LDS, JW, SDA, other?

[Bishka]

I can't. He's dead. He did not, however, claim to have personally seen and spoken to God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. If you can point me to some evidence to the contrary, I will be glad to read it.

There isn't, I've read the wikipedia page on Mr. Taze and it speaks of a man who had doctrinal differences and that was about it.

 

[rocka21]

There isn't, I've read the wikipedia page on Mr. Taze and it speaks of a man who had doctrinal differences and that was about it.

He claimed no special revelation or vision to authenticate any of his teachings. He is not viewed as divine; he is certainly not a prophet or a saviour figure, and he claimed no special authority on his own behalf.
Charles taze russel


sorry becky, i stand corrected!

see, if i just do some reading, i learn some things.

 

[Bishka]

they both wrote new scriptures after they were visited by " angels"

What new scriptures do the Jehovah's Witnesses have? As far as I can tell, they do not, they have just translated them differently. That is a big difference.

 

[rocka21]

What new scriptures do the Jehovah's Witnesses have? As far as I can tell, they do not, they have just translated them differently. That is a big difference.

correct.

 

[FFH]

Didn't realize this guy was the founder of the "Watch Tower".

I used to thumb through it when customers/JW's would offer it to us at work.

I liked the articles concerning the many end time signs, like ozone layer depletion and global warming, earthquake frequency increases, increases in size and frequency of floods, droughts, tornados, hurricanes, etc. etc..

Charles Taze Russell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[rocka21]

Didn't realize this guy was the founder of the "Watch Tower".

I used to thumb through it when customers/JW's would offer it to us at work.

I liked the articles concerning the many end time signs, like ozone layer depletion and global warming, earthquake frequency increases, etc. etc..

Charles Taze Russell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

my uncle and his family are JW. They would not come to my wedding because they " would not step foot in my church". but they came to the reception and got the free food!

my dad ( his brother) is a devout catholic. i Love when they get together and talk about the faith.

 

[FFH]

There is good and truth in almost all of the religions of the world, we as Latter-day Saints just claim to have the most truth and ALL the necessary ordinances for salvation and the rights to the priesthood (power of God on earth) which is required to perform all the necessary saving ordinances..

 

[FFH]

my uncle and his family are JW. They would not come to my wedding because they " would not step foot in my church". but they came to the reception and got the free food!

Funny, yeah I know a JW personally and he is way cool, I have sort of a nice bike/motorcycle and he is the only one I've ever let ride it. He always seemed hard up form money, but he finally got a good job and makes booku bucks now. Cool guy, we had a lot in common...He said he had attended a huge JW convention somewhere, can't remember where, but they train most of their members there. He had long blonde hair just so you can get a pictiure of this dude...Not your typical JW I wouldn't think, or maybe that religion attracts people like that, more free spirited folk. His idea of a good time was to go 200 plus miles an hour on a bullet bike or 50 plus miles an hour on a pedal road bike behind a diesel truck on the freeway going downhill..

my dad ( his brother) is a devout catholic. i Love when they get together and talk about the faith.

Yeah, the JW''s are FUN to talk to in my opinion, when I was just fresh of my LDS mission in Japan they were the first ones to knock on my door and we had a great conversation...

They asked, "when do you think Jesus Christ is coming to earth", this was 1987 when they were asking this, and I said hmmm I don't know but I would guess around the year 2000, and they said we think so to but your neighbors don't think that's the case.

I went on to say I think he's coming sooner than we think, they also agreed. I actually felt the spirit with these two..

They are special people in my opinion, May, who posts here has a special spirit about her, assuming she is female...which many JW's are, at least the ones I've seen usually go out in female pairs...especially in Japan..

There were tons of them going in female pairs in Japan, they covered more territory, going door to door, than we did...

They were really a strong force in Japan...

They even layed hands on one of our missionaries, who had a broken his leg or foot, and he was instantly healed...the Japanese, tho, in general, had enough child-like faith like that for that sor of thing to happen...

Like I said before almost all religions have truth and good in them and are necessary for the salvation of men, because we are all at different levels of acceptance of the eternal truth's of God...

 

[may]

Their Modern Development and Growth link about Jehovahs witnesses

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

How do Mormons respond to the SDA claim that their modern-day founder, Ellen G. White, was a prophetess who received visions from God?

 

[Bishka]

How do Mormons respond to the SDA claim that their modern-day founder, Ellen G. White, was a prophetess who received visions from God?

As far as I understand, the official position is that it is a 'no-go' for her; but perhaps one of the other members can elaborate on that.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

As far as I understand, the official position is that it is a 'no-go' for her; but perhaps one of the other members can elaborate on that.

A "no-go" meaning that you don't believe she actually received visions from God? Why is the Mormon claim that Joseph Smith saw a vision more believable than that of Ellen White and the SDAs?

 

[Bishka]

A "no-go" meaning that you don't believe she actually received visions from God?

Honestly, I haven't given it much thought.

Why is the Mormon claim that Joseph Smith saw a vision more believable than that of Ellen White and the SDAs?

You would feel the same about Virgin Mary appearances in relation to Joseph Smith and others would you not?

 

[Polaris]

A "no-go" meaning that you don't believe she actually received visions from God? Why is the Mormon claim that Joseph Smith saw a vision more believable than that of Ellen White and the SDAs?

I honestly don't know much about Ellen White. What kind of revelations did she receive? Did she claim that God commissioned her to restore the church? Did she claim to receive some sort of priesthood authority to officiate in the affairs of Christ's church?

One issue I would potentially have with this senario is that Ellen was a woman. While women are indeed entitled to guidance from God and personal revelation, they have never been authorized to hold the priesthood and officiate in the general governing of Christ's church. I'm not saying that it would be impossible for it to happen, but it definitely doesn't follow the precedence set by the Bible.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

You would feel the same about Virgin Mary appearances in relation to Joseph Smith and others would you not?

I might, although Marian appearances have always supported the extant teachings of Christ and His Church, they have never suggested that new teachings need to be brought in or that the Church has universally Apostasized.
However, that's not really the point of this thread, which is for Restorationist viewpoints to be compared and debated. Thus why I ask for the Mormon position.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

I honestly don't know much about Ellen White. What kind of revelations did she receive? Did she claim that God commissioned her to restore the church? Did she claim to receive some sort of priesthood authority to officiate in the affairs of Christ's church?

I just looked at this SDA site, and it says this under Beliefs:

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Under another site about the life of White:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]At an Ohio funeral service held on a Sunday afternoon in March, 1858, in the Lovett's Grove (now Bowling Green) public school, a vision of the ages-long conflict between Christ and His angels and Satan and his angels was given to Mrs. White. Two days later Satan attempted to take her life, that she might not present to others what had been revealed to her. Sustained, however, by God in doing the work entrusted to her, she wrote out a description of the scenes that had been presented to her, and the 219-page book Spiritual Gifts, volume 1, The Great Controversy Between Christ and His Angels and Satan and His Angels, was published in the summer of 1858. The volume was well received and highly prized because of its clear picture of the contending forces in the great conflict, touching high points of the struggle but dealing more fully with the closing scenes of this earth's history. (See Early Writings, pp. 133-295.[/FONT]

[/FONT]

 

[Polaris]

I just looked at this SDA site, and it says this under Beliefs:



Under another site about the life of White:

While I believe she was perfectly entitled to receiving visions, that doesn't mean that she was authorized to establish doctrinally binding doctrines and restore or govern the church of Christ. That must be done through the channels of the priesthood.

Thanks for the links though. You've peeked my curiosity, I'll do a little research.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

While I believe she was perfectly entitled to receiving visions, that doesn't mean that she was authorized to establish doctrinally binding doctrines and restore or govern the church of Christ. That must be done through the channels of the priesthood.

It looks like the SDAs are Sola Scripturists, so their final authority is always going to be the Bible above White's visions, nor did White ever "govern" the Church, from what it appears.
As for the priesthood, it sounds like the LDS are the only ones among the Restorationists that believe one is necessary. Why do you believe that is, and from where do you derive that belief? (other than JS told you so, of course)

 

[Polaris]

Why do you believe that is, and from where do you derive that belief? (other than JS told you so, of course)

To be honest I'm shocked that none of the other restorationist believe the priesthood is important. It seems clear to me from both the OT and NT that priesthood authority is one of the critical elements of Christ's church and God's covenant people. As you well know Peter and the apostles received the keys of the kingdom, clearly in reference to governing prieshood authority. Christ and the apostles called men to various specific offices of authority because the priesthood is an integral part of the ministering within Christ's church.

 

[may]

Jesus is the great high priest, and Jesus true followers have been set free in a spiritual way from Babylon the great, and true worship has been retored.
Jesus and the apostles foretold that true worship would be corrupted and lost. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30) After the apostolic age, Christendom arose. Her clergymen adopted pagan teachings and practices. They also made approach to God all but impossible, painting him as an incomprehensible Trinity and teaching people to confess to priests and to pray to Mary and various "saints" instead of to Jehovah. Now, after many centuries of such corruption, what has Jehovah done? In the midst of today’s world—a world that is choked with religious falsehood and befouled with ungodly practices—he has stepped in and restored pure worship! this restoration is one of the most important developments in modern times.