Language, the most lovely evidence of God.

[mickiel]

Speaking as a professional linguist, I am glad to see that you take an interest in the subject of my career. The point you are making about metaphor is actually quite profound. Metaphor--analogical reasoning, actually--is at the heart of language and human cognition. In a sense, the human mind is a vast web of associations between experiences. Metaphor is a core process behind the growth of a mind.

quote]


Well I agree, I think it is the heart of language.

Peace.

 

[MW0082]

I debate here everyday, and everyday people give their views of my style of debate.

Some like it, some don't, but I am content with it.

I do my best.

Peace.

You do not debate,.....define debate - Bing DICTIONARY

there is no consideration of anyones ideas but your own. That is not a debate that is spreading your opinion......

 

[MW0082]

Speaking as a professional linguist, I am glad to see that you take an interest in the subject of my career. The point you are making about metaphor is actually quite profound. Metaphor--analogical reasoning, actually--is at the heart of language and human cognition. In a sense, the human mind is a vast web of associations between experiences. Metaphor is a core process behind the growth of a mind.

quote]


Well I agree, I think it is the heart of language.

Peace.

You ignore eveything else he brought up. You claim you can can debate......?:ignore:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I like my ideas and what I talk about, and I believe in them.

It satisfys me.

Peace.

So no clicking the link I provided correct?

You're still at the level of a child in grade school because you believe what you say even though it is proven to be incorrect yet when you're shown the error in your supposed logic you fail to learn, adapt and change. Such tactics are labeled as feeble and infantile and borderlines on "ignorant" (in the true sense of the word - ignoring the facts).

 

[mickiel]

So no clicking the link I provided correct?

You're still at the level of a child in grade school because you believe what you say even though it is proven to be incorrect yet when you're shown the error in your supposed logic you fail to learn, adapt and change. Such tactics are labeled as feeble and infantile and borderlines on "ignorant" (in the true sense of the word - ignoring the facts).

No one has shown me that there is no God and that Language didnot come from him. No one has proven anything to me.

Peace.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

No one has shown me that there is no God and that Language didnot come from him. No one has proven anything to me.

Peace.

And you haven't been able to prove your god is the creator of language either....

What has been proven to you, by the link I've provided, many other post here and a member who's a linguist is that animals DO have a complex form of communication.

 

[tomato1236]

I myself love language. Words and their definition. Communication and the defining of it. Its very powerful and meaningful, it came from God, a very powerful and meaningful individual. It has metaphor. The most fascinating property of language is metaphors. Animals cannot make metaphors, it is by metaphors that language grows. A metaphor is a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable, in order to suggest a resemblance. As in " She is the flower of my life." Well she is not a literal flower, but the meaning is understandble.

This is the power and evidence of a God who has introduced this, certainly evolution has no power to introduce this. Absolutely none! A metaphor is always a known metaphier operating on a less known metaphrand. Animals are nowhere near this complexity, because they have nowhere near the consciousness that humans hold. Metaphors increase enormously our powers of perception of the world around us and our understanding of it. It literally creates. Indeed language is an organ of perception and a definte proof of God, not just simply a means of communication.

Its just lovely, and I want to go into this most lovely proof of God. And I will be using some perceptive language to describe it.

Peace.

Oh. I thought this said "Luggage", not "Language". This could have been such an interesting thread. Oh well.

 

[AuroraWillow]

Luggage: The most frequently lost evidence of God.

 

[tomato1236]

Luggage: The most frequently lost evidence of God.

"Have you thought much about luggage, Mr. Banks?"
"No."
"It is the central preoccupation of my life."

--From Joe vs the Volcano

 

[PolyHedral]

Luggage: The most frequently lost evidence of God.

You should talk to Rincewind.

 

[mickiel]

And you haven't been able to prove your god is the creator of language either....

What has been proven to you, by the link I've provided, many other post here and a member who's a linguist is that animals DO have a complex form of communication.

I have never said that animals can't communicate, I said they have no spoken languages.

Peace.

 

[Copernicus]

I have never said that animals can't communicate, I said they have no spoken languages.

That depends on what you mean by "spoken language". Many animals have "call systems" for communication--equivalent to human laughter, crying, screaming, etc. Apes can have very complex call systems, but our brains and theirs evolved from the same ancestor (i.e. human beings are technically apes). They even appear to be able to think symbolically. What the other apes seem to lack is an elaborately structured system with parts of speech, phrases, and conversational speech acts. Many sea mammals, especially including whales and porpoises, have very complex communication systems that we do not really know a lot about. They can coordinate complex behaviors in ways that we do not really understand.

 

[mickiel]

It is commonly thought that language is such an inherent part of the human constitution that it must go back somehow through the tribal ancestry of man to the very orgin of the Genus Homo, that is, for almost 2 million years, and most contemporary linguist feel this is true. But with this view, I wish to totally and emphatically disagree. If early man had even a primordial speech, why is there so little evidence of even simple culture or technology? All we have is the rudest of stone tools.

Primordal humans communicated just like all other primates, with an abundance of visual and vocal signals which were far removed from the syntactical language that we pratice today. Certain linguist feel that primordal man had to have language in order to transmit their simple way of living down to the next generation. I disagree with that, they transmitted it solely by imitation, exactly the same way in which chimpanzees transmit the trick of inserting straws into ant hills to get ants.

Peace.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I have never said that animals can't communicate, I said they have no spoken languages.

Peace.

There's no reference in this thread where you've indicated "animals have no spoken language"...but even so it depends on your interpretation of "spoken language"

We know, from observation and study, that dolphins have a highly sophisticated form of communication that involves certain repetitive squeals and clicks to convey messages. We also find this to be the case with elephants communicating at low frequencies over long distances. Again, we additionally find this to be the case with various breeds of dogs barking in isolated neighborhoods (communities). To us they sound like they're just barking but in fact they are communicating with each other.

 

[MW0082]

Language isn't limited to words, there is body language and sign language and even eye contact that is a form of language. Animals do indeed have language,......

 

[mickiel]

There's no reference in this thread where you've indicated "animals have no spoken language"...but even so it depends on your interpretation of "spoken language"

We know, from observation and study, that dolphins have a highly sophisticated form of communication that involves certain repetitive squeals and clicks to convey messages. We also find this to be the case with elephants communicating at low frequencies over long distances. Again, we additionally find this to be the case with various breeds of dogs barking in isolated neighborhoods (communities). To us they sound like they're just barking but in fact they are communicating with each other.

Animals have no spoken language at all. They do not use verbs and nouns and combine them into word usuage. No matter what " Sidestepping" arguement you bring up, there is absolutely nothing you can do to change this fact.

Peace.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Primordal humans communicated just like all other primates, with an abundance of visual and vocal signals which were far removed from the syntactical language that we pratice today.

Actually this is kind of incorrect. Al though that was early mans' form of communication over time it evolved into what we have today. Chalk it up to brain size.

Certain linguist feel that primordal man had to have language in order to transmit their simple way of living down to the next generation. I disagree with that

I don't disagree. Language is ever evolving. Today we even have tribes of people that use both a spoken language as well as a series of clicks in their speech to convey their message. Some people have developed their own for of communication such as (twin speech-Idioglossia)

they transmitted it solely by imitation, exactly the same way in which chimpanzees transmit the trick of inserting straws into ant hills to get ants.

Actually our understanding of any particular human spoken language is learned through a repetitiveness process. Children are not able to speak and form sentences on their own unless they are taught how to through this kind of process. Imagine a child growing up in the wilderness with no one to teach him (how to speak). That child will communicate like any other primate....with grunts and squeals. Until the child is taught a spoken language its ability to communicate with you or me is no different than a primate trying to communicate with you or me.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Animals have no spoken language at all. They do not use verbs and nouns and combine them into word usuage. No matter what " Sidestepping" arguement you bring up, there is absolutely nothing you can do to change this fact.

Peace.

The fact is they DO communicate and very effectively and most animals (i.e. the ones I previously mentioned) are extremely sophisticated.

Here's the problem I see with your argument. You don't speak "dog" so how do you know? You don't speak "whale, dolphin or elephant" so how do base your understanding on the language of animals?

 

[mickiel]

The fact is they DO communicate and very effectively and most animals (i.e. the ones I previously mentioned) are extremely sophisticated.

Here's the problem I see with your argument. You don't speak "dog" so how do you know? You don't speak "whale, dolphin or elephant" so how do base your understanding on the language of animals?

God gave Adam and Eve language, from there each new word literally created new perceptions and attentions, and such new perceptions and attentions resulted in important cultural changes which are reflected in the Archaeological record.

There is no record of dogs developing culture or verbal vocabulary , whales had no written languages , Dolphins have never advanced in any organization of their verbal abilities that has led to communication with another species, and elephants don't speak to other animals , and do not communicate to man.

Its academic.

Peace.

 

[PolyHedral]

Nobody can communicate coherently to another species, not even us, so why are you expecting dolphins to be able to?