not the same body that is changed?
Can you see that you are confusing your listeners?
Can you please answer, yes or no, and explain, please. You know I can't read minds right?
Does the same body change, yes or no? Explain please.

In some cases the elements are dispersed to the winds when someone dies. That does not matter, our elements are renewed even when we are alive but we have the same body all through life, so we say anyway. Which exact atoms are used then is irrelevant. Our bodies will be reconstructed. But what is placed in them is not just a life force and memories, that would be a copy of someone, it would not be the same person. I think I have told you why. God could assemble atoms here and now to be a replica of my body and give it a life force and put my memories in it and we know it would not be me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,So if God did that same thing after I died, why would the person created be me then if it was not me when if He did it now??
It is the soul that does not die at the death of the body (Matt 10:28) which comes back to the body to make the then living soul (body and spirit) into the complete me again.
(and you must admit that when someone dies, in JW theology, their soul dies, so Matt 10:28 contradicts that doctrine)
It's a matter of what the soul is. The soul is the whole person and when the body dies the spirit part then becomes the whole person, and when the soul returns to the body the combination of body and spirit then becomes the living soul.
When Elijah raised the boy from the dead it says that the boys soul returned to him (1Kings 17:21) We know it means "life" but says "soul". Why does the WT accept some definitions of "soul" and not others when the Bible in places clearly uses soul to mean the spirit part of man which survives death.

I think you answered the part about being changed to what.
So my next question on that, is... does the seed that is planted, change to the plant?
Paul said, "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

So how do you arrive at the same body being changed? Or have you now changed your mind. Please give a detailed explanation, so I can understand this idea you are suggesting.

Can't you see that there would be no need for our old bodies at all if we become spirits. Why would Paul even mention our old bodies. Why would he not just say, you fools, you become spirits. The people he was speaking to knew that the body rose from the dead and wanted to know what sort of body it became, was changed to. They did not know exactly what sort of body Jesus has not, as we also do not, but they knew that the old body had something to do with it.
Interestingly the scriptures only give one picture of the resurrection body and never say that some will come back to live on earth with an earthly body.

 

[nPeace]

Hi @nPeace ;

Clear asked : "Does your present discussion center around whether the resurrection of Jesus (and the rest of mankind) is a physical resurrection or not?"
nPeace replied : "That was addressed. The answer was not accepted though."

So, are you saying your present discussion DID center around the physical resurrection, @Brian2 addressed it, but you didn't accept his answer and you both have moved on to a different subject?

Clear
δρτζδρακω

No, I did not say that. The thread centers around the theme.
Jesus' resurrection came up, as one of many things. I don't remember how it started. You can always look through the thread, if you want to know.

 

[Brian2]

Hi @brian and @nPeace

Does your present discussion center around whether the resurrection of Jesus (and the rest of mankind) is a physical resurrection or not?
Or do I misunderstand your discussion?

Clear
τωνενετζω

It's a varied discussion but that is one of the things we are discussing.

 

[Brian2]

You can use your reasoning to yourself, not to me. The scriptures are not your reasoning, What is written is scripture.
Because you think something does not make it so. Think whatever you want.
This is a scriptural discussion. Not an argument on what you believe or don't believe.

Oh, and you don't bear anything. The scriptures say nothing about you.... except that you are a sinner, born in sin.

1Cor 15:49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.
So we do bear the image/likeness of Adam and will also bear the image/likeness of the heavenly Adam.
Psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be.
Does that verse mean that God knows the future?

 

[nPeace]

Yes... it is a central issue. - and the more the merrier

Definition

1. within, inside
   1. within you i.e. in the midst of you
   2. within you i.e. your soul

In both cases that the word is used.... it is inside.

The Kingdom message is indeed the main message of Jesus' ministry, so yes, it is important that we understand it.

Dictionary

midst - in the middle of
in their midst - among them
similar -
among us
amid us
in our group
with us
surrounded by us
in the center
heart
bosom
core

among - surrounded by; in the company of
Similar:
surrounded by
in the company of
amid
in the middle of
between
in the thick of
amidst
in the midst of

Yes, Ken. Let's not argue over words.
The kingdom is not in the heart of wicked men. Nor is it inside them.

The scriptures neither says "in your heart", nor do they say "inside of you"
Strong's Greek: 1787. ἐντός (entos) -- within, among

.Strong's Greek: 1787. ἐντός (entos) -- within, among

To make the point clearer...
(Luke 17:20-25) 20 On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness; 21 nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.” 22 Then he said to the disciples: “Days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it. 23 And people will say to you, ‘See there!’ or, ‘See here!’ Do not go out or chase after them. 24 For just as lightning flashes from one part of heaven to another part of heaven, so the Son of man will be in his day. 25 First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation.

To note, Jesus tells the Pharisees the Kingdom of God is in their midst. It is not coming with obvious observableness.
He the tells his disciples, the son of man's day - his reveling, would be seen as signs. First though, he - the son of man - must suffer, and be rejected.
This does harmonize with what I was discussing earlier about Jesus parousia.

And, yes, there is much that Jesus spoke about the Kingdom of God (vs. the Kingdom of Heaven)

vs?
How did you come up with the idea that the kingdom of God, is xs the kingdom of heaven?

 

[nPeace]

Other than those He revealed it too (such as Abraham) yes, as we remember that the very mystery was revealed to the ones who wrote it down but blinded and deaf for the ones who heard it and read it.

The promises to Abraham were not the sacred secret, or mystery of the kingdom. Like all the prophecies, made by the prophets, they were about the Messiah and his kingdom, but the mystery of the kingdom was not revealed to Abraham, or anyone prior to Jesus' arrival.

(Mark 4:11) He said to them: “To you the sacred secret of the Kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things are in illustrations,

(Ephesians 3:5) In other generations this secret was not made known to the sons of men as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by spirit,

(1 Corinthians 2:6-10) 6 Now we speak wisdom among those who are mature, but not the wisdom of this system of things nor that of the rulers of this system of things, who are to come to nothing. 7 But we speak God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory. 8 It is this wisdom that none of the rulers of this system of things came to know, for if they had known it, they would not have executed the glorious Lord. 9 But just as it is written: “Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God.

Do you disagree with this?

OK... but we are in agreement so far.

Yes, here it says "the throne of David" not the "throne of God" though he is seated on the earthly throne in representation of God's throne. Yes, is Kingdom will have no end but Jesus did say "Thy Kingdom come thy will be done "on earth" as it is in Heaven.

Caveat. Have you ever considered that the Kingdom of Heaven is one thing and the Kingdom of God is another?

Why do you say that? For what reason, do you believe the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of the heavens are two different things?

Or to give it an example, the King of England was in England but England's kingdom extended to where the sun never set on England's Kingdom. Everything belonged to the king of England but he could institute a ruler in Jamaica under him. There was, in essence, a king for Jamaica but only at the please of the king of England. After all, Jesus is the King of kings.

Sorry Ken. I am not getting what you are trying to say.
(Daniel 2:44) “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,

(Psalm 2:4-6) 4 The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah will scoff at them. 5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger And terrify them in his burning anger, 6 Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain.”

(Matthew 6:9, 10) 9 “You must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.

(Luke 22:28-30) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

(John 18:36) Jesus answered: “My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”

I'm reading that the kingdom is God's kingdom which he set up, and placed in the hands of his appointed king Christ Jesus - the son of man.
Are you reading that also?

(1 Corinthians 15:24-28) 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

I'm seeing here in the scriptures, that the kingdom in the hand of Christ, is for him to use his ruling authority to accomplish God's will and purpose, after which he hands the kingdom back over to God.
Are you reading that too?

Those scriptures do harmonize with what Jesus said about himself, as the son of man, in line with Daniel 7:13, 14
13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.
Peoples, national groups and languages will all serve him - Christ the king. Like Solomon, and as greater Solomon, Christ will have subjects from sea to sea, and to the ends of the earth... also, the saints who rule with him, will. (Psalm 72:7, 8).

(Daniel 7:27) “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’

They will rule in this heavenly kingdom, with Christ the king, for 1,000 years.

Here you differentiated it but words are important. The kings sat on an earthly throne but in representation of God's Heavenly throne.

I'm not sure how you went from Solomon's throne to God's throne. I don't think this was a prophetic moment but it was specifically about Solomon.

Sorry. Perhaps cutting to the chase was a bit too quick.
Solomon's throne was to last forever, because it belongs to shiloh - the Messiah - God's appointed king.
If you disagree I can crawl through the scriptures with you, at a snail's pace.

I'm not seeing that if we go by what is said.
Acts 2:"34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, "35 Until I make* thy foes thy footstool*

You are not seeing that David was given prophetic utterances related to the kingdom?
Psalms 2 ; Psalm 45:6 ; Psalm 110:1, 2
Are these not prophecies related to the kingdom?

1) notice it says "at my right hand"... and not "on my throne".

(Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.

(Revelation 3:21) To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

2) notice that it says "thy foes" which are on earth and not Heaven

Agreed

3) There is a Heavenly Zion but there is an earthly Zion which is also God's and is (will be) Holy because even the Temple is an earthly image of God's Heavenly Temple.

The whole earth belongs to God, and the kingdom will rule the whole earth, not just part of it. So Mount Zion on earth will be God's of course, but earthly Mount Zion today is not an an earthly image of God's Heavenly Temple.
If you think so, I would be like to see the scriptures which tells you that.

4) In installing "my king", the understanding is that it is on earth where it needs to be installed - not in Heaven where God is already ruling on the throne.

That's your understand?
Please provide scriptures which say that Jesus is installed as king on earth.

Can't address the rest at this time. If we run too fast, we can trip over the shoe-strings that haven't been tied up yet"

Didn't your mom remind you always to tie your shoe laces.
I know some delinquent youth who always had loose shoe lases... or maybe the didn't know how to tie them.

 

[nPeace]

Agree with all of this...



Here I have some points...

Yes, it is an earthly kingdom but it still has to do with our hearts for the "kingdom of God is not meat or drink, but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost" and the Holy Ghost dwells in our innermost beings. Remember that He first writes in our hearts and you can't have a physical kingdom if the heart isn't in the kingdom as well as "the kingdom is within you".

Kingdom living includes sowing the word of God in our hearts (Mark 4)... so reigning first starts within and the kingdom first starts in the hearts of man.

The Father rules in Heaven but, as you mentioned, Jesus Christ rules on earth. Paul currently is in the heavenly Kingdom or the Kingdom of Heaven but when The Word returns, Paul will be with Jesus in the Kingdom of God on the earth.

Did I say Jesus rules on earth? Where?
The kingdom rules the earth from heaven, if that's what you mean.
Agreed?

 

[Brian2]

Did I say Jesus rules on earth? Where?
The kingdom rules the earth from heaven, if that's what you mean.
Agreed?

Have you read Rev 3:12 and Rev 21 where it says that New Jerusalem will come down to earth and God will dwell with His people,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,there on earth with the Lamb?
Does the GB deny those scriptures?
Have you read Matt 8:11 where it says that the OT saints will be in the Kingdom of Heaven? (compare with Luke 13:28 which uses the term Kingdom of God in the same context)
Does the GB deny those scriptures about the OT saints being in the Kingdom of Heaven or even being in the Kingdom?

 

[nPeace]

That does not say that the Kingdom is a Government. The Government is part of the Kingdom true but the King rules over the Kingdom as Isa 9:7 says.
Isa 9:7.......He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever.


Luke 22:28-30 is translated incorrectly in the NWT and should be that the Father has granted/bestowed a Kingdom on them. It should not make any difference really but with a group that wants to say that only a small percent of Christians are part of the covenant and who want to make the Covenant of Luke 22 into the New Covenant it is an error that should be pointed out.
Luke 12:32 actually shows that the Kingdom is given/granted to the little flock,,,,,,,,,,,as with a Will.
2Timothy4:18 does not show a Kingdom in heaven, it is speaking about a heavenly Kingdom (one OF heaven, not IN heaven)
Heavenly Jerusalem comes down to earth and God and the Lamb are there in Zion forever ruling over the Kingdom. (Isa 9:7) Why say "domain" when the domain IS the Kingdom.
Why change the plain definition of the word Kingdom and then try to make the Bible fit your ideas/ the GB ideas?
I guess it is because the WT wants to make only 144000 rule over all other Christians. That however is not in the Bible unless forced in by changes of definitions and some fast talk that ignores scriptures that show the contrary.

Luke 22:29 Interlinear: and I appoint to you, as my Father did appoint to me, a kingdom,
Strong's Greek: 1303. διατίθεμαι (diatithémi) -- to place separately, i.e. dispose of by a will

(Hebrews 12:18-24) 18 For you have not approached something that can be felt and that has been set aflame with fire, and a dark cloud and thick darkness and a storm, 19 and the blast of a trumpet and the voice speaking words, which on hearing, the people begged that nothing further should be spoken to them. 20 For they could not bear the command: “If even a beast touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21 Also, the display was so terrifying that Moses said: “I am afraid and trembling.” 22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood.

(Revelation 14:1-5) 1 Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.

 

[nPeace]

I wrote: ""Jesus is with the Church with the weeds till the end of the age. That would mean that Jesus is with the one you call the apostate one unless the JWs have weeds that bring in false teachings etc. Hmmm come to think of it.""

This was presented with scripture. Jesus said He would be with the Church till the end of the age and Jesus said that the weeds would be with the Church till the end of the age when the angels would gather them out for burning. What you call the apostate church is none other than the Church of Christ distinguished by the many weeds growing there alongside the wheat.

I wrote: ""It does not apply to the non anointed class who are not part of the Body of Christ, the Church.
Nobody has shown me where the Bible teaches 2 classes of Christians yet and nobody has shown me where it says that most of the New Testament is about the anointed class and does not apply to most JWs.
You really cannot call yourself a Christan Biblically if you are not in the New Covenant and are led by the Holy Spirit and are Born again. The Bible teaches that everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is Born again and the GB say, no that is wrong. And you can see that the GB is wrong on such an important point, which makes the whole house of cards collapse but you do not complain, and are not allowed to complain.""

Surely it is you who should be showing me you case by scripture. The case that there are 2 classes of Christians. Not just scriptures where that interpretation is read into them, but actual scriptures where it tells us about 2 classes, one ruling over the other, one in the Covenant, one not, one in the Church, one not, one born again, one not etc
I give you scriptures that tell us that is not true and I get ignored. (1John 5:1, John 14:23, Romans 8: 8-17, John 3:3-5)
You are used to being told that those scriptures do not apply to you and that the Kingdom is only a small group of people and that the Kingdom is a Government. All this is said without scriptural back up by the GB ie by their own claimed authority, but forgetting what the GB says and we see that the everyone who believes and loves God is born of God and is in the Kingdom and is a child of God and heir with Jesus.

Two classes - (Color code) 1 ; 2
(Genesis 22:18) And by means of your offspring all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves because you have listened to my voice.’” See Galatians 3:16, 29

(Luke 12:32) “Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.

(Luke 22:28-30) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

(John 10:16) “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

(Romans 8:19-23) 19 For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom.

(Revelation 7:3-9) 3 “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: .... 9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.

(Revelation 14:1-5) 1 Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.

(Revelation 21:1-4) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

 

[nPeace]

Maybe I'll get around to answering it again one day.


160 attempts to explain why "every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him" does not mean "every eye will see Him".
Luke 13:35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. And I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
Matt 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
We will all see Him, it is written. How come the physical eyes do not see Him when it says "every eye" will see Him?
It gets complicated because the WT needs Jesus to be invisible and not be seen or the rising as an invisible spirit is blown. How many scriptures do they have to deny to save face? They deny that we see Jesus scriptures, they deny the bodily resurrection scriptures. This is how the GB treats the Bible when it's doctrines are at stake.


Commentary on those scriptures in the JW website does not mean that the GB denies what they say.


OK. It won't be more important however.
Are these scriptures true?
1Kings 8:26 And now, O God of Israel, please confirm what You promised to Your servant, my father David. 27 But will God indeed dwell upon the earth? Even heaven, the highest heaven, cannot contain You, much less this temple I have built.
Acts 17:27 God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’

Just picking out these scriptures. If you deny that they are true then why do you want people to think that you believe all the scriptures are true. The WT wants to explain away those scriptures because it has doctrine it wants to protect.

All scriptures are true to JWs. I think you know that Brian.
No, we don't believe what you say is true. If you are trying to find out why, go here. Just type your scripture in the search bar, and select Search (Not Bible. Search).

If you are saying that JWs do not teach the Bible just present the verse they do not teach, and support your argument with scripture.
I really hope you understand that.

God does not, and cannot dwell on earth "bodily", but he is near to us in spirit. The scriptures say this.
For example ...Jesus told his followers he would be with them, and God promised to be with individuals on earth, Yet both God and Jesus were in heaven supporting those servants.
Why, God said he would grasp his servants with his right hand.
(Isaiah 41:10) . . .Do not be afraid, for I am with you. Do not be anxious, for I am your God. I will fortify you, yes, I will help you, I will really hold on to you with my right hand of righteousness.’
(Isaiah 41:13) . . .For I, Jehovah your God, am grasping your right hand, The One saying to you, ‘Do not be afraid. I will help you.’

Is God's hand grasping you? Do you see it?

 

[nPeace]

OK I'll tell you that. How do you answer?

Unscriptural.

 

[nPeace]

It is something I thought I remembered from years ago.

Lesson - Don't rely on a muddled memory.

Do you really think that Jesus went and preached to angel?

No, I don't think so. I know from scripture, and I believe the scriptures are true.
Are angels spirit?
Yes. Angels are spirit. - Hebrews 1:7, 13
(Hebrews 1:7) Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits. . .
(Hebrews 1:13, 14) 13 But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? 14 Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

Did Jesus preach to spirits in prison?
(1 Peter 3:19, 20) 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day. . .

What spirits are in prison?
(2 Peter 2:4) Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tartarus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.

(Jude 6) And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.

Yes these WT errors extend over a number of areas of doctrine. But of course whether we have a spirit or not does not change the fact of Jesus rising bodily from the dead as the gospels (Matt 28:6-8) tell us and as Jesus said He would (John 2:18-22) and as Peter suggested happened in Acts 2 and as Jesus showed in Luke 24. Materialising a body is an invention of the WT and is not in the scriptures. Also it is not in the scriptures that Jesus appeared in different bodies at different times. On the roads to Emmaus the disciples were blinded to whom Jesus was, as it says.
Luke 24:31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.
When that story is retold in Mark and says He appeared in a different form to those disciples it contradicts Luke 24:31 and is in the section of Mark that is considered a later addition these days.
Job 34:14,15, Psalm 146:3,4, Eccles 12:7, Ps 104:29 above all tell us that man has a spirit. Gen 2:26 also tells us the same thing.
Eccles 3:20 and Eccles 9:10 and Gen 3:19 do not tell the whole story of what a man is. We are made of dust but we are given the spirit of life. This part is spirit, it is not electricity or atomic energy or any other sort of energy,,,,,,,,,it is a spirit. Whether you want to say "spirit" or "a spirit", it is the same, we are not just chemicals.
I could tell you some of the places where we are told we have a spirit, and one that survives death. I did say some and you said nothing about those scriptures, just supplied your own which I have commented on and you make no comments on the scriptures I gave. (Luke 16, 1Sam 28, Matt 10:28)
How about 1Cor 2:11, 2Cor 5:1-4, Romans 8:16? How about the fact that the scriptures say that everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is born of God (1John 5:1) and that it is in the present tense. We are now born of God and are children of God. When we then compare it with John 3 which says: John 3:5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.
Can you see that we need to have a spirit if we are born again now. It is our spirit that is born again now, not our bodies. They are changed at the resurrection (Romans 8:11,23)
1Thess 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Can you see that the dead in Christ will be brought back with Jesus when He comes so that they can be raised from the dead. What does Jesus bring back if not the souls/spirits of the dead in Christ?

Are you saying the scriptures contradict themselves?
If not, your arguments are not meaningful. The scriptures contradict you, showing that it's your lack of understanding, or your desire to believe what you want.
So, which is it. Does the spirit go back to the true God who gives it, or not?

Sorry I keep making mistakes. I meant 1Tim 6:14-16


Yes I did say we. I class you as a Christian who has been led into false doctrines. You believe Jesus is the Christ, then I guess that means you have been born of God (1John 5:1) as everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is.
But you said nothing about the scriptures I provided, Romans 8:11, 23, which show we are raised bodily. (even the anointed of Romans 8).


I have answered all those scriptures.
As you say, the scriptures do say He was raised up in glory and received a glorified body. That is what I believe. Do you think I do not believe that? If so, why?


In some cases the elements are dispersed to the winds when someone dies. That does not matter, our elements are renewed even when we are alive but we have the same body all through life, so we say anyway. Which exact atoms are used then is irrelevant. Our bodies will be reconstructed. But what is placed in them is not just a life force and memories, that would be a copy of someone, it would not be the same person. I think I have told you why. God could assemble atoms here and now to be a replica of my body and give it a life force and put my memories in it and we know it would not be me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,So if God did that same thing after I died, why would the person created be me then if it was not me when if He did it now??
It is the soul that does not die at the death of the body (Matt 10:28) which comes back to the body to make the then living soul (body and spirit) into the complete me again.
(and you must admit that when someone dies, in JW theology, their soul dies, so Matt 10:28 contradicts that doctrine)
It's a matter of what the soul is. The soul is the whole person and when the body dies the spirit part then becomes the whole person, and when the soul returns to the body the combination of body and spirit then becomes the living soul.
When Elijah raised the boy from the dead it says that the boys soul returned to him (1Kings 17:21) We know it means "life" but says "soul". Why does the WT accept some definitions of "soul" and not others when the Bible in places clearly uses soul to mean the spirit part of man which survives death.


Can't you see that there would be no need for our old bodies at all if we become spirits. Why would Paul even mention our old bodies. Why would he not just say, you fools, you become spirits. The people he was speaking to knew that the body rose from the dead and wanted to know what sort of body it became, was changed to. They did not know exactly what sort of body Jesus has not, as we also do not, but they knew that the old body had something to do with it.
Interestingly the scriptures only give one picture of the resurrection body and never say that some will come back to live on earth with an earthly body.

I am ignoring your beliefs.
I told you, telling me what you believe is not the same as providing scripture that says what is.
The fact that you spend so much time telling me what you believe is clear evidence that it is not scripture, but rather, what you think.
Scripture supports scripture, and gives the explanation.
Provide those... if you can.

 

[Brian2]

Luke 22:29 Interlinear: and I appoint to you, as my Father did appoint to me, a kingdom,
Strong's Greek: 1303. διατίθεμαι (diatithémi) -- to place separately, i.e. dispose of by a will
View attachment 49915

Well that agrees with what I said. "Covenant" is the wrong term if the WT wanted to convey the correct meaning. "Appoint" "grant" "gift" "bequeath" would all be better words to use. The Kingdom is given to Christians as it was given to Jesus.

(Hebrews 12:18-24) 18 For you have not approached something that can be felt and that has been set aflame with fire, and a dark cloud and thick darkness and a storm, 19 and the blast of a trumpet and the voice speaking words, which on hearing, the people begged that nothing further should be spoken to them. 20 For they could not bear the command: “If even a beast touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21 Also, the display was so terrifying that Moses said: “I am afraid and trembling.” 22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood.

How does this negate Rev 3:12 and Rev 21 which shows God's dwelling place coming down out of heaven to earth and God dwelling with His people forever in the New Jerusalem from heaven?
Heb 13:14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.
The city is to come and those in the first century were looking for it. They are going to live there, the anointed.
Heb 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
The faithful from the OT are going to also live in that city and they were longing for a heavenly country. Notice how the word "heavenly" is used. It does not mean "in heaven" but means "of heaven".
And since God is going to dwell in the New Jerusalem with the Lamb forever it looks as if heaven has come to earth.

(Revelation 14:1-5) 1 Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.

It seems strange to build a theology around theories about who the 144000 are, especially when that theology contradicts other plain things in the Bible.
1Cor 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.
ALL Christians have been bought with a price since all Christians are born of God (1John 5:1)
That means that the WTs theory about who and what the 144000 are is completely wrong. It contradicts plain scriptures. In one sweep of it's brush it negates all those plain scriptures in favour of it's own theories,,,,,,,,,,,it says, "Oh those scriptures don't apply to you other sheep". And the worst part is that you believe them instead of believing the scriptures.

 

[Brian2]

Two classes - (Color code) 1 ; 2
(Genesis 22:18) And by means of your offspring all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves because you have listened to my voice.’” See Galatians 3:16, 29

This also is a secret held from the OT prophets till the time of Jesus.
Eph 3:5 which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace, given me through the working of His power.…
Notice that there is one promise and it looks like all the gentiles will be fellow members of the body and fellow partakers of the promise, along with the Jews.

(Luke 12:32) “Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.

(Luke 22:28-30) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

Since all who believe Jesus is the Christ are born of God (1John 5:1) all are anointed and in the Covenant and eat and drink with the OT saints in the New Jerusalem in the Kingdom.

Matt 8:11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”…

(John 10:16) “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

In context, this is about the Gentiles being the other sheep. It is a clutching at straws by the WT to say it refers to the non anointed class.

(Romans 8:19-23) 19 For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom.

(Revelation 7:3-9) 3 “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: .... 9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.

All Christians have the Spirit because they are born of God and so are "firstfruits". That may not say whom the 144000 are but does contradict what the Gov Body says about the 144000 in comparison to the other sheep whom they say have not the Spirit.
It is interesting that the great crowd are standing before the throne and before the Lamb. This could indicate that they are in heaven or that the throne is at that stage on the earth with God and the Lamb in the heavenly Jerusalem.

(Revelation 14:1-5) 1 Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.

Since all Christians have the Spirit and are firstfruits the 144000 could be a symbolic number for all Christians. All Christians are justified through faith and seen as blameless in God's eyes and have been bought from the earth,,,,,,,,,,,,which does not mean that they are going to depart the earth and go to heaven, it means that of the people on earth they have been bought.

(Revelation 21:1-4) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Exactly. You quote the verses that damn the WT theology and make no comment, as if it is obvious that they do not contradict the WT theology.

 

[Brian2]

If you are saying that JWs do not teach the Bible just present the verse they do not teach, and support your argument with scripture.

I have been presenting verses that the WT does not teach and those verses are support that they do not teach those things.

God does not, and cannot dwell on earth "bodily", but he is near to us in spirit. The scriptures say this.
For example ...Jesus told his followers he would be with them, and God promised to be with individuals on earth, Yet both God and Jesus were in heaven supporting those servants.
Why, God said he would grasp his servants with his right hand.
(Isaiah 41:10) . . .Do not be afraid, for I am with you. Do not be anxious, for I am your God. I will fortify you, yes, I will help you, I will really hold on to you with my right hand of righteousness.’
(Isaiah 41:13) . . .For I, Jehovah your God, am grasping your right hand, The One saying to you, ‘Do not be afraid. I will help you.’

Is God's hand grasping you? Do you see it?

I can see that some Bible verses are figurative. I can also see that the ones I give are not.
God is so big that the whole universe cannot house Him and the WT says NO.
1Kings 8:26 And now, O God of Israel, please confirm what You promised to Your servant, my father David. 27 But will God indeed dwell upon the earth? Even heaven, the highest heaven, cannot contain You, much less this temple I have built.
Acts 17:27 God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’

We will see Jesus when He returns, and the WT says NO.
Luke 13:35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. And I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
Matt 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
The scriptures even say that people will see God.
Psalm 17:15 As for me, I will behold Your face in righteousness; when I awake, I will be satisfied in Your presence.
Job 19:26 Even after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God. 27 I will see Him for myself; my eyes will behold Him, and not as a stranger. How my heart yearns within me!

I can see why the WT does not want all to see Jesus, it contradicts other doctrines they have (invisibility of Jesus and being in heaven) I guess the WT wants to contradict the scriptures about God being everywhere because they want God in heaven only and if He was everywhere that probably means that God is His Spirit.
And of course the scriptures do teach that the Spirit is the Lord. ( 2Cor 3:17 ).

You say that God cannot come and dwell bodily on the earth but the scriptures contradict that. They tell us that the fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and that the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and that if we have seen Jesus we have seen the Father. God can dwell bodily on earth.
But it is an interesting topic, that of the presence of God. God is everywhere but His presence is more palpable in some places than others.
God's presence was in the one who accompanied Israel in the wilderness. Moses and the Israelite elders saw God and ate and drank,,,,,,,,,,but the scriptures say that no man has seen God at any time.
We certainly know that no man has seen the Father at any time but that does not mean they have not seen Yahweh. Jesus was given/inherited the name above all names after His sojourn on earth as a man. He took back His God identity. That could be the answer. The Son was seen by people in the OT and New Testament and so God was seen even though the Father, who is invisible and dwell in unapproachable light has not and cannot be seen.
Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us and the Father is in Jesus.
It is interesting that John 14:23 tells us that the Father and Son will come and make their home with us. This is when we receive the Holy Spirit (remember 2Cor 3:17 The Lord is that Spirit)