LDS Beliefs and the Bible (6 Discussions)

[madhatter85]

I would do the same thing as FFH as far as posting the JST and the KJV side by side because i too believe the JST of the bible is more correct than the KJV.

But it's not worth it to me to go out of my way and post it because alot fo times it does get ignored.

But i am greatful that FFH takes the time.

The more people that are educated about the gospel of Jesus Christ the better, and the more chances they have to accept it. less chance for them to be like "oh well i didn't know about that" in the hereafter.

 

[Katzpur]

Money is definitely an issue in the LDS culture, why would we eat verious flavored crystalized cow hoofs (jello) otherwise ???

Comparing jello to the word of God is ridiculous, FFH. Jello is a cultural thing here in Utah. If the Brethern detested the KJV as much as you do, they'd make good and sure we all knew it and would somehow figure out a way to produce the JST more economically or subsidize the cost to the members. Period. The end.

You don't seem to realize that I agree with you in terms of the JST being more accurate and complete than the KJV. I just think that, as you do in so many other areas, you take such an extremist view that it usually backfires on you and leads people to misunderstand our beliefs. Most of the time (there are exceptions), when the Brethren quote from the Bible in General Conference, they use the KJV. Maybe you ought to write to President Monson and tell him his Bible is "broken" and he needs to stop using it. Jeesh!

 

[Katzpur]

Why do you think we started a whole knew religion Katzpur ????

Because the Bible alone does not give us enough info concerning how we might have eternal life with God.

"Men are that they MIGHT have joy"

"Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it"

Jesus Christ said these words through scripture inspired by mortal men.

You just don't get it, do you. I agree with you!!!!!

 

[Katzpur]

I would do the same thing as FFH as far as posting the JST and the KJV side by side because i too believe the JST of the bible is more correct than the KJV.

But it's not worth it to me to go out of my way and post it because alot fo times it does get ignored.

But i am greatful that FFH takes the time.

The more people that are educated about the gospel of Jesus Christ the better, and the more chances they have to accept it. less chance for them to be like "oh well i didn't know about that" in the hereafter.

There is sometimes a legitimate reason to post from both versions, but what FFH doesn't seem to understand is that if people don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, there is absolutely no reason in the world for them to believe that his translation is any more accurate than some guy's off the street. It's like a Muslim quoting from the Qur'an and saying, "See! It says so right here! That's proof that Islam is true!"

I have no problem with FFH throwing away his "broken" Bible. I'm actually surprised that he didn't make a real production of the event and burn it, along with all the Christmas trees and Valentines cards he could dig up. If the Brethren agreed with him that we should use the JST instead of the KJV -- especially in engaging in religious discussions with those not of our faith -- they'd say so. Until they do, I'm hanging on to my broken Bible and will continue to use it on RF. And I am probably going to continue to consider FFH's denegration of the KJV as irreverant and holier-than-thou.

 

[FFH]

There is sometimes a legitimate reason to post from both versions, but what FFH doesn't seem to understand is that if people don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, there is absolutely no reason in the world for them to believe that his translation is any more accurate than some guy's off the street. It's like a Muslim quoting from the Qur'an and saying, "See! It says so right here! That's proof that Islam is true!"

Wrong, there's a HUGE difference, that being that the JST is inspired by God and God WILL teach all his children the truth, sooner or later, might as well be sooner.

In Japan we were IGNORED yet we continued to spread the word about the Book of Mormon, IN SPITE OF CONSTANT rejection.

The more we preached the more likely we were to come across someone who was interested in the restored gospel. It's completely a numbers game. It was amazing it really worked. The more we preached the word and were ignored, the more people we found who were AMAZINGLY VERY INTERESTED and were subsequently baptized, IN A BUDDHIST DOMINATED COUNTRY. It never ceased to amaze me. It was VERY exiting to see the EXTREME joy on their faces. Their faces would light up like no other.

IT WAS AMAZING and very rewarding !!

It's all about spreading light and truth and dispelling the lies.

That's what RF is about RELIGIOUS EDUCATION, it might as well be the RIGHT education. No need to continue posting things that aren't true, the King James being in error in so many blatant and subtle areas.

When the King James states, "God is a spirit," that is a blatant error purposely made by one evil man somewhere between the time the scripture was revealed until the time it was commissioned by King James to be translated into English.

Do me a favor Katzpur and look up that scripture (John 4: 24) in your LDS edition of the King James and see if there's a JST footnote that corrects this error, "God is a spirit," and let me know if there is any correction.

If there is no correction, then the LDS edition of the King James is in error, if they didn't print a JST correction.

John 4: 24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is not a spirit, he is an immortal man, "having a body of flesh and bones, as tangible as mans". Joseph Smith

 

[Fish-Hunter]

How about that last part of James chapter 2, how does that fit in with your theology ???

James 2
God hath chosen the poor of this world rich in faith—Salvation gained by keeping the whole law—Faith without works is dead.

Christ will call the halt, lame, blind, poor, etc., to the wedding feast, the rich will be too busy making money, I suppose, to take time out for a nice meal with Christ in his realm of existence.

Joseph Smith was reading James chapter 1 verse 5, in the King James, when he decided to pray about which church he should join. He was told, by Christ personally, after Christ appeared to him, that he should join none of the churches in existance at that time, they were all teaching the doctrines of men, mingled with scripture. The King James is no different, it is contains the doctrines of men, mixed with true scripture. It's a sublte deception that leads men away from exaltation with Christ.

"How to recognize pure religion"

James 1
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God—Resist temptation—Be ye doers of the word—How to recognize pure religion.

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth (criticizes) not; and it shall be given him.


The Lord will not criticize us for asking for help, in knowing the truth, about any given subject, he wants us to be educated in his eternal saving and exalting truths.

James chapter 2 is a wonderful chapter to discuss. I would love to discuss and debate James 2 on the "Bible Revelation" thread. Please post that discussion on the Bible Revelation thread, and we can discuss it there.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

You know, FFH, I'm sure all Latter-day Saints would agree with you that the JST is more accurate than the KJV, but you seriously make it sound as if the KJV is a piece of trash. If that were truly the Church's position, I think we'd hear the General Authorities saying so. According to the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The Church uses many translations of the Bible in various languages. In English, the King James Version is used as the official Bible of the Church." If the Church held the KJV in such low esteem as you apparently do, I doubt it would be "the official Bible of the Church."

Please share with me why the official English translation for the LDS Church is the KJV and not the JST? If God is sovereign, wouldn't He allow your church legal access to the inspired JST version? The KJV and other accepted English translations are not considered inspired, therefore the JST already claims something more than other English translations.

 

[FFH]

Please share with me why the official English translation for the LDS Church is the KJV and not the JST? If God is sovereign, wouldn't He allow your church legal access to the inspired JST version? The KJV and other accepted English translations are not considered inspired, therefore the JST already claims something more than other English translations.

The Lord makes us search truth out.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

The Lord makes us search truth out.

Here's the problem with the LDS presupposition. I think you are saying that The Fullness of Truth cannot be found through the Holy Bible Alone. Instead, God wants you to find truth through the exclusive claims of the Mormon Church because of apostolic sucession (modern day prophets). It is an identical claim to Roman Catholicism's claim of apostolic succession. Both positions leave the Holy Bible to be insufficient and incomplete revleation from God. Do you agree with my conclusions? Are you basically asking me to trust in modern day prophets as being authorative over the Bible alone? The Roman Catholic Church makes the same proclamation, only with a different group of men (Popes instead of modern day prophets).

In addition, if you are claiming that only the Joseph Smith Translation is inspired, then you already have exclusive revelation from all other people who have a Bible. Remember, historic Chrisitans believe that the originals are inspired...but good translations are trustworthy for all things pertaining to life, doctrine and practice. If God is everyone's Heavenly Father, why doesn't he give everyone the Joseph Smith inspired translation as compare to the ones with apparent errors caused by wicked men?

 

[FFH]

Here's the problem with the LDS presupposition. I think you are saying that The Truth cannot be found through the Holy Bible Alone. Instead, God wants you to find truth through the exclusive claims of the Mormon Church because of apostolic sucession (modern day prophets). It is an identical claim to Roman Catholicism's claim of apostolic succession. Both positions leave the Holy Bible to be insufficient and incomplete revleation from God. Do you agree with my conclusions? Are you basically asking me to trust in modern day prpophets as being authorative over the Bible alone?

No, we claim to have the correct authority, which is used in performing the necessary saving and exalting ordinances found in Christ's restored gospel.

Melchizedek Priesthood (restored to earth by Peter, James and John to Joseph Smith)
Aaronic Priesthood (restored to earth by John the Baptist to Joseph Smith)

 

[McBell]

Here's the problem with the LDS presupposition. I think you are saying that The Truth cannot be found through the Holy Bible Alone. Instead, God wants you to find truth through the exclusive claims of the Mormon Church because of apostolic sucession (modern day prophets). It is an identical claim to Roman Catholicism's claim of apostolic succession. Both positions leave the Holy Bible to be insufficient and incomplete revleation from God. Do you agree with my conclusions? Are you basically asking me to trust in modern day prophets as being authorative over the Bible alone? The Roman Catholic Church makes the same proclamation, only with a different group of men (Popes instead of modern day prophets).

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between the "exclusive claims" of the Mormon Church and the "exclusive claims" of Calvinism?

They are both "exclusive claims" so why is your Calvinist "exclusive claims" better/truer than the Mormon "exclusive claims?"

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between the "exclusive claims" of the Mormon Church and the "exclusive claims" of Calvinism?

They are both "exclusive claims" so why is your Calvinist "exclusive claims" better/truer than the Mormon "exclusive claims?"

What are the exclusive claims of Calvinism? Being a Calvinist is not God's requirment to be a regenerate Christian.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

No, we claim to have the correct authority, which is used in performing the necessary saving and exalting ordinances found in Christ's restored gospel.

Melchizedek Priesthood (restored to earth by Peter, James and John to Joseph Smith)
Aaronic Priesthood (restored to earth by John the Baptist to Joseph Smith)

Can we at least agree that the battle is for final authority? How does God speak to us authoratively?

 

[McBell]

Being a Calvinist is not God's requirment to be a regenerate Christian.

And who claims that being an LDS is?

 

[Halcyon]

I think if I were LDS I would have stopped responding to these sort of threads long ago, and stuck with answering genuine questions in the DIR.
Why do you guys keep slogging on? Why not just link 'em to one of the (does quick count) 4,379 threads on the exact same questions that already exist?

 

[FFH]

Can we at least agree that the battle is for final authority? How does God speak to us authoratively?

The Melchizedek Priesthood is the power to act in the name of God, I have this priesthood, which has been passed down from father to son, and can be linked to the first modern day earthly bearer of this sacred priesthood, that being Joseph Smith, who received it from Peter, James and John.

I have the same priesthood as Peter, James and John, given to them by Christ, who received it from his Father, our Heavenly Father.

The power to act in the name of our Heavenly Father has been restored to earth once again. Without this priesthood, no one will live with God the Father.

Hands were layed upon my head, by my father, and I was given the Aaronic Priesthood, then later the Melchizedek Priesthood, the same priesthoods that Joseph Smith received.

Peter, James and John, laying hands on Joseph Smith, restoring the Melchizedek Priesthood to earth once again

Melchizedek Priesthood Restoration


John the Baptist laying hands on Joseph Smith, restoring the Aaronic Priesthood, necessary for Baptism in the LDS faith

John the Baptist Conferring the Aaronic Priesthood

 

[FFH]

I think if I were LDS I would have stopped responding to these sort of threads long ago, and stuck with answering genuine questions in the DIR.
Why do you guys keep slogging on? Why not just link 'em to one of the (does quick count) 4,379 threads on the exact same questions that already exist?

I don't think you'll find another thread quite like this one.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

The Melchizedek Priesthood is the power to act in the name of God, I have this priesthood, which has been passed down from father to son, and can be linked to the first modern day earthly bearer of this sacred priesthood, that being Joseph Smith, who received it from Peter, James and John.

I have the same priesthood as Peter, James and John, given to them by Christ, who received it from his Father, our Heavenly Father.

The power to act in the name of our Heavenly Father has been restored to earth once again. Without this priesthood, no one will live with God the Father.

Hands were layed upon my head, by my father and I was given the Aaronic and then later the Melchizedek Priesthood, the same priesthoods that Joseph Smith received.

Peter, James and John, laying hands on Joseph Smith, restoring the Melchizedek Priesthood to earth once again

Melchizedek Priesthood Restoration


John the Baptist laying hands on Joseph Smith, restoring the Aaronic Priesthood, necessary for Baptism in the LDS faith

John the Baptist Conferring the Aaronic Priesthood

What makes this more authorative than Matthew 16, Peter being the rock creating the Roman Catholic Magestrium? At least the Roman Catholic claim to exclusive authority is found within the Holy Bible. You are giving me an account that is not found in the Bible. Anyone can and do make similar claims of authority as what the Mormon Church is claiming. Here is the foundation for Roman Catholicism.

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ - Mat 16

13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock [2] I will build my church, and the gates of hell [3] shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed [4] in heaven.” 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

 

[FFH]

What makes this more authorative than Matthew 16, Peter being the rock creating the Roman Catholic Magestrium?

The Vatican claims God's authority, which any church can claim, not being of any literal authority from Christ or his apostles.

We claim literal authority given to us by resurrected beings; John the Baptist, Peter, James and John.

We have a unique claim that requires faith to believe that these events actually happened, which I can assure you they did.

"Without faith it is impossible to please God".

Messenger of Saint Anthony - St. Peter's Basilica Turns 500

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Do you understand the historical Protestant position in refuting the authorative claims of Rome and Salt Lake City? Please post my anwer to you.