Lauren Southern makes it into Australia

[CruzNichaphor]

So no actual evidence of the things you claimed were default positions. Thought not.

Oh give me a break.

Do you really expect me to do a well-rounded survey of an inclusive representation of the Australian public just so I can provide you with more established evidence to dispel what is obviously a stubbornly immovable opinion of yours?

I'm not going to bother wasting my time.

How about you provide me evidence of the contrary?

Thought not.

 

[CruzNichaphor]

Probably because she was far right.

Why should that preclude someone from obtaining a visa?

She's non-violent, has no criminal record and poses no threat to anyone; plus she was travelling for work.

She should've been on a waiver list.

Instead, fear of how the Australian public might react to her presence obstructed her - it's shocking and an embarrassment to Australia.

 

[icehorse]

Purex, post #48:

And what she was actually saying was that if you are white-skinned and you live in a white-skinned empowered society; that discriminates routinely in favor of white-skinned people, and you participate in that society and enjoy the advantages of that discrimination (as all white people do in such a society) then you are technically a racist whether you are aware of it or not.

To which I responded "nonsense" "goes against critical thinking" and so on.

To which @PureX responded:

What you should do is stop sputtering groundless objections and explain what it is exactly that you find so logically objectionable. Because it appears too me that you are trying to object to the reality of white privilege in a white-dominated society, and I really don't see how you're going to claim that it isn't real when nearly every CEO, politician, and member of the investor class (the ruling class in a capitalist society) is white, has always been white, and very likely will continue to be white in the future (and male, but this discussion is about race).

I am NOT denying that privilege exists and that it's a problem.

What I'm disagreeing with is that part of your post #48 which I copied - a second time - above. This claim of yours that EVERY white person with a modicum of success is a racist, even if they're not aware of it. That's poppycock. That's a common identity politics claim, and - again ironically - it's an extremely racist claim to boot. Can you see how your own darned claim is racist?

 

[Lyndon]

Australia is a very racist country. Seems like we have more evidence of that.

 

[CruzNichaphor]

I believe my meaning was perfectly clear. To anyone not affecting ostentatious naivete, anyway.

Okay - so am I to understand that you agree with Sub's apparent position that the statement "It's okay to be white" is an embarrassingly racist statement?

Are you going to align yourself with that view?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Oh give me a break.

but saying "please" is unacceptable?

Do you really expect me to do a well-rounded survey of an inclusive representation of the Australian public just so I can provide you with more established evidence

if you're going to make claims about default public opinions, then yes, actually. Or at least refer to someone else's study. Otherwise your claims are just unsubstantiated opinion. You're entitled to an opinion, but if you want to convince anyone else, yeah, some sort of evidence is not an unreasonable ask.

to dispel what is obviously a stubbornly immovable opinion of yours?

you don't know the first thing about me OR my opinion. My opinion which is always willing to shift in light of new evidence, by the way.

I'm not going to bother wasting my time.

How about you provide me evidence of the contrary?

Thought not.

You're the one who made the claim about Australian default public opinion. Don't get mad at me if you haven't got the evidence to back up your claim. That's how burden of proof works. It's up to the person making the claim to support it, not for others to disprove it. I direct you to the "dragon in the garage" thought experiment.

 

[CruzNichaphor]

If he was as inept as Trump, do you think he could? Say what you like about Obama's performance, (I never liked him, myself) but on paper, at least, he's one of the most qualified candidates of recent time. If he'd been an adulterous failed business man with multiple accusations of inappropriate professional and personal conduct hanging over him, do you think he'd have come anywhere near the White House?

Absolutely.

I would argue that Obama's racial makeup actually assisted him into office more than Trump's.

Far more.

Obama was half black yet capitalised on his "blackness" as a means to garner votes for the Democrats in the wake of the Bush 2 admin.

I think you've got the whole thing backwards.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Okay - so am I to understand that you agree with Sub's apparent position that the statement "It's okay to be white" is an embarrassingly racist statement?

Are you going to align yourself with that view?

It is a dog whistle for racist sentiment, yes. The statement itself is innocuous enough. The same way the swastika is just a couple of black lines.

 

[CruzNichaphor]

but saying "please" is unacceptable?if you're going to make claims about default public opinions, then yes, actually. Or at least refer to someone else's study. Otherwise your claims are just unsubstantiated opinion. You're entitled to an opinion, but if you want to convince anyone else, yeah, some sort of evidence is not an unreasonable ask. you don't know the first thing about me OR my opinion. My opinion which is always willing to shift in light of new evidence, by the way.
You're the one who made the claim about Australian default public opinion. Don't get mad at me if you haven't got the evidence to back up your claim. That's how burden of proof works. It's up to the person making the claim to support it, not for others to disprove it. I direct you to the "dragon in the garage" thought experiment.

I'm not mad at anyone.

The entire premise of this thread can be considered evidence of what your asking for in and of itself.

I provided you with anecdotal evidence which you wilfully ignored.

Don't flatter yourself with the way you apparently perceive your intellect.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Absolutely.

I would argue that Obama's racial makeup actually assisted him into office more than Trump's.

Far more.

Obama was half black yet capitalised on his "blackness" as a means to garner votes for the Democrats in the wake of the Bush 2 admin.

I think you've got the whole thing backwards.

I agree he capitalised on his race, but that wasn't what I was talking about. Go back and read my comment again.

 

[CruzNichaphor]

It is a dog whistle for racist sentiment, yes.

Okay.

Now explain how.

Any evidence of this?

LOL

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I'm not mad at anyone.

if you say so

The entire premise of this thread can be considered evidence of what your asking for in and of itself.

I don't see how

I provided you with anecdotal evidence which you wilfully ignored.

because unsupported anecdotal evidence is worthless for determining truth.

Don't flatter yourself with the way you apparently perceive your intellect.

Huh? Tall poppy syndrome flairing up, is it?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Okay.

Now explain how.

Any evidence of this?

LOL

And we're back to "please". Or *eyeroll* if you prefer.

To answer your affectedly naive question, though, yes. Plenty of evidence. Go read her previous statements.

 

[CruzNichaphor]

if you say soI don't see howbecause unsupported anecdotal evidence is worthless for determining truth.
Huh? Tall poppy syndrome flairing up, is it?

1. Anecdotal evidence is not worthless for determining truth; do you have any understanding of how our common law legal system works?

2. You characterized me as angry for some unknown reason. I have no emotional investment in this forum.

3. As for the "tall poppy" comment - you were the one who starting blubbering on about the nature of your opinions despite no one asking about it, let alone caring; then you go on to compound the issue by assuming that me telling you not to give yourself too much unwarranted credit or importance is a reflection of some kind of superior intellect that you believe you possess. I'm sure you're an absolute scream at parties - yikes.

 

[CruzNichaphor]

And we're back to "please". Or *eyeroll* if you prefer.

To answer your affectedly naive question, though, yes. Plenty of evidence. Go read her previous statements.

Direct me to one.

Otherwise, you've wasted your time in this fickle "argument" you tried to incite.

 

[CruzNichaphor]

Yes I was.

I invite you to explain to me:

What is "embarrassingly racist" about the statement that: "It's okay to be white"?

I look forward to your reply.

@Subduction Zone

Bump

 

[PureX]

Dangerous territory.

Obama was pretty inept - his racial handicap didn't stop him gaining office.

Obama wasn't inept at all, he was simply opposed on all policies regardless of their need or value by white republicans males pandering to a white racist base. A base who's main issue is the perceive loss of their long standing white privilege and power. The very issue that got Trump elected and that buys him support for every idiotic thing he says or does to this day.

 

[PureX]

Purex, post #48:

To which I responded "nonsense" "goes against critical thinking" and so on.

To which @PureX responded:



I am NOT denying that privilege exists and that it's a problem.

What I'm disagreeing with is that part of your post #48 which I copied - a second time - above. This claim of yours that EVERY white person with a modicum of success is a racist, even if they're not aware of it.

That's because you are not understanding what's been posited.

When you are white, and you are living within a society that supports and advances white people over all others in nearly every way, and nearly all the time, and you accept that advantage by participating in that racist system, and by accepting the gains you receive from it, you ARE A RACIST by your acceptance whether you like it or not, whether you realize it or not, and whether you deny it or not. You are a racist by you participation in a racist system, and by your acceptance of (and even more-so by your denial) of the advantages you continue to receive simply because you are white. Racism does not require that you be aware of it, or that you consciously approve of it. Racism isn't just a state of mind, it's also a course of action.

 

[icehorse]

That's because you are not understanding what's been posited.

When you are white, and you are living within a society that supports and advances white people over all others in nearly every way, and nearly all the time, and you accept that advantage by participating in that racist system, and by accepting the gains you receive from it, you ARE A RACIST by your acceptance whether you like it or not, whether you realize it or not, and whether you deny it or not. You are a racist by you participation in a racist system, and by your acceptance of (and even more-so by your denial) of the advantages you continue to receive simply because you are white. Racism does not require that you be aware of it, or that you consciously approve of it. Racism isn't just a state of mind, it's also a course of action.

I believe I understand your definition. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. By your definition, we are all - people of all colors - are racists, and the term loses its usefulness. At this point we're just disagreeing in semantics. That said, your definition is an extremely short hop from ratifying thought crimes, and that cannot stand.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Direct me to one.

Otherwise, you've wasted your time in this fickle "argument" you tried to incite.

Why? So you can handwave it and attack me personally?