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LDS Beliefs and the Bible (6 Discussions)
- Thread starter FFH
- Start date
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
These are nice graphics, but is the Mormon gospel true? According to the Bible alone, the LDS gospel is a false gospel.
Post 1053 from LDS Beliefs and the Bible thread by a relative of Joseph Smith.
"I cannot back up the LDS faith using the Bible alone. Let's not even go there". - FFH
FFH
Veteran Member
The King James Bible gives clues, as to it's gross distortion, when compared with the Joseph Smith inspired version.
I'm pointing out the parts that are missing, in the King James, by filling in the blanks.
Take it or leave it.
You can take a distorted Bible and make a religion out of it, but it will be just that, a distorted broken religion, with many missing parts.
Life with God requires more than what the King James Bible informs us of, many of Christ's saving and exalting doctrines are missing.
Much more information is needed, which can only be found in the completely restored Bible (Joseph Smith Inspired Version), the Book of Mormon, and modern day sacred revealed scripture (Doctrine and Covenants).
Scriptures
Many plain and precious things have been taken out of the Bible
Word Search: plain and precious things
Also see these links. I'm posting these sciptures from the Book of Mormon from the RLDS site because they're easier to post, they are the same as the LDS version, the verse numbers being the only difference.
1 Nephi 3:171 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God (The Bible);
1 Nephi 3:172 And after these plain and precious things were taken away, it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles:
1 Nephi 3:174 Thou seest because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God;
1 Nephi 3:192 And the angel spake unto me, saying, These last records which thou hast seen among the Gentiles shall establish the truth of the first, which are of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them;
FFH
Veteran Member
Intermission...
Sara Groves ~ You Are the Sun
There is an alternative lifestyle...
Beauty Of Grace - Krystal Meyers
A bright light in a darkened world
Krystal Meyers - Hallelujah
Sara Groves ~ You Are the Sun
There is an alternative lifestyle...
Beauty Of Grace - Krystal Meyers
A bright light in a darkened world
Krystal Meyers - Hallelujah
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
Would you agree that the Mormon Faith is grounded on the doctrine that God could not secure His biblical revelation to mankind for all eternity? I think you are implying God is so weak and anemic, that He could not protect His biblical revelation for even two generations, correct? Therefore, your church has to teach that God is not sovereign over Satan and evil men. So, what prevents evil men and Satan from distoring the apparent modern revelation claimed by the LDS Faith? Again, the Book of Mormon is used to validate your faith, and not the Holy Bible. The Book of Mormon undermines the Holy Bible and nullifies God's revelation of Holy Scripture. Why do you think the Bible is called the Holy Bible?
FFH
Veteran Member
The Lord allowed these "plain and precious" things to be taken from the Bible, because he has hidden them from the world.
"Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you".
Halcyon
Lord of the Badgers
Have you actually read any of the Book of Mormon?
I've read arguments from people of my POV (i.e. that the BoM is the product of man) suggesting that the BoM is so similar to the Bible as to infringe on copyright (were such a thing to apply to the Bible).
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
I've read parts of the Book of Mormon and the Quran. After my partial reading of both books, I didn't need to read anymore of the two books because of the obvious contradiction they had with the Holy Bible. Since I have been reading the Bible for a long time, it's frustating for me to see the Mormons use the Bible as if they actually believe what is written is true. If the Mormons believe that their faith is built upon the Holy Bible, let's talk about it....doctrine by doctrine. I also want to be enlighten by others in regards to biblical truth...because we all know in part. However, I only use the Bible to determine truth, and not extra-biblical revelation like the Book of Mormon or the Quran.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
God does not take away our free-agency. It was man who chose to deny God. it was mankind that perverted the doctrines and broke the everlasting covenant. This is the dispensation of the fullness of times. This is God's last attempt to harvest mankind.
Why should he when people rejected him? evil men seek power and fame and fortune at others expense.
He has tried many times, every dispensation, bringing a new prophet with more revelation. Adam, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joseph, Elijah, Nephi, Alma, Mormon, Jospeh Smith.
All were rejected by mankind for thier own pleasures and desires.
The Holy Ghost, Pristhood, Jesus christ. Men are indeed falliable and susceptible to temptation, but this is the final and great work of the Lord for this earth. This is the last time he attempts to graft the olive trees to bring forth good fruit, and if they do not bring forth good fruit they will be hewn down and cast into the fire.
You are grossly wrong in this pathetic attempt of rhetoric. The Book of Mormon means nothign without the Bible. nor does the Bible mean anythign without the book of Mormon, Both working in concert bring to pass the true and everlasting gospel. plain and precious things are once again restored to the world.
how does the book of Mormon undermine the Bible?
the Book of Mormon was brought forth by the hand of God to build it up.
You know nothing of the marvelous works of God. you don't even know who God is.
Acts:17
you, just as the corrupt saints of the old testament ignorantly worship God.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
You cannot use the bible as common ground unfortunately. Because each person will interpit the same scriptural passage differently as to destory all confidence in anyone's interpitation. unfortunately if the bible was so clear and plain then we would not even be having this discussion.
From my interpitations of the Bible i can fully support LDS doctrine Soley from the Holy Bible - King James Version.
But you will not see it that way, you will only **** and moan about your own interpitations and we will get nowhere.
OK, I'm new here, so I don't know if this is the right place to post the question, "Are Mormons Christians?"
I was raised Lutheran, became a practicing Catholic, and currently am not attending church.
But my understanding is that Mormons believe that they can become gods of another planet in the afterlife, and that God that we worship was once a man. Isn't this at odds with the basic Christian belief in one God?
I was raised Lutheran, became a practicing Catholic, and currently am not attending church.
But my understanding is that Mormons believe that they can become gods of another planet in the afterlife, and that God that we worship was once a man. Isn't this at odds with the basic Christian belief in one God?
FFH
Veteran Member
So then please explain these scripture if you're so sure that there is; always has been; and always will be; only one God. We know of two gods spoken of in scipture; God the Father and God the Son. Many will become gods in the next life, having done all that was required of them.
Psalms 82: 1, 6
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
• • •
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10: 34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
madhatter85
Transhumanist
no, we believe in one god, our God the Eternal father, and in his Son Jesus Christ and in the holy Ghost.
This makes up the Godhead, 3 distinct individual personages that work together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of Man.
God the Father and Jesus christ each have physical bodies of flesh and bone, perfected and glorified. the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit which allows him the ability to dwell within us and testify of truth.
we believe that jsut as a child grows up to be like it's parents so will we be able to return to live with our father in heaven and become joint-heirs with Christ, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I don't think you understand Mormonism anywhere near as well as you think you do, Leslie. If you have questions, though, there is an LDS sub-forum where you can ask them. I have a hunch that you've been getting your information about Mormonism from non-Mormons. If you wanted to learn about Judaism, would you ask a Muslim to explain it to you? Go to the people who believe and practice the religion if you want accurate information, not to their enemies. (Welcome to RF, by the way.
)I don't think you understand Mormonism anywhere near as well as you think you do, Leslie. If you have questions, though, there is an LDS sub-forum where you can ask them. I have a hunch that you've been getting your information about Mormonism from non-Mormons. If you wanted to learn about Judaism, would you ask a Muslim to explain it to you? Go to the people who believe and practice the religion if you want accurate information, not to their enemies. (Welcome to RF, by the way.
Muslims and non-mormons are the enemies of Judaism and Mormons?
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
I don't think you understand Mormonism anywhere near as well as you think you do, Leslie. If you have questions, though, there is an LDS sub-forum where you can ask them. I have a hunch that you've been getting your information about Mormonism from non-Mormons. If you wanted to learn about Judaism, would you ask a Muslim to explain it to you? Go to the people who believe and practice the religion if you want accurate information, not to their enemies. (Welcome to RF, by the way.
Hi Leslie,
Thank you for your wonderful posting and speaking the truth in love. I believe FFH's thread of "LDS Beliefs and the Bible - six discussions" represents the Mormon story. The best way to discern and test what the Mormon Church teaches is to compare it to the Holy Bible. Welcome to Religious Forums! I hope you stick around and continue to share the truth in love. I have found the official LDS website to be helpful too.
Mormon.org - The Great Apostasy
In Christ Jesus,
Fish-Hunter
1 Thessalonians 5:21:
Test everything. Hold on to the good.
1 John 4 - Test the Spirits
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Orontes
Master of the Horse
Hi Leslie,
Mormons do believe they can become gods, though there are no notions of personal planets in Mormon thought. Deification or theosis as a base principle has been the position of historical Christianity. The only major exception would be within various segments of Protestantism. I'll give you some examples. You mentioned you were Catholic. Theosis is found in the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church (CRCC) though it often doesn't usually receive the same stress as in the Greek Christian Traditions:
-" The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods." -CRCC 460
Theosis is the central purpose of life as taught in all the Greek and Oriental Christian Traditions which are arguably the oldest forms of Christianity. This includes, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity, the Armenian Church etc.
One example from Eastern Orthodox teaching:
-"First, deification is not something reserved for a few select initiates, but something intended for all alike. The Orthodox Church believes it is the normal goal for every Christian without exception." -Bishop Kallistos (author of "The Orthodox Church")
Here are a few examples from Christian antiquity:
-"The Logos of God, Jesus Christ our Lord . . . was made that which we are, in order that he might perfect us to be what he is. - Irenaeus, Haer. 4.33.4
-"We were not made gods at our beginning, but first we were made men, then, in the end, gods" -Irenaeus ""
-"Those who have been perfected are given their reward and their honors. They have done with their purification, they have done with the rest of their service, though it be a holy service, with the holy; now they become pure in heart, and because of their close intimacy with the Lord there awaits them a restoration to eternal contemplation; and they have received the title of "gods" since they are destined to be enthroned with the other "gods" who are ranked next below the savior" -Clement of Alexandria, 'Stromata 7:10'
-" Therefore He was not man, and then became God, but He was God, and then became man, and that to deify us." -Athanasius, Against the Arians, 1.39
-"But He himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying He makes sons of God. For He has given them power to become the sons of God, (John 1:12). If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods." -Augustine, On the Psalms, 50:2.
FFH
Veteran Member
Careful, this post sounds like you're calling our past and present prophets false prophets, which I'm entirely sure you are. Remember, you're actually calling one of my relatives a liar. I count it all as gain, in Christ Jesus. Your opposition affords me a greater resolve to defend my position.
I'll counter your scripture with this one...
I think this is entirely appropriate to post in this case.
Isaiah 5: 20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
2 Nephi 15: 20 (Book of Mormon)
Wo unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!